Rogue specs

[Mocha]

Okay so Sub is currently the preferred spec of choice because of it's insane mobility.

Combat does great damage outside of stealth, way, way more-so than Sub.

I wouldn't be surprised to see combat being best spec for actual damage on to the EFC.

What are you missing? Some agil, Waylay proc, stealthed speed, great ambushes, and of course, the great ability to be on the EFC instantly with Shadow Step.



I think a well played combat rogue could be more of a threat to an EFC than a sub rogue, for several reasons: Eviscerate crits for 600, far more damage done out of stealth, and the ability to also spread some damage to a second target. Out of BF your energy regen is increased, making SS hit many more times, and with the specced damage it is pretty hard hitting.



I want to hear what you guys have to say about this, personally I find both equally enjoyable and quite equally useful on Offense.

~Mocha

 

[notoriousthf]

Lack of snare (waylay) and ShS is the reason Sub is best against EFCs. Once you get snared/rooted, ToT on EFC is lost.

 

[Windsword]

SS hits for less than white swings. Shadowstep can let you teleport instantly to the top of tunnel, fences, jump up a floor, jump onto stumps if you miss the jump, not to mention closing the gap on a huge disengage+rocket jump combo. Combat does not allow for errors and requires you to be on-point with no lag and extreme luck to maintain ToT. The choice should be obvious

 

[Junoo]

I was combat specced b4 this hunter aimed shot buff. Combat is an awesome spec, incredible burst dmg but as you've explained sub has better aspects to it. i couldnt tell you how many times 6sec cd on stealth has saved my ass.



BF is melee range only (Second targets armour doesnt effect there inc dmg) which can be useful if you have two rogues hugging you it isnt AS effective and potentially lowing your dps due to lack of energy.



But at the end of the day combot does require more still to use and if used correctly, can easily out dps sub rogues and unlike sub spec , combat isnt RNG based.

 

[Mocha]

I feel like there are many advantages to sub, but when you're going 1v2 against efc and a healer, there is no need for them to run, most of the time they sit on the cap. There you can los casted abilities and if the two are close, BF and LB popped you will take a decent chunk out of both their health pools, also kicking back casting if close enough, Recuperate ticks for like 60-70s which is more than beautiful, against a fc and healer you will slowly be taking damage.

For me this is a fun spec for messing around in since most of the time I'm the only one on the flag carrier, and it's also nice to have SS actually do some damage.... like I said 600 eviscerates for me are more useful than a 400 crit ambush in one combat session (unless WL proc). Also you can selectively chose when you need to burst down the last 35% of your targets health to kill them, etc and it is reusable several seconds later without leaving combat (did I mention 30% increased regen? wicked sexy in combat imo, that means more SS in less time, AND they do more damage each swing).

 

[Rivfader]

I could actually see combat being more useful than sub in premades where you have a team to support you. BF would be very useful because youcould sit on a priest (or other clothy) and as long as the FC was nearby you could bypass all of their mitigation. Sub is clearly superior for pugging since you rarely have meaningful support, but depending on O and D comps I could see combat fitting in just for the crazy damage, they would require a little bit of babysitting though.

 

[Mocha]

I could actually see combat being more useful than sub in premades where you have a team to support you.

This is what I was thinking of, i feel like pugs sub is best, but at least one combat rogue in a prem would be quite great O

 

[Splenda]

Combat is horrible in every (important) aspect. Go Sublety or go home.

 

[Cloud]

As or right now, Sub. Its just overall useful.

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Surely shadowstep kick and the lack of babysitting tools (HoF, dispel etc) of many classes would mean you'd still be at a loss if playing combat.

 

[Mocha]

Combat is horrible in every (important) aspect.

Wong.

For starters improved kick is great against a healer for one (aka locking down a healer), regen rate increased is great for gouging (aka locking down a healer), damage done to multiple targets can knock back casting bars (aka slowing heals), 600 crit eviscerates are great (aka killing a healer/making him heal himself instead of efc (locking down a healer))



I agree with many saying that Sub is #1, but being able to lock down a healer in more ways than subt is one way where it is not so horrible. Combat is better than sub if you are in any combat situation where there isn't much movement by the enemy flag carrier, that's true, don't believe me try out combat for a bit.

Also if you know how to play combat it is definitely not "Horrible", at least one of my rogues have been combat since TBC was announced, so you're comment was pretty nonconstructive calling Combat "Horrible in every (important) aspect," and that I should "go sublety or go home"



and fyi it's subtlety, not sublety

 

[Evade]

a shadowstep kick on a healer is far more important than measly out of stealth dps. its burst and utility that matters.



/thread

 

[Rivfader]

Thing is, the damage done to the second target through BF is based off of the damage your target takes. So you can chew through all the FCs mitigation depending on positioning. It depends on O comp, but I could see it being useful. I remember back in BC when hpally/MS warrior was a popular 2s comp my buddy ran double combat rogue. They'd force a bubble on the pally and while the warrior was trying to peel they'd pop BF and other CDs and beat on the bubble because it had no mitigation whatsoever. Warry would drop insta-quick and then they'd finish off the pally.

 

[Mocha]

They'd force a bubble on the pally and while the warrior was trying to peel they'd pop BF and other CDs and beat on the bubble because it had no mitigation whatsoever. Warry would drop insta-quick and then they'd finish off the pally.

And this is putting stress on the healer/knocking back his casting or killing him, either one of those 2, while damaging the fc, sounds pretty sweet to me. And if a combat rogue wanted to, it could spec into imp kick for more lockout. I'm goin to keep pugging around as combat for a bit, it's kinda nice on an efc

 

[m0l1n]

Stop this debate and go mutilate, woo

 

[Grabco]

What's the difference between a combat rogue and a ret pally? Only difference I can see is the ability to get an opener on a target other than that they both have to ramp up for their burst.

 

[notoriousthf]

What's the difference between a combat rogue and a ret pally? Only difference I can see is the ability to get an opener on a target other than that they both have to ramp up for their burst.

Ret pallies have a 5 second stun and exorcism for ranged.

Combat rogues don't even have a snare, and can only use ranged with thrown/bow for little damage.

 

[Grabco]

Ret pallies have a 5 second stun and exorcism for ranged.

Combat rogues don't even have a snare, and can only use ranged with thrown/bow for little damage.

So this is a good argument against making a combat rogue. Only advantage I can see for the rogue is the ability to open on the FC.

 

[Rivfader]

That, and the insane damage they do. If it were to be used it would be against a stationary D for the purpose of popping BF on a healer/FC combo. I know it sound like a "perfect storm" scenario, but I'm reluctant to discount it out of hand.

 

[Splenda]

Wong.

For starters improved kick is great against a healer for one (aka locking down a healer), regen rate increased is great for gouging (aka locking down a healer), damage done to multiple targets can knock back casting bars (aka slowing heals), 600 crit eviscerates are great (aka killing a healer/making him heal himself instead of efc (locking down a healer))



I agree with many saying that Sub is #1, but being able to lock down a healer in more ways than subt is one way where it is not so horrible. Combat is better than sub if you are in any combat situation where there isn't much movement by the enemy flag carrier, that's true, don't believe me try out combat for a bit.

Also if you know how to play combat it is definitely not "Horrible", at least one of my rogues have been combat since TBC was announced, so you're comment was pretty nonconstructive calling Combat "Horrible in every (important) aspect," and that I should "go sublety or go home"



and fyi it's subtlety, not sublety

tl;dr



message to you: shut up and l2p sub > combat anyday

a shadowstep kick on a healer is far more important than measly out of stealth dps. its burst and utility that matters.



/thread

this, listen to the leaf-eater