Rogue weapons and weapon enchants

necroaqua said:
No, not quite. Blizz went through and attempted to normalize all the weapons. So weapon damage still matters, and a slower weapon will increase that weapon damage. But 99% of weapons have all be normalized to have the same speeds. So something like shadowfang, which was slower, got normalized to be the same speed and damage as everything else.

But the few weapons that are slower still affect things. In the 19 bracket, there are 0 slower weapons - so we like to say not to worry about it because things have been normalized as its easier than explaining the full story.
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But I think none of the special attacks scale off the weapon damage and it is only the auto-attack that are affected by weapon damage / weapon speed. Even for auto attacks, if a slow weapon hits harder but still has the same average DPS, then surely there is no advantage in having a slow weapon?
 
Cobster said:
But I think none of the special attacks scale off the weapon damage and it is only the auto-attack that are affected by weapon damage / weapon speed. Even for auto attacks, if a slow weapon hits harder but still has the same average DPS, then surely there is no advantage in having a slow weapon?
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Weapon damage is still part of the equation unless they've changed things very recently. You can probably test it out by finding two weapons with the same dps but different speeds (either find one of the exceptions, or use a lower level sword vs a higher level dagger or something).

Theres a number of enchant procs, weapon procs, poison procs, etc that all use various proc rate schemes (PPM, RPPM, USP, etc). I don't know what uses what and which of those might benefit from a slower/faster weapon, but I believe attack speed does play a role in at least one of those schemes.
 
I honestly think that
- procs are all rppm (real procs per minute), where weapon speed is irrelevant.
- and damage is now normalised so that weapon speed doesn't matter.

From the ravenholdt outlaw guide ( http://www.ravenholdt.net/outlaw-guide/#faq ):
"Weapon types, and daggers in BFA
Both combat potency and ability damage are normalized so that the attack speed of your off-hand does not matter. This means despite the fact that daggers do not drop for Outlaw we can use one in the off-hand with no loss of damage. A sword/axe/mace/fist is still required in the main-hand to cast Dispatch."
 
Cobster said:
I honestly think that
- procs are all rppm (real procs per minute), where weapon speed is irrelevant.
- and damage is now normalised so that weapon speed doesn't matter.
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RPPM wasn't added until MoP, so a lot of procs from then on follow it but they didn't update old enchants. Most cata and earlier enchants are either PPM with some weapon speed normalization, or have a high proc chance and an ICD (some more info in the source blue post from that MMOC thread here). Seems like Landslide is PPM and only procs on melee swings (not abilities), can't find much on a MH/OH difference though. Looks like slower weapons should give you a slightly higher proc rate on your opener, but even out over time.

There's also 2 separate RPPMs they use, one with haste and one without. Basic rule of thumb there is the proc chance scales with haste if the proc itself doesn't benefit from it. Ele Force proc rate scales with haste, Dancing Steel's doesn't.

I did notice that tooltips don't change much on most rogue abilities when you swap a dagger/sword, but I didn't test it too much more than that. Monks used to just scale with weapon DPS, they might've done something similar for everyone since ability scaling got reworked a bit with BfA.
 
jancithqt said:
Still not seeing DLS procs in instanced pvp. Green Whelp Armor does though.
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Have to echo Janc's statement. I've been using DLS on my Rogue for a few days now, around 2k kills in Battlegrounds, and I have not noticed it proc. The visual of it doing so is pretty apparent. I even fight mobs in between my BG queues and it procs fairly regularly in the open world. BGs? Haven't noticed it one time, and I've even been looking out for it.

A shame, since -90 Armor on an opponent is literally making any non-plate wearer at this level have 0 armor. That's a lot of extra physical damage to be dealing, especially when I run with my Fury Warrior friend.

Thinking of maybe replacing it with Darkwater Talbar or whatever it's called from Blackfathom Deeps. The shadowbolt procs fairly regularly, same attack speed, slightly less damage but you do get added stats (and agility). EF as the enchant, either way. I already have two of the things sitting in my bag.
 
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