Rogues = Death of the Bracket

[Awesome]

I don't see how I'm being extreme here. I feel I'm being perfectly reasonable. People are leaving the bracket because of this problem. Herald is completely right when he says ''if the abundance of rogues is killing the bracket then that means that rogues are killing the bracket''. People should care about the health of this bracket. Playing a rogue is equivalent to being selfish as you're essentially ruining fun for everybody else.

So, in theory, you would have every rogue either retire their 19s, or roll new 19s/play other classes that they already have?

This would be convenient for everyone else, but a lot of people put hard work and take a shit ton of pride in their rogues:

I think half the problem is how hard rogues are to get BiS (Fangs, for example)

Once you've put so much effort into a twink, you want to play it a lot.

Agonist, a lot of the things you post are theoretical, and that's awesome. But there is no way the bracket can get all rogues to simply stop queueing on their rogues - just as we can't get all 19s to stop roflstomping on their Alliance twinks and switch to their Hordies... which we all know they have. Who doesn't have a character for winlogging nowadays lol

 

[CaptainPonysock]

I think half the problem is how hard rogues are to get BiS (Fangs, for example)

Once you've put so much effort into a twink, you want to play it a lot.

10v10 rogue gulch imo. That should fix the problem. Jkjk.
I agree. I am open to re-rolling though just for the sake of the bracket

 

[FrozenWill]

5 hunters is better than 5 rogues any day no matter what team ur on

problem is literally the only person who plays rogue properly is mythical the rest die as soon as they ambush



since ya asked for it, here you go

For starters, YOU. yes, YOU.

Dodgeyou
Mepsi
Basedxibalba
Tiptoe
Kalyntha
Sylenthe
Ambushurface
Gouldjcrew
Maloof
Toxxicstab

thats just off the top of my head

you can bet any shitter rogue from medicinal will make the list

I don't see how you can list off rogues( most of which have been playing for a long ass time) and say that they hurt the community because all of the sudden they are overpowered or underpowered whatever. That's like telling someone who has played their shaman in the 19's for 6+ years to gtfo of the bracket because Johnny,billy,Peter,Sam and grant made shamans last month and now a lot more people are using them in the battlegrounds so all the people who have been playing shamans before theOverpowered updates came into play can F off... That's basically my interpretation of what you were trying to get out. You can't just generalize every rogue you see as someone who is trying to take advantage of people, it's just that you don't have to be completely geared to wreck decent players as a rogue, and that's why a lot of people who are newer play as a rogue because it's easy to learn.

 

[Solipsist]

So, in theory, you would have every rogue either retire their 19s, or roll new 19s/play other classes that they already have?

This would be awesome for everyone else, but a lot of people put hard work and take a shit ton of pride in their rogues. A lot of the things you post really are purely theoretical :/

There is no way the bracket can get all rogues to simply stop queueing on their rogues - just as we can't get all 19s to stop roflstomping on their Alliance twinks and switch to their Hordies... which we all know they have. Who doesn't have a character for winlogging nowadays lol

No, I would have people actually give a shit about their bracket and understand what its doing to this community. What do you mean what I post is theory? How is any of this theory? I understand rogues won't go away but their are several people in this thread who constantly queue their rogue. The reason sides are getting ''roflstomped'' is because of rogues being detrimental to the mid presence( i.e teams will get contained).

 

[Solipsist]

I don't see how you can list off rogues( most of which have been playing for a long ass time) and say that they hurt the community because all of the sudden they are overpowered or underpowered whatever. That's like telling someone who has played their shaman in the 19's for 6+ years to gtfo of the bracket because Johnny,billy,Peter,Sam and grant made shamans last month and now a lot more people are using them in the battlegrounds so all the people who have been playing shamans before theOverpowered updates came into play can F off... That's basically my interpretation of what you were trying to get out. You can't just generalize every rogue you see as someone who is trying to take advantage of people, it's just that you don't have to be completely geared to wreck decent players as a rogue.

Yes, but shamans don't cause teams to get contained and destroyed in mid.

 

[Awesome]

How is any of this theory?

You can lead a rogue to the character creation screen, but you can't make him create a new character.

It's impossible to get stubborn (and justifiably so) twinks, who've but years of effort into perfecting their rogues, to simply cease queuing on said rogues lol.

And even if they did, there would still be the influx of new twink rogues who are ready to gank, roflstomp, and pwn their ways into our unwelcoming hearts. Think early Cataclysm's flood of hunters: that never really ended, it just expanded to hunters AND rogues.

Yours is a convenient idea, but it can never be put into effect

 

[inoobupro]

I don't see how you can list off rogues( most of which have been playing for a long ass time) and say that they hurt the community because all of the sudden they are overpowered or underpowered whatever. That's like telling someone who has played their shaman in the 19's for 6+ years to gtfo of the bracket because Johnny,billy,Peter,Sam and grant made shamans last month and now a lot more people are using them in the battlegrounds so all the people who have been playing shamans before theOverpowered updates came into play can F off... That's basically my interpretation of what you were trying to get out. You can't just generalize every rogue you see as someone who is trying to take advantage of people, it's just that you don't have to be completely geared to wreck decent players as a rogue, and that's why a lot of people who are newer play as a rogue because it's easy to learn.

frozenwill buddy, he isnt trying to say that rogues are OP and that they wreck ppl in 2 globals so everyone should stop rolling them

what he is trying to say is:

Basically picture this scenario :
your team has 5+ stealthed shitters in mid and 5 nonstealthers vs a full nonstealth team.

-Midclash happens
-The stealthed shitters stay stealthed, essentially making it a 5vs10
-The nonstealthers get wiped and its game over at this point
-Containment + calling out targets

I do similar shit in the f2p bracket to troll (4 troll toons that come in naked) and let me tell you I've yet to win a game but i get loooooots of ragers

 

[FrozenWill]

Yes, but shamans don't cause teams to get contained and destroyed in mid.

Yeah I know that lol I was using shamans as an example, but if people are willing to stop queuing just because a class/group of rogues is queuing means they should probably quit altogether. I don't quit when I'm up against a fricking premised group and I'm stuck with pugs who are either less experienced or new, then later on in the game we find out that we're going to get spawn camped the whole time or get 0 flag caps or destroyed in mid the whole time. When I still was playing wow, I made an anti rogue set because I knew that at some point I would get hanker by a few. And I'll just say that the anti rogue set worked really well, you just have to find ways around BS sometimes, meaning when you see a group full of rogues in the bg you probably shouldn't be wearing a spell power set. It's common sense.

 

[Awesome]

Basically picture this scenario :
your team has 5+ stealthed shitters in mid and 5 nonstealthers vs a full nonstealth team.

-Midclash happens
-The stealthed shitters stay stealthed, essentially making it a 5vs10
-The nonstealthers get wiped and its game over at this point
-Containment + calling out targets

There were a few really good games I was in today where a few rogues stood out for being extremely annoying... because they were doing what they are supposed to do lol. The rogues were sapping healers, keeping them away from their groups, raping the shit out of them in 2 hits, restealthing, and repeating.

Is this not what rogues are intended to do in PvP?

 

[Solipsist]

You can lead a rogue to the character creation screen, but you can't make him create a new character.

It's impossible to get stubborn (and justifiably so) twinks, who've but years of effort into perfecting their rogues, to simply cease queuing on said rogues lol.

And even if they did, there would still be the influx of new twink rogues who are ready to gank, roflstomp, and pwn their ways into our unwelcoming hearts. Think early Cataclysm's flood of hunters: that never really ended, it just expanded to hunters AND rogues.

No, it's a select group of rogues constantly queuing everyday. I know 70% of those people have other classes .Heck even I have a rogue . I put alot of time into as well, but I will never play it because of how negative it is to this bracket. We need care about the brackets health more. Answer me this, would you rather keep queuing on a rogue continuously, degrading games and possibly making the bracket go inactive or would you lay down your weapons make another class and improve the quality of games enhancing the brackets stability?
I mean does it really matter if you put alot of time into your rogue when the bracket dies?

 

[FrozenWill]

frozenwill buddy, he isnt trying to say that rogues are OP and that they wreck ppl in 2 globals so everyone should stop rolling them

what he is trying to say is:

Basically picture this scenario :
your team has 5+ stealthed shitters in mid and 5 nonstealthers vs a full nonstealth team.

-Midclash happens
-The stealthed shitters stay stealthed, essentially making it a 5vs10
-The nonstealthers get wiped and its game over at this point
-Containment + calling out targets

I do similar shit in the f2p bracket to troll (4 troll toons that come in naked) and let me tell you I've yet to win a game but i get loooooots of ragers

I understand bro, but we all know the only options to avoid this are either 1.) "can't beat em, join them" 2.) make a healer with a shitload of health 3.) get a good group of mixed classes with people who know how to handle rogues. Arguing about how shitty a certain class is, isent going to keep people from playing that class lol and 99.9% of this is blizzards fault anyways because they still can't balance classes in pvp and pve.

 

[Maurdel]

when you see a group full of rogues in the bg you probably shouldn't be wearing a spell power set. It's common sense.

This is exactly what I've been thinking about tonight. I need stamina against these rogue groups and throughput against groups with a lot of ranged.

 

[Awesome]

Answer me this, would you rather keep queuing on a rogue continuously, degrading games and possibly making the bracket go inactive or would you lay down your weapons make another class and improve the quality of games enhancing the brackets stability?

I have a rogue that I spent months gearing and stuff, too - I love my rogue, he's fun, and nostalgic. I don't play him at all because it's detrimental to the bracket's activity and quality.

The argument I'm making is that not everyone shares our opinion, and will continue to play their rogues. I think they're justified, and it's solely a matter of others' opinions that you're presenting.

Remember that short amount of time that hunters were the big thing (still are, but less so), and EVERYONE was complaining about how hunters ruin games, how hunters cause GY farms, how they were unfair, etc. etc.?

And you kept playing your hunter..? Then druids were FOTM, so you made a druid..?

I'm not going for low blows here, I'm just saying that you know exactly how it feels to be proud of a character, love playing it because it's easy and BiS, has a respected name, and is FOTM. I did too for most of wrath and cata, don't get me wrong.

 

[Awesome]

Yes but you are missing one point

4-5 hunters would not cause their teams an automatic loss....

the whole GY farm thing could be worked around by having heals/+fighting fire with fire...but having lots of rogues on your team leads to nonstealth getting spawntrapped

the only option is to report them afk lolol

No, it wouldn't. It was the inverse. And it was just as bad.

Cata-MoP: 5+ hunters on team A = loss for team B.
MoP: 5+ rogues on team A = potential win for team B.

 

[Glazed]

The only thing that will kill the 19 bracket is people like you guys that sit there and just complain about a class as opposed to doing something about it.
You can't stop people playing from playing their rogues. Learn to deal with it.

Hunters have track stealth, use it to guard your FC or look around someone who got sapped.
Priest bubble usually completely stops a rogue from being able to land a kill.
Shamans and other classes can dot rogues to make them unable to open for a while.
If you have 2-3 rogues sticking together ganking 1 person at a time, try to stick with the group, cause rogues die FAST to a group.

There are many ways to stop this kind of bad play style, and when it is stopped it doesn't make rogues useless.

Rogues can guard your FC, surprising any enemy trying to kill him/her.
Rogues are great Flag carriers themselves. You know how far you can get with a swiftness pot and evasion?
If you're guarding your Fc, and know hes about to die, you can pick the flag up out of stealth and take off with it without anyone expecting you.
You can sap enemy healers before they get in combat to prevent them from being useful for 15 seconds or so.
You can ambush other rogues to kill them quickly.

THE LIST GOES ON.

It's a TEAM effort when it comes to WSG. Play like it, and you won't be complaining about these things.
You know Livingforce the NE priest? He had 1.3k hp at one point, and I would usually get the kill off on him with the opener. You know what he did? HE GOT MORE STAMINA and can outlive the opener well long enough to get me killed.

You know what I did in result of this? Started working with my team to get the healers killed, or sapped him when he was out of combat.

BOTH TEAMS are going to have rogues, making it completely balanced. Seriously.
Learn to play with it.

 

[Awesome]

The only thing that will kill the 19 bracket is people like you guys that sit there and just complain about a class as opposed to doing something about it.
You can't stop people playing from playing their rogues. Learn to deal with it.

Hunters have track stealth, use it to guard your FC or look around someone who got sapped.
Priest bubble usually completely stops a rogue from being able to land a kill.
Shamans and other classes can dot rogues to make them unable to open for a while.
If you have 2-3 rogues sticking together ganking 1 person at a time, try to stick with the group, cause rogues die FAST to a group.

There are many ways to stop this kind of bad play style, and when it is stopped it doesn't make rogues useless.

Rogues can guard your FC, surprising any enemy trying to kill him/her.
Rogues are great Flag carriers themselves. You know how far you can get with a swiftness pot and evasion?
If you're guarding your Fc, and know hes about to die, you can pick the flag up out of stealth and take off with it without anyone expecting you.
You can sap enemy healers before they get in combat to prevent them from being useful for 15 seconds or so.
You can ambush other rogues to kill them quickly.

THE LIST GOES ON.

It's a TEAM effort when it comes to WSG. Play like it, and you won't be complaining about these things.
You know Livingforce the NE priest? He had 1.3k hp at one point, and I would usually get the kill off on him with the opener. You know what he did? HE GOT MORE STAMINA and can outlive the opener well long enough to get me killed.

You know what I did in result of this? Started working with my team to get the healers killed, or sapped him when he was out of combat.

BOTH TEAMS are going to have rogues, making it completely balanced. Seriously.
Learn to play with it.

 

[Herald]

So, in theory, you would have every rogue either retire their 19s, or roll new 19s/play other classes that they already have?

This would be convenient for everyone else, but a lot of people put hard work and take a shit ton of pride in their rogues:

yeah the ones that are dumb as fuck

the players with a brain move on when the class is beyond useless just look at curley he plays monk now and hes better than 99% of the bracket

 

[Herald]

10v10 rogue gulch imo. That should fix the problem. Jkjk.
I agree. I am open to re-rolling though just for the sake of the bracket

Please reroll itll be like a new world once u experience playing a class that isnt fucking useless

 

[Herald]

You can lead a rogue to the character creation screen, but you can't make him create a new character.

It's impossible to get stubborn (and justifiably so) twinks, who've but years of effort into perfecting their rogues, to simply cease queuing on said rogues lol.

And even if they did, there would still be the influx of new twink rogues who are ready to gank, roflstomp, and pwn their ways into our unwelcoming hearts. Think early Cataclysm's flood of hunters: that never really ended, it just expanded to hunters AND rogues.

Yours is a convenient idea, but it can never be put into effect

ur actually fucking retarded literally 80% of the rogues that keep queing rogues and ruining games have posted in this thread

and once again ur missing the point about how a rogue fucks over their own team cause they are in stealth so much in a bracket that revolves around the mid strat and mid presence

hunters might be hard to face for the other team but they sure as hell arent gonna fuck over their own team like rogues do

i was gonna say its fitting that ur avatar is a monkey but ur way too fucking stupid a monkey is smarter than u and would prob play wow better too

 

[Solipsist]

I have a rogue that I spent months gearing and stuff, too - I love my rogue, he's fun, and nostalgic. I don't play him at all because it's detrimental to the bracket's activity and quality.

The argument I'm making is that not everyone shares our opinion, and will continue to play their rogues. I think they're justified, and it's solely a matter of others' opinions that you're presenting.

Remember that short amount of time that hunters were the big thing (still are, but less so), and EVERYONE was complaining about how hunters ruin games, how hunters cause GY farms, how they were unfair, etc. etc.?

And you kept playing your hunter..? Then druids were FOTM, so you made a druid..?

I'm not going for low blows here, I'm just saying that you know exactly how it feels to be proud of a character, love playing it because it's easy and BiS, has a respected name, and is FOTM. I did too for most of wrath and cata, don't get me wrong.

I'm sure people have different opinions on the matter, that's not the point. I know people will stop playing if there are a continuous influx of rogues.You act as if it's just me who has the view. If we had a poll for why people stopped playing the bracket I guarantee you 90% will vote for rogues. A majority of people are getting sick of it. If the majority gets annoyed to the brink, then we will have no games. I have no idea why you're bringing up fotm classes. Do you even understand what I'm talking about here?

what he is trying to say is:

Basically picture this scenario :
your team has 5+ stealthed shitters in mid and 5 nonstealthers vs a full nonstealth team.

-Midclash happens
-The stealthed shitters stay stealthed, essentially making it a 5vs10
-The nonstealthers get wiped and its game over at this point
-Containment + calling out targets

^this

I made a druid originally because we needed one for our premade team, not like that has anything to do with what we're talking about.