Solutions for a balanced bracket

[Goohd]

Chaos bolt is a guaranteed crit. I don't remember it hitting on the 900s. I think chaos bolt is fine, with the long cast time, there's more than enough time to try to line/interrupt/cc it to stop that damage. Getting it off sure is rewarding.

I used Roar of Sacrifice. Damn what a nice ability yet no one ever mentions it

 

[Fael]

I used Roar of Sacrifice. Damn what a nice ability yet no one ever mentions it

It's still 100% guaranteed a crit. but the damage will decrease since the damage is increased by crit. Essentially denounce RoS reduces crit chance by a large number, but chaos bolt ALWAYS crit and overrides RoS denounce. The damage is decreased however.

 

[Kincaide]

Yeah still F2P but anyway, how does my point not make sense then? If it's mostly F2P I see, and they are all OP specs then how is the criticism of "be the change you want to be" misplaced? If everyone but the p2ps played balanced classes 6 out of 7 games would be amazing..

I agree with you completely about the idea of being the change you want to see. My only objection was that your statement came across as being directed exclusively at F2Ps as if they were the only ones "guilty" (if you can call it that) of playing OP specs. You've since made it clear that that wasn't your intent, so I've retracted my objection.

 

[Shaket]

Please take this to PMs so that nobody is inclined to comment on your clearly private conversation on this clearly public forum.

 

[willix]

How on earth could F2Ps move onto a different bracket?

Clearly I was talking about the ones who claim to also have an account they paid for, and the 'other bracket' could be the new level 100 bracket.

An expansion just came out, you know.

 

[Holypowah]

ret doesnt hit "like a truck" (like FB from a feral) but rets have the highest sustainable dmg combined with incredible strong heals.. the reason rets got very strong heals in cata to mop was because they didnt have this high dmg(except every x minutes with all cds)

Burst damage > sustainable damage in this bracket.

Ret should get a good healing nerf but crapping on it's dps will destroy the class.

 

[Holypowah]

1. Ferals need huge nerfs. Mangle damage needs to be dropped 20%, FB needs to be dropped 30%, Rake should not stun if fucking ROGUES don't even get a stun out of their opener. Nothing like eating the only opener stun in the bracket, getting hit by the hardest hitting spammable damage in the bracket (Mangle) into the hardest hitting ability in the bracket (Ferocious Bite). And they can run away, instant root, heal themselves... on and on and on.

2. Rend needs a nerf, white damage on warriors needs to be dropped 20% (200-400 white hits).

3. HPal and RDruid healing needs to be stronger. HPal especially. WoG is 100% useless. Ret is a better healer at this point..

4. Warlocks and Mages are the only two classes with any form of spammable CC. The two of them together are basically unstoppable unless you one shot one of their team with a feral or ret/warrior or something. Warlocks have 2 CC's to most of the brackets 0. That's just dumb. Add in belf versions of these and the team stacks up 6 CC's to most teams having maybe 1-2. Either everyone should have some form of CC or no one should.

5. MOST IMPORTANTLY: F2P need to learn to stop being scum and rolling only the most OP shit. Lil and I are the only big name hunters that I see still consistently playing our hunters. The rest of you play rets, ferals, monks and warriors. You can't bitch about 29s if that's all you do. Arena games would be a lot better if everyone wasn't an OP as hell spec.

Warriors are the weakest class 1v1 and die so easily it's not even funny. The only way to not die in like 5 seconds as a warrior is to go prot, with shield slam doing a whopping 30 damage.

Hell, if you really want to nerf warrior's damage, give them more survivability (second wind) and pummel earlier won't hurt.

Hell, I'll take slam over rend any day btw.

 

[Activate]

Warriors are the weakest class 1v1 and die so easily it's not even funny. The only way to not die in like 5 seconds as a warrior is to go prot, with shield slam doing a whopping 30 damage.

Hell, if you really want to nerf warrior's damage, give them more survivability (second wind) and pummel earlier won't hurt.

Hell, I'll take slam over rend any day btw.

Kill them faster special friend.

 

[Kincaide]

Burst damage > sustainable damage in this bracket.

Do you think that's really true, now in the MoP era where we have such larger health pools? There's nothing more embarrassing as a burst dps class than to open on some guy, blow everything you have on him, and only get him down to 1/3 health and he runs off and heals up and smooshes you because you've used your cooldowns.

 

[Fael]

Warriors are the weakest class 1v1 and die so easily it's not even funny. The only way to not die in like 5 seconds as a warrior is to go prot, with shield slam doing a whopping 30 damage.

Hell, if you really want to nerf warrior's damage, give them more survivability (second wind) and pummel earlier won't hurt.

Hell, I'll take slam over rend any day btw.

Why is everyone only looking at 1 v 1 scenarios? Bgs and arenas are team fights, and warriors are there to spread damage and execute enemies when they're low on health. That's just how warriors are in this expansion. Rend is ridiculous, and use it while it's still here.

 

[AirplaneGlue]

2. Rend needs a nerf, white damage on warriors needs to be dropped 20% (200-400 white hits).

3. HPal and RDruid healing needs to be stronger. HPal especially. WoG is 100% useless. Ret is a better healer at this point..

4. Warlocks and Mages are the only two classes with any form of spammable CC. The two of them together are basically unstoppable unless you one shot one of their team with a feral or ret/warrior or something. Warlocks have 2 CC's to most of the brackets 0. That's just dumb. Add in belf versions of these and the team stacks up 6 CC's to most teams having maybe 1-2. Either everyone should have some form of CC or no one should.

Druids are just a dumb class of this game levels 10-100.

hope you aren't on something when you said rdruids need buffs. Those guys are pushing out 1000 regrowth and stupid increased crit Most braindead and effective healer.


restoration druid ever since mop its the same homo class like cata mop hunter. Braindead and extremely effective to the point where it cant really be beat.3k FB from a resto druid and retarded instant heals that are better than anything but disc shield yeah

warriors are garbage and some classes can't so anything at certain levels why even mention them feral vs warrior for example that's like saying a 20 warlock with skill can counter an average feral or ret paladin, it just cant happen

bring your warrior ill bring my feral

 

[AirplaneGlue]

these threads saying warrior is OP and warlock CC is so op they are suddenly on par with druids

I think its just a conspiracy of trolls designed specifically to make clueless noobs reroll warlock while those trolls and others like alliance reroll eyepatch druids and own the warlocks in a ferocious bite

 

[Kincaide]

Druids are just a fucking cancer class of this game levels 10-100.

hope you aren't on something when you said rdruids need buffs. Those cocks@#cers are pushing out 1000 regrowth and stupid increased crit Most braindead and effective healer.


restoration druid ever since mop its the same homo class like cata mop hunter. Braindead and extremely effective to the point where it cant really be beat.3k FB from a resto druid and retarded instant heals that are better than anything but disc shield yeah

warriors are garbage and some classes can't so anything at certain levels why even mention them feral vs warrior for example that's like saying a 20 warlock with skill can counter an average feral or ret paladin, it just cant happen

bring your warrior ill bring my feral

I play resto druid a lot, and I don't get 1000hp regrowths and I certainly don't get 3k bites.

 

[Bop]

Druids are just a fucking cancer class of this game levels 10-100.

hope you aren't on something when you said rdruids need buffs. Those cocks@#cers are pushing out 1000 regrowth and stupid increased crit Most braindead and effective healer.


restoration druid ever since mop its the same homo class like cata mop hunter. Braindead and extremely effective to the point where it cant really be beat.3k FB from a resto druid and retarded instant heals that are better than anything but disc shield yeah

warriors are garbage and some classes can't so anything at certain levels why even mention them feral vs warrior for example that's like saying a 20 warlock with skill can counter an average feral or ret paladin, it just cant happen

bring your warrior ill bring my feral

Why do I have an overwhelming feeling that you don't win many F2P skirmishes?

Probably because you don't. Your analysis of the problems in the bracket is very inaccurate and telling to anyone who reads it that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Restoration Druids are broken right now because of their ability to hold onto a burst threat with CP's (and not land a 3k bite, by the way - that's a gross exaggeration; the damage is far closer to 2000, which is still overpowering but far less absurd compared to what you suggest). Their healing is very under-powered right now. If you think F2P Rdruids are getting 1k Regrowth critical strikes, you are either exaggerating or ignorant of the facts.

Please spend 5 minutes doing some basic research on healer scaling before you make a fool of yourself on the forums.

Regrowth

Healing Surge

Flash Heal

Enveloping Mist

The fact that you are comparing classes as if they are dueling is also very telling. Duels are a very small, unimportant part of WoW's PvP structure, which mostly entails team-play and superior coordination. To somehow promote duels as the only important gauge of classes' PvP viability makes me think you are quite inexperienced.

I would gladly 2v2 you as Warrior/Healer versus any F2P comp you want to bring - Feral or otherwise. I am quite certain that you are a big mouth with nothing to back it. Give me a time and a server on US, and I will come form you and your partner and wargame against you.

~ Bop of Mok'nathal

P.S. I also love how you immediately discount any of the (vastly more experienced) voices speaking about how to balance the bracket as a conspiracy. I have some beach-front property in Nevada to sell to you.

 

[Kristhoper]

Why do I have an overwhelming feeling that you don't win many F2P skirmishes?

Probably because you don't. Your analysis of the problems in the bracket is very inaccurate and telling to anyone who reads it that you have no clue what you are talking about.

Restoration Druids are broken right now because of their ability to hold onto a burst threat with CP's (and not land a 3k bite, by the way - that's a gross exaggeration; the damage is far closer to 2000, which is still overpowering but far less absurd compared to what you suggest). Their healing is very under-powered right now. If you think F2P Rdruids are getting 1k Regrowth critical strikes, you are either exaggerating or ignorant of the facts.

Please spend 5 minutes doing some basic research on healer scaling before you make a fool of yourself on the forums.

Regrowth

Healing Surge

Flash Heal

Enveloping Mist

The fact that you are comparing classes as if they are dueling is also very telling. Duels are a very small, unimportant part of WoW's PvP structure, which mostly entails team-play and superior coordination. To somehow promote duels as the only important gauge of classes' PvP viability makes me think you are quite inexperienced.

I would gladly 2v2 you as Warrior/Healer versus any F2P comp you want to bring - Feral or otherwise. I am quite certain that you are a big mouth with nothing to back it. Give me a time and a server on US, and I will come form you and your partner and wargame against you.

~ Bop of Mok'nathal

P.S. I also love how you immediately discount any of the (vastly more experienced) voices speaking about how to balance the bracket as a conspiracy. I have some beach-front property in Nevada to sell to you.

Please do stream [MENTION=18826]Bop[/MENTION] would like to see some good plays from you guys vs em ferals

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Holypowah]

Why is everyone only looking at 1 v 1 scenarios? Bgs and arenas are team fights, and warriors are there to spread damage and execute enemies when they're low on health. That's just how warriors are in this expansion. Rend is ridiculous, and use it while it's still here.

You do realise that when a warrior and let's say....a priest/shaman whatever fight classes that can heal (say ret pally/enhance/druid) back to back, they're at a severe disadvantage? The other two that can off heal can easily support each other back to back while the warrior is unable to heal their partner. Therefore, the two off healers could target the only healer and decimate him, leaving the warrior "left 4 dead."

I'm not trying to say that classes that can't heal are bad in this bracket.

Alright, let's see.

Hunter- extreme cc, good interrupts and above average damage. While they cannot heal, they can easily escape and los.

Rogue- stealth, high burst damage with interrupt lockout. Survivability not as good as hunters but they make up for that due to their surprise and they can re stealth.

3v3 the warrior does better but still not great.

Battlegrounds, while they do not pop as frequent have 1v1 as a pretty big part of their structure. Especially when you don't have a good/cooperate team, you could be the lone FC trying to save the day and get ambushed by *insert class*.

Or you could be that guard at GM that instead of engaging the lone inc enemy, you are forced to run away, or die. Unless you are amazingly good or the enemy is under geared/bad, you're gonna lose.

True, rend is good, but unless it's used on a non healing class, it's merely an annoyance 80% of the time and could be easily healed. Slam, on the other hand dealt a ton of damage in a short amount of time, putting way more pressure on the enemy.

Nerfing warriors in any shape or form will utterly destroy the class.

They don't have survivability.

They don't have lockouts.

They have some cc; a slow costing rage and charge interrupt.

They do mediocre damage, but rend is not as useful as some may think. By nerfing their damage, you are destroying the only thing they can do.

 

[Fael]

You do realise that when a warrior and let's say....a priest/shaman whatever fight classes that can heal (say ret pally/enhance/druid) back to back, they're at a severe disadvantage? The other two that can off heal can easily support each other back to back while the warrior is unable to heal their partner. Therefore, the two off healers could target the only healer and decimate him, leaving the warrior "left 4 dead."

I'm not trying to say that classes that can't heal are bad in this bracket.

Alright, let's see.

Hunter- extreme cc, good interrupts and above average damage. While they cannot heal, they can easily escape and los.

Rogue- stealth, high burst damage with interrupt lockout. Survivability not as good as hunters but they make up for that due to their surprise and they can re stealth.

3v3 the warrior does better but still not great.

Battlegrounds, while they do not pop as frequent have 1v1 as a pretty big part of their structure. Especially when you don't have a good/cooperate team, you could be the lone FC trying to save the day and get ambushed by *insert class*.

Or you could be that guard at GM that instead of engaging the lone inc enemy, you are forced to run away, or die. Unless you are amazingly good or the enemy is under geared/bad, you're gonna lose.

True, rend is good, but unless it's used on a non healing class, it's merely an annoyance 80% of the time and could be easily healed. Slam, on the other hand dealt a ton of damage in a short amount of time, putting way more pressure on the enemy.

Nerfing warriors in any shape or form will utterly destroy the class.

They don't have survivability.

They don't have lockouts.

They have some cc; a slow costing rage and charge interrupt.

They do mediocre damage, but rend is not as useful as some may think. By nerfing their damage, you are destroying the only thing they can do.

Warrior/healer is a very good comp in 2s, I don't think you've dived into the skirmishes yourself. Rets/enhance and to an extent feral teams usually fall to arms over the course of a match. These off healers actually oom, especially Ret. I don't disagree at all that if you need their damage they will sub par, that's all they really have, and it's really good damage, the best Dot in f2p. A pseudo-affliction warlock. You saying nerfing their damage, is implying that their damage is actually good. They're not mediocre in the damage department.

The warrior I'm your 2v2 scenario really doesn't have much peels except for counterpressure with it's damage, and with slows in the form of piercing howl/thunder clap. I advise you to queue warrior healer, and let me know the outcome.

 

[Bop]

You do realise that when a warrior and let's say....a priest/shaman whatever fight classes that can heal (say ret pally/enhance/druid) back to back, they're at a severe disadvantage? The other two that can off heal can easily support each other back to back while the warrior is unable to heal their partner. Therefore, the two off healers could target the only healer and decimate him, leaving the warrior "left 4 dead."

I'm not trying to say that classes that can't heal are bad in this bracket.

Alright, let's see.

Hunter- extreme cc, good interrupts and above average damage. While they cannot heal, they can easily escape and los.

Rogue- stealth, high burst damage with interrupt lockout. Survivability not as good as hunters but they make up for that due to their surprise and they can re stealth.

3v3 the warrior does better but still not great.

Battlegrounds, while they do not pop as frequent have 1v1 as a pretty big part of their structure. Especially when you don't have a good/cooperate team, you could be the lone FC trying to save the day and get ambushed by *insert class*.

Or you could be that guard at GM that instead of engaging the lone inc enemy, you are forced to run away, or die. Unless you are amazingly good or the enemy is under geared/bad, you're gonna lose.

True, rend is good, but unless it's used on a non healing class, it's merely an annoyance 80% of the time and could be easily healed. Slam, on the other hand dealt a ton of damage in a short amount of time, putting way more pressure on the enemy.

Nerfing warriors in any shape or form will utterly destroy the class.

They don't have survivability.

They don't have lockouts.

They have some cc; a slow costing rage and charge interrupt.

They do mediocre damage, but rend is not as useful as some may think. By nerfing their damage, you are destroying the only thing they can do.

Dampening.

Warriors destroy most teams in Dampening.

They're monsters in 2's - they're gods in 3's. In fact, in 3v3 no other DPS (not even Ferals) can reach their potential damage.

They're a bulky snare-bot that instantly kills F2Ps below 20% health, and has a devastating DoT and a tick-finale to get them there.

 

[Activate]

You do realise that when a warrior and let's say....a priest/shaman whatever fight classes that can heal (say ret pally/enhance/druid) back to back, they're at a severe disadvantage? The other two that can off heal can easily support each other back to back while the warrior is unable to heal their partner. Therefore, the two off healers could target the only healer and decimate him, leaving the warrior "left 4 dead."

I'm not trying to say that classes that can't heal are bad in this bracket.

Alright, let's see.

Hunter- extreme cc, good interrupts and above average damage. While they cannot heal, they can easily escape and los.

Rogue- stealth, high burst damage with interrupt lockout. Survivability not as good as hunters but they make up for that due to their surprise and they can re stealth.

3v3 the warrior does better but still not great.

Battlegrounds, while they do not pop as frequent have 1v1 as a pretty big part of their structure. Especially when you don't have a good/cooperate team, you could be the lone FC trying to save the day and get ambushed by *insert class*.

Or you could be that guard at GM that instead of engaging the lone inc enemy, you are forced to run away, or die. Unless you are amazingly good or the enemy is under geared/bad, you're gonna lose.

True, rend is good, but unless it's used on a non healing class, it's merely an annoyance 80% of the time and could be easily healed. Slam, on the other hand dealt a ton of damage in a short amount of time, putting way more pressure on the enemy.

Nerfing warriors in any shape or form will utterly destroy the class.

They don't have survivability.

They don't have lockouts.

They have some cc; a slow costing rage and charge interrupt.

They do mediocre damage, but rend is not as useful as some may think. By nerfing their damage, you are destroying the only thing they can do.

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