Resurrecting All Brackets

[Healsatin]

u got me. ur incoherent babbling was too much for me.

several points against a merge have been made u simply consider them wrong or irrelevant

First off all nothing in any of my posts is incoherent you just must lack a grasp on the english language. The points for keeping bgs the way they are as brought up in this thread are that you'd rather only have pops during vacation instead of doing wargames during vacation. We don't get pops as it is so just don't que 19s and nothing will change for you if you actually want to do competitive 19s, do wargames. You said that twinks are unhappy and that merging would make them more unhappy, but fail to realize you can easily do wargames with only twinks if you so choose. I am personally unhappy that 19s don't pop at all anymore and unlike you i think a merge would improve my enjoyment of wow. You bring up that we're only talking about low lvl twinks, and you're right because those are the only communities that have ANY significant following today. So i'll address higher lvls too, seeing twinks in higher level bgs is going to be extremely infrequent as most of the people who played those brackets quit or moved on to another bracket years ago so you literally won't get anywhere near the number of complaints related to low lvl bgs (70s and 80-89s don't even pop consistently anymore as far as i can tell). Also higher lvl characters will have an heirloom, green or blue item in EVERY slot that will get scaled up to the same ilvl a twink's gear would be unlike most lvling 10-19s and even to a lesser extent toons lvls 20-29. Since all gear gets scaled to an appropriate ilvl for that bracket it will make higher lvl twinks less effective than their lower level counterparts since the lvlers in low lvl bgs have had less time to gear up before jumping into bgs and the fact that there are simply far less of them than 19s and 29s. You literally just keep repeating yourself saying you want it this way because you're unwilling to put any effort into setting up wargames, at least i'm giving reasoning behind my stance yet you have not addressed wargames once. You don't want the rest of the community to get any pops while you're at school? seems pretty selfish to me. Now i've literally addressed every single post you could have been talking about and i don't see any valid arguments other than "i don't want to set up wargames." Yet you want to stop the potential enjoyment of the rest of the casual twinking community. In case you missed literally every point i made, or if you just are so stubborn you can't accept valid reasoning YOU should reread this thread since you are clearly not understanding my points and have failed to actually address any of them. You swoops willix (even tho he isn't against it, he only said it'll never happen and not that it was a bad idea), rith and skeezin are the only people i saw who were against xp merged bgs in any way and provided very few reasons which have ALL be addressed in this post. Only 3 people are actually against merging bgs in 6 pages. I think it's you who is ignoring the facts at hand.

 

[Rusks]

Honestly I think the gap is still large enough that it'd be a bad idea to merge. Bis 19 rogue vs full geared boa "twink" I had like 70% more agility than he did

 

[Healsatin]

Honestly I think the gap is still large enough that it'd be a bad idea to merge. Bis 19 rogue vs full geared boa "twink" I had like 70% more agility than he did

yeah, the gap between lvlers and twinks is there, but it's not nearly as severe as it once was since all the lvlers gear should scale to the same ilvl our gear does. Even our twinks enchants are severely scaled down and idk who wouldn't enchant their boas with at least something making the only real difference a few enchants which were recently nerfed almost to the ground. I think the merge would be a better idea than letting 19s and all other twink brackets rot until summer since the gap between lvlers and twinks is probably the lowest it's ever been. I don't see how merging xp on and off bgs would be any different than people with enchanted boas now who faceroll their way through bgs vs anyone who doesn't have enchants or boas is more severe than the difference between twinks and those with enchanted boas. Also with the addition of gear scaling it wouldn't be a bad idea to enchant low lvl gear if you're really having that big of an issue with twinks since it scales up with you anyway you can be a lvl 99 with full sfk gear in a bg and still hold your own especially if it's all enchanted with anything.

 

[Eliot]

I'm not sure how bad pops have gotten, I haven't played in a year or so, but this would be less than ideal at level 19 or so I'd say. Though it could work as even those game are rarely balanced.

Interesting idea, but I doubt blizz would support it.

 

[Rusks]

yeah, the gap between lvlers and twinks is there, but it's not nearly as severe as it once was since all the lvlers gear should scale to the same ilvl our gear does. Even our twinks enchants are severely scaled down and idk who wouldn't enchant their boas with at least something making the only real difference a few enchants which were recently nerfed almost to the ground. I think the merge would be a better idea than letting 19s and all other twink brackets rot until summer since the gap between lvlers and twinks is probably the lowest it's ever been. I don't see how merging xp on and off bgs would be any different than people with enchanted boas now who faceroll their way through bgs vs anyone who doesn't have enchants or boas is more severe than the difference between twinks and those with enchanted boas. Also with the addition of gear scaling it wouldn't be a bad idea to enchant low lvl gear if you're really having that big of an issue with twinks since it scales up with you anyway you can be a lvl 99 with full sfk gear in a bg and still hold your own especially if it's all enchanted with anything.

This was a full boa + enchanted boots gloves bracers rings neck ect leveler.

 

[Healsatin]

I'm not sure how bad pops have gotten, I haven't played in a year or so, but this would be less than ideal at level 19 or so I'd say. Though it could work as even those game are rarely balanced.

Interesting idea, but I doubt blizz would support it.

19s bgs are down to like less than monthly, so this is pretty much a last ditch effort to save twinking as a whole. 19s haven't popped consistently (as in every day regardless of anything else) since the end of cata and has been on a serious decline recently without even having a designated day to que wsg. Pops seem to happen absolutely at random with very little or no notice beforehand with ques that are way longer than the 15~ minutes it should be. I think some pops that could bring much needed attention to the bracket are better than no pops at all.

 

[Healsatin]

This was a full boa + enchanted boots gloves bracers rings neck ect leveler.

if someone has all those enchants then there's something wrong with your claim. the only reason that other rogue would have worse stats than you would be a lack of the very enchants that you stated they had. Why did they have so much less agility than you if they were enchanted in every possible slot, it just doesn't make any sense unless your 70% claim is severely exaggerated unless you were enchanted agi and they went full crit or something like that. Was this rogue even 19 and were the stats from a bg? I don't mean to say you're wrong, but that claim just seems absolutely ludicrous to me since you said they were FULLY enchanted.

 

[Rusks]

if someone has all those enchants then there's something wrong with your claim. the only reason that other rogue would have worse stats than you would be a lack of the very enchants that you stated they had. Why did they have so much less agility than you if they were enchanted in every possible slot, it just doesn't make any sense unless your 70% claim is severely exaggerated unless you were enchanted agi and they went full crit or something like that. Was this rogue even 19 and were the stats from a bg? I don't mean to say you're wrong, but that claim just seems absolutely ludicrous to me since you said they were FULLY enchanted.

honestly I didn't really look that hard because nothing stood out about it. He opened on my 16 hunter. I had zerker he had zerker and I had the flag (2stacks). He hit for 650+elemental force. I would have hit 1.2-1.3k+ef on my rogue. All I did was armory him and compare our agility. Yes he was level 19, now he is probably around level 23

 

[Healsatin]

i wish you looked at his other stats and his enchants since you're making a little bit of a ridiculous claim that your rogue has 70% more agi than someone who's in full enchants. It seems to me he just stacked crit or any other stat and there's no way you'd "hit" for over 1k with a rogue maybe a really lucky crit with zerker, but i'm thinking that he just didn't crit with ambush and stacked secondary stats which would explain the lower ambush and lower agi also i'm pretty sure what spec he is influences how much agi he will have something you have not mentioned yet.

 

[Rusks]

i wish you looked at his other stats and his enchants since you're making a little bit of a ridiculous claim that your rogue has 70% more agi than someone who's in full enchants. It seems to me he just stacked crit or any other stat and there's no way you'd "hit" for over 1k with a rogue maybe a really lucky crit with zerker, but i'm thinking that he just didn't crit with ambush and stacked secondary stats which would explain the lower ambush and lower agi also i'm pretty sure what spec he is influences how much agi he will have something you have not mentioned yet.

Its really not an exaggeration last ambush I remember was a 5stack EFC for 1.3k and I did have 70% more agi than he had


okay, the enchant differences on his current armory are haste on gloves 5ap loss and Stam on bracers 3agi loss. Haste enchants instead of versatility.

 

[Healsatin]

yeah my point was that he probably "hit" while you probably "crit" and you are completely ignoring all secondary stats which may have exceeded your own. The disparity really isn't 70% as your post seems to claim that simply cannot be true for a character that has enchants for EVERY slot like you claim this rogue did. I'm merely saying that your figure seems extremely exaggerated and doesn't take into account secondary stats at all or his spec which if i'm not mistaken can influence their agility fairly significantly

 

[l30t53dd6p]

Eu forums had several threads like this, they come and go but people just don't care. Sad part is that most of these people with the same ideas are gone too.

Give twink PvP back please! - Forums - World of Warcraft

 

[Healsatin]

so you won't even read my posts yet you claim they don't address your points of which you have so few. You claim you want competitive pugs during vacations and i have repeatedly stated that you will still have that option with wargames, i don't get why you absolutely refuse to accept that fact or even acknowledge it at all.

My main point about higher lvl brackets was that the amount of twinks left in those brackets is negligible and at least people in those brackets are almost guaranteed to at least have something that's at least green to get scaled up compared to 10-19s without heirlooms who should get stomped more than anyone in a higher lvl bracket with scaled up gear simply because they don't have gear that is capable of scaling up yet. The only gear i can think of that is actually above the scaled ilvls in a bracket is the insane lvl 80 and 85 gear, but i haven't checked what ilvl it scales gear to in every bracket, only the ones i actually play in. Of course lvlers aren't going to be quite as good as twinks, but my point was it won't be as faceroll as it was before the xp on xp off merge happened in the first place.
Everyone you said is on your side has given either no argument or a vague reason as to why they don't want bgs merged without even acknowledging that competitive pugs can still easily be achieved through wargames.

Don't worry man i found your reasons (which you'd know if you actually read my posts instead of commenting on them without reading), but they just don't seem valid enough to me just like apparently my counterarguments don't seem valid to you or maybe you just haven't read them.

1.yeah disparity in gear will exist, but like even you acknowledged it'll be less than it was before the bg merge which will lead to significantly less complaints from levelers than they previously experienced especially since the activity of all twink brackets seems to be at an all time low meaning there will be way less twinks in bgs than there were before. You don't knowledge that most people put enchants on their heirlooms which will close the gap between twinks and lvlers even more. There's a huge disparity in gear at lvl 100 between fresh 100s and fully geared people, so i don't see how a gear disparity in other brackets is an issue. Most fresh 100s have 0 enchants and their gear gets scaled significantly lower than even the blue pvp gear.

2. This is hardly a reason to stop the bg merge. Simply because we are more experienced than some levelers you don't want anyone to get pops? Yes, twinks do actually try but that's something that every single player should strive to do. Everyone has access to consumables and i've seen countless people stacked with potions and chugging speed pots while leveling. Have you forgotten about the high level scrolls that plagued xp on bgs for the longest time? Consumables are nothing new they've been around for 10 years and will be around for as long as wow is in existence. Also very few 19s actually use consumables consistently and yeah some twinks will do anything and everything possible to get the edge on their opponents, but that's what twinking is literally all about. People who don't play bgs objectively deserve to lose, i don't get how you're claiming this as a valid argument. Although you may not play bgs objectively, i assure you that most players at least know they should do it even the newbies. Who enters a capture the flag match without the expectation that they should do their best to cap the and/or return the flag. The literal description of wsg is "capture the flag."
3 A great deal of levelers if not the vast majority of them already have a max level or at least a high character. Do you notice how many people have heirlooms in xp on bgs nowadays? it's nearly all of them meaning that they should have enough experience with the game as a whole to hold their own. In fact they could be multiglads just lvling an alt who would have way more experience than the average twink and may have been playing YOUR class for years even potentially knowing things about it you don't. Anyone who's played at max level at all should have a basic understanding of class matchups and yeah most of them may not have quite the experience twinks do but that's like saying fully geared 100s shouldn't be able to que random bgs because they know more about the game than a fresh 100.
4. This in my opinion is your strongest point by far. You're right some levelers probably won't like having twinks in their bgs and I have not personally asked any levelers but as someone who frequently levels toons i wouldn't care at all if there were twinks in xp on bgs. There are a great deal of people leveling with fully enchanted heirlooms simply to faceroll, and i really don't see the difference between them and what twinks would be. We would merely be replacing one evil with another so to speak. Twinks would farm lvlers just like people in enchanted heirlooms farm all the other lvlers as it is now so there really would be very little change to the current state of lvling bgs. You fail to realize this may reintroduce twinking to the masses who may find way more enjoyment out of it than endgame or even leveling. There are so many other, faster ways to level that doing so through bgs is a complete and utter waste of time anyway so if someone gets frustrated they can easily just not do bgs while leveling if it really infuriates them that much

the bg merge would only increase 19s activity let alone all other twink brackets and help facilitate competitive wargames which if i'm not mistaken is what you want, likely much more frequently than just during vacations so that the entire community can enjoy them year round instead of having complete lapses in activity randomly throughout the year.

I'm glad you actually came up with reasons this time instead of just saying "you're wrong" in a single sentence without any further discussion.

 

[Lúffy]

As a dedicated twinker since around 2008 i agree with Møçhá. Blizzard has fixed the Enchant scaling. They have added gear scaling. Trial accounts are able to get BoA(Bind on Account) now. You can also buy with gold. Twinks deserve to be merged back with the levelers. Twinks are no longer a GIANT leap over levelers now that scaling has been added to the game. We just simply want to play what we have poured out heart and soul into.

2008-2015 Is a long time don't you think we deserve a chance again?

From Forums.

Its True we have been through alot i fully agree and want a second chance

 

[Ebah]

bump.

 

[Xercules]

I would at the very least like for this to happen to the 30-39 and 40-49 brackets. Those are completely dead as far as I know. I especially would love to see the revival of the 39 bracket!

 

[Aintabanka]

I don't see how people have issues with this, especially when the competitive side is their argument. We have wargames now anyways and if you're that concerned, kick it old school and sync queues.