Retribution Help or Thoughts

Discussion in 'Level 20-29' started by silverado, Nov 26, 2018.

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  1. silverado

    silverado Member

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    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Silverado

    Played more, leaning more towards Haste>Crit>Attack power, as versatility just does not keep a tier 2 class alive at all, nor does it greatly increase the damage of a Ret. Rather have Haste and ANY burst from ANY amount of Crit, over flat increase from Versatility.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  2. Bethdachef

    Bethdachef Grandfathered

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    Sorry not able to answer all your questions, but this cloak is BIS for strength classes at 29, comes in 'of the Aurora' too.

    https://www.wowhead.com/item=7460/knights-cloak&spec=70

    AH is your best shot, its a world BOE.

    I think engineering is one of the best professions at this level for any class. The master goggles are for survivability, it all depends how many extra seconds you want to last as opposed to how many points you want in another secondary stat. It only matters if you are stacking versatility so I wouldn't worry about it now, but you may want to retwink later. It's worth having in your bank. One last point on master goggles, I play dps and healing classes at this level and i always find the extra stamina helps when cds are all used. As a MM hunter that extra 230 hp is almost 50% of my aimed shot. It's almost 50% of my disc shield too.

    The stacking of secondary stats is totally down to individual playstyle. Some classes work better with certain stats, but all that matters is you equip the best gear available and have fun while you are doing it.

    Every one dies to the fury, a good fury would crush my imba priest if i didn't run. Rets, not so much
     
  3. Dcm

    Dcm idc

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    So one thing that I think is important first off, just from looking at your character, is your weapon enchant. Crusader has a very high uptime, even as ret paladin, and I feel as though it is way too good to pass up over static attack power. The reason as well is because weapon swapping for double, and maybe even triple, procs is where a lot of your damage will come from. Double crusader procs has won me a lot of mid fights, because (and this is only as level 20) makes my templar's verdict crit for as much as 1k, and execution sentence as much as 800 (if you choose to run that talent).

    Not to mention, using Crusader and weapon swapping, in my opinion, is the only way you can justify the stat priority of haste > attack power/strength, because as stated above, that is where a huge part of your damage will come from. (Also as a plus, 1-2 crusader procs gives a huge bonus to your offhealing.)

    Your stat priority isn't bad. Haste is very valuable which is something I have learned, however, I feel as though it is not worth sacrificing a huge amount of vers (such as what is given from electrocutioner's ring, if that's what you choose) for a very minimal amount of haste. Vers is strong at this level, but as I experience it more, I do see haste outweighing it for ret for a number of reasons (more crusader procs, cast time on heals, etc etc.)

    So as the post stated above, the cloak he linked is a good choice, but might I recommend a properly scaled https://www.wowhead.com/item=4706/lambent-scale-cloak If you can get your hands on this, I believe it to be max strength, and it also gives pure haste.

    For trinkets, do you have the Defending Champion? It gives a passive boost to stam/vers and the cooldown is very useful.

    And lastly, so for talents. I mentioned a bit of it above, but really, it's all up to you. Zeal could be very useful using the stat priority you have laid out, because of more crusader procs. However, Execution Sentence gives more burst potential (in a shorter fight anyways), and it crits very hard with crusader up.

    It seems you have the gist of what ret is all about though. It can perform very well if you're a skilled player, but fury warrior trumps it (by comparison, not really in a dueling sense).

    Good luck, and I hope some of my wall of text is useful to you!
     
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  4. Eleannor

    Eleannor Member

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    I tested Zeal and Templar's Veredict talent in a Patchwork fight. Over 5 minutes, Zeal dealt more damage with less stress (it will also benefit more than T.V. if you can't get in range since the buff stacks).

    I don't think Execution Sentence is even worth because you barely have any holy damage in this level (only Judgement and T.V.) to justify it's long cool down and normal damage. I see E.S. as a ranged T.V. every once in a while.

    To me paladins in this bracket are useful because of their possibility to unleash burst damage or healing (if holy). So I usually try to stack some 5 holy powers and quickly switch to weaker targets to get the kill with 2 Templar's Veredict. With slows and stuns you are the class that will punish overextenders and force kills.
     
  5. ohti

    ohti Member

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    I can't really say all that much to help you

    might want to look into leveling engineering for the master engineer's goggles and any int goggles you might want in case you ever go holy
     
  6. Dethtic

    Dethtic Veteran

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    My paly isn't finished yet but I basically need a versa/haste chest piece and haste cap.
    A good thing for rets is to get haste cap at 11,3% or was it 11,4% haste for them quick 1,3s heals. I also try to get as much versa as possible which seem to work well for me.
    I removed my crit gear with some boe helmet, DM Shoulder plates and bfd leggins. However I feel 5crit from belt is better than the 1str+ verison as you get some crit from shoulder+leg enchants.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/ravencrest/Desmund
     
  7. OP
    silverado

    silverado Member

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    Its 11.2% and you have a 1.3 cast. It's just hard to keep that number when you use things like the Master Engineers Goggles.. and the Claymore.. .and the lugnut... you end up having to use non BiS slots to keep the 11.2 haste... if you don't want to hurt your overall damage as well.
     
  8. Dethtic

    Dethtic Veteran

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    True, its gonna take some work to hit that spot. But its just a few enchant changes and bits n pieces. No visible dmg reduction.
     
  9. OP
    silverado

    silverado Member

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    Going to go for 11.2 Haste and the rest in to Versatility... with the alchemists flask up and master engineering goggles... you just hit like a truck. Some stuff will have to be all jank to hit that number tho :p Giving up raw damage tho is just not the answer... you get 1 or 2 shots with RET to just maim somebody and when your cool-downs are gone you are just worthless damage wise... an unfortunate fact.

    I'm still 100% sold on Touch and the Black brew maiden... I'd rather have those than any other trinket... it's just more options to deal with tier 1 classes. Giving up them for stam and vers from other trinkets is just IMO incorrect.

    I still cant decide on Executioners Sentence or not... the only time I think it really is better than Zeal is when you have all your cooldowns are are trying to kite a single fury warrior... other than that I would rather just have zeal, especially since you have so few actual holy attacks at 29... and since it just shares holy charges with Templar's its meh.
     
  10. Dethtic

    Dethtic Veteran

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    Dunno if you already said you didn't have Defending Champion, but I would take that over the Touch for that 9stam+ !

    I use Executioners Sentence vs ranged 1v1 and Zeal when in grp fights.
     
  11. OP
    silverado

    silverado Member

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    IMO giving up 60 hp for touch of the void and +2 more verse is well worth it.

    Going to see if I can keep the 11.2 with using engineers goggles and the claymore... losing +11 haste tho off each heirloom item NOT used is rough and adds up fast :p.

    At some point tho if you go under 11.2... I feel like you might as well just build like a rogue and just go Attackpower > Versatility > Crit for just the most burst damage... cause your haste is already garbage anyway... and again just makes Zeal all the more attractive. Even if Crits are not that great in PvP.
     
  12. Swoops

    Swoops Grandfathered

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    Haste breakpoints aren't a thing anymore, 11.2% doesn't actually matter @silverado @Dethtic. It just looks like it because the cast time tooltip is rounded to one decimal place. You're totally fine just going with a decent balance of haste/vers if that's what you want, no need to worry about the exact number.
     
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  13. OP
    silverado

    silverado Member

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    at some point 1.3 becomes 1.4 tho, that is a difference. Ret just seems to be less effected by picking one stat like Fury is where you just want HASTE!!!.

    I guess I just want to be able to know what the best route is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  14. Swoops

    Swoops Grandfathered

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    So when the tooltip switches from 1.3 to 1.4, your cast isn't a full 0.1 seconds faster. The actual cast time changes continuously with haste, but the tooltip is rounded (kind of weirdly). Your cast speeds up pretty much just as much going from 10% to 11% as it will going from 11% to 12%, even though the tooltip only changes going 11 to 12. You can see it a little bit better if you use a cast bar addon that lets you show more decimal places.

    It's not gonna make a huge difference from what you're doing, just means you have a bit more freedom to use your best haste/vers gear instead of giving up stats to stay right above that benchmark.
     
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  15. OP
    silverado

    silverado Member

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    Last night I was counting the number of times that the BE racial generating a holy power actually lead to a kill with being able to verdict back to back especially on a healer.... it was a lot. Just fyi.

    Still looking at weapon swapping Combat Claymore with Crusader into Recruits decapitator with Massacre... versus double crusader... it just seems like most of the time you don't get the second crusader.. or you get it with the first one almost gone... so they just don't line up like a Fury warrior can get them. However, Crusader into Massacre is just more damage since you are immediately doing more if you don't get the second proc. This just seems to be one of those thing where people are using theory more than actual in game results... IMO I like Crusader into Massacre, since its guaranteed results... still looking at it.

    Looking at more Vers and Crit over haste. Even at the reduced Crit damage, those Crit-hits are REAL though and people feel them, especially on Rets big ass attacks. Looking into more Crit and Versatility for just bigger hits... Even max haste is not making the cool downs that much more appealing... and even healing Crits sometimes just completely save a buddy.... 1.4 cast versus 1.3 cast... not much difference IMO, since this is not end game PvP.

    My favorite encounters are fighting Boomkins. They just can't kill you. Where they can kite a Fury and just blow him up, you can just heal since they have no interrupt and just keep beating them to death. Even the full Twinks. Plus you occupy 100% of their damage and they have to run for their life.
     
  16. Mdev

    Mdev Member

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    Does haste cap is the same for shamans ?
     
  17. Swoops

    Swoops Grandfathered

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    Nah, it doesn't work like that for anyone.
     
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  18. Mdev

    Mdev Member

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    ok ok so,

    I'm currently @51 haste - 11.94% 1.3sec cast on flash. If i change my gear to 50 haste - 11.71% i got 1.4sec cast on flash tooltip

    This is what i came of, i might be wrong. but i'm sharing :)
     
  19. Swoops

    Swoops Grandfathered

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    The tooltip changes by .1 there, but the actual cast time only goes down by like .003 seconds when you go from 51 to 50 haste.
     
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  20. Mdev

    Mdev Member

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    Well flash cant go lower than 1.3, so 51 haste is haste cap or ? Because if i stack more than 51 it cant go lower right ?

    Using my whole brain to try to understand this xd
     

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