Mocha
Legendary
Click Here And Show Your Support If You Want Constant PUG Pops!
Recently I made a post in a similar thread. Although they may be similar threads, they do not by any means have the same goal, content, direction, or discussion so I'm dropping in a new thread. If you'd like to respond to the below discussion, feel free to do so.
Long story short... If we can somehow convince Blizzard to let EXP on players play with EXP off players in battlegrounds, every single twink bracket would be instantly resurrected overnight. The communities wouldn't be nearly as thriving as they were back in say, 2008, but there would be new life to previously dead communities nevertheless and that is a very special thing for anyone who has a passion for twinking.
Let me start by saying a very bold statement:
Here is what killed twink brackets:
Simply merging brackets to a more concentrated state
Although GY farming helped to finish off some brackets, it is by no means the ONLY reason why some brackets are gone.
Back in the day, realms PvPd together and did not PvP against other realms. Back at this time, every realm had MANY twink guilds. There were SO many guilds on nearly every single server... It was insane. Then they took down the barriers between realms and created battlegroups where now a handful of realms played together. What this did was created super guilds where guilds would merge and and there were dominant guilds in every battlegroup. Battlegroups did not play against each other so every battlegroup had their own unique level of competition and their own super guilds.
In Vengeance at this time (my home battlegroup), we still had MANY guilds per sever because Vengeance really is the source of 19 twinking as weird as that may sound. Without Vengeance twinkers, we would not have had Pwndepot, Twinkinfo, most if not all exploits originated in Vengeance between the realm Kul'Tiras and the realm Akama. We really had some of the most insane 19s and they paved the road for 19s. Keep in mind, Vengeance twinkers were scroll clicking back when people still were keyboard turners and clickers. Through word of mouth and PvP between battlegroups on the PTR, people found out what was really going on in Vengeance and picked up on some of our tactics. Then we moved to Cyclone back in TBC and a lot of twinkers over there were pretty much up to speed with what was going on back on Vengeance. Cyclone buzz died down and a lot of players went to Ruin (you can thank Drayner for this as he is responsible for creating the buzz which brought over most players from Cyclone and Vengeance.
Now when EXP lock became an option, it did 2 things for twinking: 1) it made it extremely easy and idiot proof to make a twink. 2) It killed pops on every single battlegroup besides Ruin. Although, there were MANY twinks back in the day, we needed the levelers to get pops as most games did not have more than 3 twinks per game and we always had at least 5 games going at once. It was instant pops all day long for 19s... Then exp toggle became a thing and now we had to sync queues between all of us to get a single pop after waiting in queue for a few hours. After a few days, 19s died on every battlegroup besides ruin.
Now we're looking at the entire 19 player base having to exist in one single battlegroup. What this did was basically created a small handful of Vengeance All-Star guilds and a small handful of Cyclone All-Star guilds to go against the small handful of Ruin All-Star guilds. This is WOTLk at this point and premades are happening often. Vengeance basically formed 1 guild on Skullcrusher known as Shield Bashed By Heysus (although we had a few other trial guilds such as Don't Talk Back To Silin etc before we really landed this Vengeance all-star guild) and we had the Ally guild on Zul Jin.
SO if you take a step back, looking at ONLY Vengeance... we've seen it go from having MANY twink guilds on every server in Vengeance, all the way down to only 1 Horde guild on Skullcrusher and 1 Ally guild on ZJ. The entire Vengeance community filtered down into 2 faction specific All-Star guilds. The same occurrence happened for the other former battlegroups that moved over to Ruin.
The problem is, many 19 twinkers quit at this point because they did not want to go to Ruin which was notes for having insane epeen and insane levels of Drama and elitism. Believe me, our Vengeance players were all about elitism, but we understood the community's needs and we would always play with amazing sportsmanlike conduct. Sure we would farm the heck out of levelers, but there were also some games where we would hide and then pop out and scare the heck out of them and then help them win against us. it was about fun... not winning in PUGs. Premades, oh my god you better bet yourself we rolled into every single Premade with 10 charges of really sticky glue, every buff obtainable at 19, demonic runestones, Halaani Whisky, the whole 9 yards.
Every time barriers in the twinking community were taken down, we compressed in numbers and as guilds and good players were either benched or just quit. We were filtered down to 1 battlegroup and lost a lot of members doing so.
Fastforward to Cata where now we're seeing ENDLESS GY farming in our ONLY battlegroup and I know there are several hundred 19 twinkers who quit because it's disgusting to see what 19s had become. We literally farmed ourselves into inactivity and we literally killed our own community by treating pugs like premades and farming our own community dry.
None of this is speculation. This is all factual information. There is no arguing against anything I've said here besides maybe a few exaggerations I've made, but in essence this post is 100% factual. If you don't take this post as accurate, chances are it's because your vision is still clouded by competition and you refuse to see that our own drive for elitism and competition is what drove the nail in the coffin. Blizzard downsized our entire community and we finished it off.
NOW if we can get Blizzard to remove the EXP separation between battlegrounds, every single twink bracket would be thriving once again and we'd have instant pops on nearly every single bracket. This is fact. If we made this happen, every bracket would be active once again. We wouldn't have the separation between battlegroups so our numbers would be condensed almost as if it were 1 battlegroup, but that will still be a huge step up from where we are now.
This is where we should be and should have been focusing our efforts on doing since Cataclysm. I'm not the best with trying to argue against Blizzard and I'm not sure if petitions actually hold any weight... But I'm sure we can at least be heard by Blizzard by some way or another. This is something that I've made very little progress with on my own and with me being a casual twinker, it's hard to have the drive to push this when I retired my competitive attitude back in 2009.
Please disregard the lack of formalities... I'm really just typing in a more casual manner.
TLDR: Yo. We have to try to get Blizzard to merge exp on with exp off players for battlegrounds if we want every bracket to have 100% reliable pops.
Cheers,
Mocha
Recently I made a post in a similar thread. Although they may be similar threads, they do not by any means have the same goal, content, direction, or discussion so I'm dropping in a new thread. If you'd like to respond to the below discussion, feel free to do so.
Long story short... If we can somehow convince Blizzard to let EXP on players play with EXP off players in battlegrounds, every single twink bracket would be instantly resurrected overnight. The communities wouldn't be nearly as thriving as they were back in say, 2008, but there would be new life to previously dead communities nevertheless and that is a very special thing for anyone who has a passion for twinking.
Let me start by saying a very bold statement:
Here is what killed twink brackets:
Simply merging brackets to a more concentrated state
Although GY farming helped to finish off some brackets, it is by no means the ONLY reason why some brackets are gone.
Back in the day, realms PvPd together and did not PvP against other realms. Back at this time, every realm had MANY twink guilds. There were SO many guilds on nearly every single server... It was insane. Then they took down the barriers between realms and created battlegroups where now a handful of realms played together. What this did was created super guilds where guilds would merge and and there were dominant guilds in every battlegroup. Battlegroups did not play against each other so every battlegroup had their own unique level of competition and their own super guilds.
In Vengeance at this time (my home battlegroup), we still had MANY guilds per sever because Vengeance really is the source of 19 twinking as weird as that may sound. Without Vengeance twinkers, we would not have had Pwndepot, Twinkinfo, most if not all exploits originated in Vengeance between the realm Kul'Tiras and the realm Akama. We really had some of the most insane 19s and they paved the road for 19s. Keep in mind, Vengeance twinkers were scroll clicking back when people still were keyboard turners and clickers. Through word of mouth and PvP between battlegroups on the PTR, people found out what was really going on in Vengeance and picked up on some of our tactics. Then we moved to Cyclone back in TBC and a lot of twinkers over there were pretty much up to speed with what was going on back on Vengeance. Cyclone buzz died down and a lot of players went to Ruin (you can thank Drayner for this as he is responsible for creating the buzz which brought over most players from Cyclone and Vengeance.
Now when EXP lock became an option, it did 2 things for twinking: 1) it made it extremely easy and idiot proof to make a twink. 2) It killed pops on every single battlegroup besides Ruin. Although, there were MANY twinks back in the day, we needed the levelers to get pops as most games did not have more than 3 twinks per game and we always had at least 5 games going at once. It was instant pops all day long for 19s... Then exp toggle became a thing and now we had to sync queues between all of us to get a single pop after waiting in queue for a few hours. After a few days, 19s died on every battlegroup besides ruin.
Now we're looking at the entire 19 player base having to exist in one single battlegroup. What this did was basically created a small handful of Vengeance All-Star guilds and a small handful of Cyclone All-Star guilds to go against the small handful of Ruin All-Star guilds. This is WOTLk at this point and premades are happening often. Vengeance basically formed 1 guild on Skullcrusher known as Shield Bashed By Heysus (although we had a few other trial guilds such as Don't Talk Back To Silin etc before we really landed this Vengeance all-star guild) and we had the Ally guild on Zul Jin.
SO if you take a step back, looking at ONLY Vengeance... we've seen it go from having MANY twink guilds on every server in Vengeance, all the way down to only 1 Horde guild on Skullcrusher and 1 Ally guild on ZJ. The entire Vengeance community filtered down into 2 faction specific All-Star guilds. The same occurrence happened for the other former battlegroups that moved over to Ruin.
The problem is, many 19 twinkers quit at this point because they did not want to go to Ruin which was notes for having insane epeen and insane levels of Drama and elitism. Believe me, our Vengeance players were all about elitism, but we understood the community's needs and we would always play with amazing sportsmanlike conduct. Sure we would farm the heck out of levelers, but there were also some games where we would hide and then pop out and scare the heck out of them and then help them win against us. it was about fun... not winning in PUGs. Premades, oh my god you better bet yourself we rolled into every single Premade with 10 charges of really sticky glue, every buff obtainable at 19, demonic runestones, Halaani Whisky, the whole 9 yards.
Every time barriers in the twinking community were taken down, we compressed in numbers and as guilds and good players were either benched or just quit. We were filtered down to 1 battlegroup and lost a lot of members doing so.
Fastforward to Cata where now we're seeing ENDLESS GY farming in our ONLY battlegroup and I know there are several hundred 19 twinkers who quit because it's disgusting to see what 19s had become. We literally farmed ourselves into inactivity and we literally killed our own community by treating pugs like premades and farming our own community dry.
None of this is speculation. This is all factual information. There is no arguing against anything I've said here besides maybe a few exaggerations I've made, but in essence this post is 100% factual. If you don't take this post as accurate, chances are it's because your vision is still clouded by competition and you refuse to see that our own drive for elitism and competition is what drove the nail in the coffin. Blizzard downsized our entire community and we finished it off.
NOW if we can get Blizzard to remove the EXP separation between battlegrounds, every single twink bracket would be thriving once again and we'd have instant pops on nearly every single bracket. This is fact. If we made this happen, every bracket would be active once again. We wouldn't have the separation between battlegroups so our numbers would be condensed almost as if it were 1 battlegroup, but that will still be a huge step up from where we are now.
This is where we should be and should have been focusing our efforts on doing since Cataclysm. I'm not the best with trying to argue against Blizzard and I'm not sure if petitions actually hold any weight... But I'm sure we can at least be heard by Blizzard by some way or another. This is something that I've made very little progress with on my own and with me being a casual twinker, it's hard to have the drive to push this when I retired my competitive attitude back in 2009.
Please disregard the lack of formalities... I'm really just typing in a more casual manner.
TLDR: Yo. We have to try to get Blizzard to merge exp on with exp off players for battlegrounds if we want every bracket to have 100% reliable pops.
Cheers,
Mocha
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