PTR (SL) PvP Talent Options at Level 20

Bop

Remember the Treeline
DEATH KNIGHT
Blood
Frost
Unholy
DEMON HUNTER
Havoc
Vengeance
DRUID
Balance
Feral
Guardian
Restoration
HUNTER
Beast Mastery
Marksmanship
Survival
MAGE
Arcane
Fire
Frost
MONK
Brewmaster
Mistweaver
Windwalker
PALADIN
Holy
Protection
Retribution
PRIEST
Discipline
Holy
Shadow
ROGUE
Assassination
Outlaw
Subtlety
SHAMAN
Elemental
Enhancement
Restoration
  • [NONE - only Shaman shared talents]
WARLOCK
Affliction
Demonology
Destruction
WARRIOR
Arms
Fury
Protection
 
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Oldspike and I grinded a few dungeons today on the PTR to reach level 20 on our Free to Play characters. We get access to PvP talents at that level, similar to how a level 40 character gets access to them on Live. However, the options are not necessarily the same options that a level 40 would get on live.

There are definitely some exciting options available, but as far as I know there isn't a way to see them all right now (they don't have a level requirement using ptr.wowhead's talent calculator).

Anyone know of a way / a list that someone else has already made?
It's essentially going to take someone leveling one of every class to 20 on the ptr and making a list.

which seems... kinda silly 4 days out of the pre-patch. At this point I think people are just ready for the patch to drop and will be pleasantly surprised by whatever pvp talents they end up with access to.

Except Rdruids. lol.
 
It's essentially going to take someone leveling one of every class to 20 on the ptr and making a list.

which seems... kinda silly 4 days out of the pre-patch. At this point I think people are just ready for the patch to drop and will be pleasantly surprised by whatever pvp talents they end up with access to.

Except Rdruids. lol.

Lol, I just posted the talents I remember for druid. I guess there's not really a point to do it so close to prepatch, as you say. It's just interesting. There will need to be a list at some point, I think. Especially if WoWhead never updates the level requirements...

Fun fact, by the way. I tested getting my very geared Guardian druid to low health (below 25%) and having a level 10 rsham cast riptide on me. Healed for 1700 non-crit. Be ready for the new Guardian Druid FC meta. They're absolute monsters.

Edit --- a good rule that I haven't seen broken so far, is that if the PTR-Wowhead pvp talent says it requires "level 40", and if you have access to the ability referenced in the tooltip, then you have a fair chance of having access to it. If it says ANY level other than level 40, or if you do not have access to a referenced ability, you will not have access to that talent.
 
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a good rule that I haven't seen broken so far, is that if the PTR-Wowhead pvp talent says it requires "level 40", and if you have access to the ability referenced in the tooltip, then you have a fair chance of having access to it. If it says ANY level other than level 40, or if you do not have access to a referenced ability, you will not have access to that talent.
This is consistent with what i've seen but also... Im only looking at druid and warrior, which you and oldspike have covered lol
 
This is consistent with what i've seen but also... Im only looking at druid and warrior, which you and oldspike have covered lol

We've only been able to confirm Arms pvp talents, too.

Oldspike had an unfortunate situation happen where he used his regular hearthstone on his PTR 20... which is linked with Pandaria... which for whatever reason causes his game to crash and prevent him from ever logging into that character again.
 

They're all up now, I believe. Some VERY interesting options.

In response to your thoughts on Priest pvp talents:

Shadow
Void Shield = Good for solo pvp. The conversion ratio is kind of weak. I don't see this having a place in either Arena or competitive BGs.
Mind Trauma = max DPS option. Also has the cool effect of sapping some DPS from enemies, but that's mainly applicable in Arenas / pug BGs. I don't know how many high DPS casters you can afford to just mind flay in competitive BGs.
Void Shift = insane. This is the talent that other talents have to prove themselves against. It is absolutely unbelievable that level 20 characters get access to it. Best in slot choice, outside of fringe scenarios in any pvp environment.
Psyfiend = probably underrated. I think it's very good for arena. It has the totem problem of being immediately killed if players are coordinated. But it's a handy tool in a lot of scenarios.

Holy
Holy Ward = Powerhouse. It's competing with a lot of other powerhouse pvp talents, but all of the CC negation pvp talents across all specs will have a home in some place at some time.
Holy Word: Concentration = same as Holy Ward, except with different niches. I can see this being an incredible resource in competitive BGs. But compared to some of the other options, it is, like Holy Ward, very situation dependent.
Greater Heal = I can't think of a situation where this is that useful. It's basically Serenity with a cast time, I guess? I haven't had much experience with the "max health" type of spells, but I assume this gets reduced by anti-healing. Even if it doesn't, this is just so easy to interact with as an enemy player.
Miracle Worker = unparalleled in Arena, insane in every other environment. It runs into a bit of the "Abundance" paradox with Swiftmend (although Abundance was still the best option). 2 is better than 1, but 1 is MUCH better than 0. Still, pick this.
Ray of Hope = the main competitor with Miracle Worker. I think it's probably better in competitive, just because of the coordination with other healers. It's comp dependent. In Arenas, it doesn't seem to do anything that a 2nd charge of Serenity wouldn't as well.

Discipline
Purification = Cool talent, but I can't think of where you would specifically want this over the other options.
Purified Resolve = Cool talent, but I can't thi... yeah, same thing. It's hard to imagine when this would ever lead to better healing numbers than some of the other options.
Trinity = this one is kind of complicated and comes with a lot of moving parts. I'm inclined to say it's decent because it gives a more well-rounded effect than the other options, but at the cost of actually being impactful in any area.
Strength of Soul = I can maybe see taking this in an Arena where you know the enemy team is very physical damage reliant. I'm still skeptical that the "while the shield persists" duration is enough of a reason to pick this over another option.
Archangel = do you need to keep teammates alive? Pick this one. Insane in every pvp environment.
Darkangel :^) = Do you need to kill people with your team? Pick this one. Dear god this is unbelievably powerful in competitive BGs.
Searing Light = Offensive option. I guess pick this one in solo BGs where you want to go full aggro. Or in duels. Otherwise, I don't think the reduction on Penance's cooldown justifies this as anything other than a pure aggro choice.
 
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I believe psyfiend had 6 health when i summoned it, maybe 1... either way its not good like you said. I tried to bubble it but it was an "invalid target".

I really wanted to use Mind Trama but you need a full Mind Flay cast. Didnt seem very doable when its your filler/you have to reposition.

I cant believe you can just grant people a 15% damage buff with Dark Archangel, seems crazy.

Im leveling up a mage to check theirs (wod is painful). Interested in monk too if anyone has that...
 
Monk :
MW
MW.png
WW
WW.png
BM
BM.png
[doublepost=1602321279,1602320954][/doublepost]Rogue :

Sub
sub.png

Outlaw
Out.png

Assa
assa.png
 
God every mage spec looks amazing:

Arcane
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=276741/arcane-empowerment
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198151/torment-the-weak
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198158/mass-invisibility
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198062/netherwind-armor
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=236788/dampened-magic
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198064/prismatic-cloak

Frost
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=236788/dampened-magic
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=70106/chilled-to-the-bone
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198120/frostbite
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=206432/burst-of-cold
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198062/netherwind-armor
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198064/prismatic-cloak

Fire
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198062/netherwind-armor
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=203275/tinder
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=203280/world-in-flames
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=280450/controlled-burn
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=198064/prismatic-cloak
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=236788/dampened-magic


Notes:
Mass Invisibility: Sigh, I mean idk if you pick it over missile buff which is just lol but this and Alter Time on 1 min CDs is just so broken.
Fire picks up 100% crit chance with Fire Blast just by being Fire. I didn't see that shown anywhere in the talents but if you hover over it you can see it.
upload_2020-10-11_12-18-21.png

Frost looks amazing, Frostbite seems really strong but Burst of Cold could be an option.

You can create Portals, I think starting at 17. There are 4 options:
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=49361/portal-stonard
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=33691/portal-shattrath
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=53142/portal-dalaran-northrend
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=88345/portal-tol-barad
 
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Old and I tested every class (except Hunters) at 20 last night.

There are some really interesting things to talk about. Pretty much every spec feels viable to some extent. Except Rogue... Rogue got everything they ever dreamed of, but at the cost of crippling poison and actual damage...

Unholy DK is arena viable, by which I mean it's almost at the level of soloing a healer consistently. Blood has Blooddrinker (as always, a good option) but is otherwise kind of underwhelming. Frost has very impressive damage over time, but doesn't seem to be a powerhouse in the same way that Unholy is.

Demon Hunters are in almost the same damn boat as Rogues. They have so many flashy abilities, but so little damage to carry it through. Expect to see them in BGs, though. The mobility is, of course, insane.

Druids are good in almost every variety. Balance has some of the highest burst in the bracket with a medium-level of preparation. Feral is sort of like what Rogue wishes it could be, damage wise, but has exceptionally low utility - nevertheless, Ferals are arena-viable, by which I mean they have a unique reason to be paired with another DPS and can likely be successful in 3v3s. Guardian comes with a stun, and pretty decent damage - enough to make them a threat given how hard they are to kill. Restoration has some crazy big healing numbers - and while the numbers are lower than RSham, it comes with fewer conditionals (Rsham needs targets to be fairly injured, Rdruid just needs Hots on the target).

I'm not entirely sure about Hunters. We weren't able to get much testing in on them. We're working on that today.

Mages are in a great state. Arcane hits like a mack truck still, but I think Frost is better if the pilot is better. Fire is fun, but probably not breaking any records.

Monks should be solid. Windwalker monk looks like an arena viable DPS. Mistweaver has some decent healing numbers and an excellent PVP talent that they've been needing for a while (5s immunity to silence/interrupt). Brewmaster looks very underwhelming compared to even other tanks.

Paladins look sort of like this xpac's god tier at 20. Ret absolutely murders with damage output. Holy has some great instant heals, but does have some slight mana issues - still, the mastery is fantastic for BGs and for a 3 man melee kill squad in arenas. Protection is... surprisingly one of the most solid looking specs in the entire game at 20 - they have great damage, they have INSANE healing, and they have a pvp talent that makes their Avenger's Shield an AoE silence (45s cd).

Priests are very well situated, I think. Discipline mixes healing and damage output quite well, with a ton of pvp talent options. Holy is the supreme healer option, even if it's a bit lacking in offensive options. Shadow looks like it has some pretty crazy DPS output, and it has void shift...

Rogues... are very low damage in every spec. Granted, we didn't test fully geared, but they're at a point where you can just tell they're not going to make it, I don't think. But they have an absolute metric fuckton of utility. Maybe someone finds a creative way to use them at 20.

Shamans are impressive. Elemental has some incredible burst and utility, and I expect to see them in arenas (maybe paired with Balance for maximum burst nature-cleave). Enhancement has utility, but fairly unimpressive damage - the weakest of the Shaman specs. Resto has some mega healing numbers, and lightning bolt absolutely trucks. Counterstrike Totem, available to all the specs, can also cause a lot of classes to inadvertently one shot themselves if they're not careful.

Warlocks are interesting. Affliction finally gains access to all of the toolkit it would want for itself - the damage is maybe not god tier, but it's sizeable; they might be cool when paired with a Shadow Priest for shadowplay. Demonology seemed okay - it was very reliant on Demonic Strength in conjunction with a felguard stun, in my experience. Destruction hit for some good numbers, but didn't really seem to compete with Arcane mages - probably not a great sign.

Warriors maybe gained the most from this expansion than any other class. Arms is my pick for the #1 melee DPS by damage output and utility (in arena, at least). Fury is hard to say, because Oldspike's warrior crashed on the PTR before we could test out its damage at 20 - but it looks fairly solid for similar reasons to Arms. We also didn't get to test Protection, but they seem like a great utility resource for their team - along with some solid damage output as well.
 
Old and I tested every class (except Hunters) at 20 last night.

There are some really interesting things to talk about. Pretty much every spec feels viable to some extent. Except Rogue... Rogue got everything they ever dreamed of, but at the cost of crippling poison and actual damage...

Unholy DK is arena viable, by which I mean it's almost at the level of soloing a healer consistently. Blood has Blooddrinker (as always, a good option) but is otherwise kind of underwhelming. Frost has very impressive damage over time, but doesn't seem to be a powerhouse in the same way that Unholy is.

Demon Hunters are in almost the same damn boat as Rogues. They have so many flashy abilities, but so little damage to carry it through. Expect to see them in BGs, though. The mobility is, of course, insane.

Druids are good in almost every variety. Balance has some of the highest burst in the bracket with a medium-level of preparation. Feral is sort of like what Rogue wishes it could be, damage wise, but has exceptionally low utility - nevertheless, Ferals are arena-viable, by which I mean they have a unique reason to be paired with another DPS and can likely be successful in 3v3s. Guardian comes with a stun, and pretty decent damage - enough to make them a threat given how hard they are to kill. Restoration has some crazy big healing numbers - and while the numbers are lower than RSham, it comes with fewer conditionals (Rsham needs targets to be fairly injured, Rdruid just needs Hots on the target).

I'm not entirely sure about Hunters. We weren't able to get much testing in on them. We're working on that today.

Mages are in a great state. Arcane hits like a mack truck still, but I think Frost is better if the pilot is better. Fire is fun, but probably not breaking any records.

Monks should be solid. Windwalker monk looks like an arena viable DPS. Mistweaver has some decent healing numbers and an excellent PVP talent that they've been needing for a while (5s immunity to silence/interrupt). Brewmaster looks very underwhelming compared to even other tanks.

Paladins look sort of like this xpac's god tier at 20. Ret absolutely murders with damage output. Holy has some great instant heals, but does have some slight mana issues - still, the mastery is fantastic for BGs and for a 3 man melee kill squad in arenas. Protection is... surprisingly one of the most solid looking specs in the entire game at 20 - they have great damage, they have INSANE healing, and they have a pvp talent that makes their Avenger's Shield an AoE silence (45s cd).

Priests are very well situated, I think. Discipline mixes healing and damage output quite well, with a ton of pvp talent options. Holy is the supreme healer option, even if it's a bit lacking in offensive options. Shadow looks like it has some pretty crazy DPS output, and it has void shift...

Rogues... are very low damage in every spec. Granted, we didn't test fully geared, but they're at a point where you can just tell they're not going to make it, I don't think. But they have an absolute metric fuckton of utility. Maybe someone finds a creative way to use them at 20.

Shamans are impressive. Elemental has some incredible burst and utility, and I expect to see them in arenas (maybe paired with Balance for maximum burst nature-cleave). Enhancement has utility, but fairly unimpressive damage - the weakest of the Shaman specs. Resto has some mega healing numbers, and lightning bolt absolutely trucks. Counterstrike Totem, available to all the specs, can also cause a lot of classes to inadvertently one shot themselves if they're not careful.

Warlocks are interesting. Affliction finally gains access to all of the toolkit it would want for itself - the damage is maybe not god tier, but it's sizeable; they might be cool when paired with a Shadow Priest for shadowplay. Demonology seemed okay - it was very reliant on Demonic Strength in conjunction with a felguard stun, in my experience. Destruction hit for some good numbers, but didn't really seem to compete with Arcane mages - probably not a great sign.

Warriors maybe gained the most from this expansion than any other class. Arms is my pick for the #1 melee DPS by damage output and utility (in arena, at least). Fury is hard to say, because Oldspike's warrior crashed on the PTR before we could test out its damage at 20 - but it looks fairly solid for similar reasons to Arms. We also didn't get to test Protection, but they seem like a great utility resource for their team - along with some solid damage output as well.

How was Maelstrom generation for Ele?
 
How was Maelstrom generation for Ele?

It seemed quite good. Elemental, oddly enough, gets access to a pvp talent that "replaces" an ability you don't get until level 29.

You won't be able to double earth shock unless you take the pvp talent increasing your maelstrom cap to 150... but I don't think you need that. Lava Bursts were hitting anywhere from 1100 to 900 crits based on the target's versatility / anti-magic damage passives.

Health pools with full legion gear are in the 2200-2600 range for non-tanks. I don't think legion dungeon gear will be nerfed at the start of pre-patch. It's definitely a bug, worth keeping in mind, but who knows if it actually gets axed quickly.

Edit for an important note:

Healers run OOM. At least, they do outside of pvp instances, and I don't see why it would be different inside them. This is absolutely crucial for us. Everything is better when healers are actually required to use a brain when they're healing.

Hard casting into a healer will run them low on mana in 45-60 seconds, depending on the healer, their cooldowns, etc.
 
Old and I tested every class (except Hunters) at 20 last night.

There are some really interesting things to talk about. Pretty much every spec feels viable to some extent. Except Rogue... Rogue got everything they ever dreamed of, but at the cost of crippling poison and actual damage...

Unholy DK is arena viable, by which I mean it's almost at the level of soloing a healer consistently. Blood has Blooddrinker (as always, a good option) but is otherwise kind of underwhelming. Frost has very impressive damage over time, but doesn't seem to be a powerhouse in the same way that Unholy is.

Demon Hunters are in almost the same damn boat as Rogues. They have so many flashy abilities, but so little damage to carry it through. Expect to see them in BGs, though. The mobility is, of course, insane.

Druids are good in almost every variety. Balance has some of the highest burst in the bracket with a medium-level of preparation. Feral is sort of like what Rogue wishes it could be, damage wise, but has exceptionally low utility - nevertheless, Ferals are arena-viable, by which I mean they have a unique reason to be paired with another DPS and can likely be successful in 3v3s. Guardian comes with a stun, and pretty decent damage - enough to make them a threat given how hard they are to kill. Restoration has some crazy big healing numbers - and while the numbers are lower than RSham, it comes with fewer conditionals (Rsham needs targets to be fairly injured, Rdruid just needs Hots on the target).

I'm not entirely sure about Hunters. We weren't able to get much testing in on them. We're working on that today.

Mages are in a great state. Arcane hits like a mack truck still, but I think Frost is better if the pilot is better. Fire is fun, but probably not breaking any records.

Monks should be solid. Windwalker monk looks like an arena viable DPS. Mistweaver has some decent healing numbers and an excellent PVP talent that they've been needing for a while (5s immunity to silence/interrupt). Brewmaster looks very underwhelming compared to even other tanks.

Paladins look sort of like this xpac's god tier at 20. Ret absolutely murders with damage output. Holy has some great instant heals, but does have some slight mana issues - still, the mastery is fantastic for BGs and for a 3 man melee kill squad in arenas. Protection is... surprisingly one of the most solid looking specs in the entire game at 20 - they have great damage, they have INSANE healing, and they have a pvp talent that makes their Avenger's Shield an AoE silence (45s cd).

Priests are very well situated, I think. Discipline mixes healing and damage output quite well, with a ton of pvp talent options. Holy is the supreme healer option, even if it's a bit lacking in offensive options. Shadow looks like it has some pretty crazy DPS output, and it has void shift...

Rogues... are very low damage in every spec. Granted, we didn't test fully geared, but they're at a point where you can just tell they're not going to make it, I don't think. But they have an absolute metric fuckton of utility. Maybe someone finds a creative way to use them at 20.

Shamans are impressive. Elemental has some incredible burst and utility, and I expect to see them in arenas (maybe paired with Balance for maximum burst nature-cleave). Enhancement has utility, but fairly unimpressive damage - the weakest of the Shaman specs. Resto has some mega healing numbers, and lightning bolt absolutely trucks. Counterstrike Totem, available to all the specs, can also cause a lot of classes to inadvertently one shot themselves if they're not careful.

Warlocks are interesting. Affliction finally gains access to all of the toolkit it would want for itself - the damage is maybe not god tier, but it's sizeable; they might be cool when paired with a Shadow Priest for shadowplay. Demonology seemed okay - it was very reliant on Demonic Strength in conjunction with a felguard stun, in my experience. Destruction hit for some good numbers, but didn't really seem to compete with Arcane mages - probably not a great sign.

Warriors maybe gained the most from this expansion than any other class. Arms is my pick for the #1 melee DPS by damage output and utility (in arena, at least). Fury is hard to say, because Oldspike's warrior crashed on the PTR before we could test out its damage at 20 - but it looks fairly solid for similar reasons to Arms. We also didn't get to test Protection, but they seem like a great utility resource for their team - along with some solid damage output as well.
what gear and enchants did you use in this test
 
what gear and enchants did you use in this test

Mostly Shattrath gear and artifact vendor weapons (which are just weaker than a fully upgraded artifact weapon).


ALSO - the OP has been comprehensively updated with every single spec's pvp talents (and the shared talents between all specs of a class).
 

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