Regarding GY Jumps for the Twink Cup
- Thread starter anatomyx
- Start date
Darkchewie
2014 & 2015 TC Champion
I was under the impression that the video made was agreed upon to be silly and therefore the rules committee changed the rules to state that and im paraphrasing "any jump is allowed that you can do without the assist of gob jump", except utilizing the new gy fences"
I wasn't aware that people were using this jump to get on top of the gy until very recently as I had assumed like everyone else that all jumps utilizing the GY were forbidden.
i think it very simply should be stated you can cannot use jumps to get on top of the gy or to move from GY to above as once again, this jump heavily favors poor mid play because they can wipe and it doesnt matter because you're flag will be in the gy WITH THE DRUID rather than passed to a member who had died.
simply amend the rules to state what i said above and at least make teams pass the flag to the gy above so there's some risk to the obvious, amazing reward of ignoring your teams mid wipe.
edit - All tunnel, fence, and stump jumps are allowed, and people are allowed to use jumps to take them anywhere on the map that they would be able to get to without jumping. Using class abilities, goblin jump, toys, or anything else to take you somewhere that you can only get to using these abilities is not allowed. All jumps using the new graveyard walls are forbidden. The following video provides an example of some permitted jumps.
simply amend this to say all jumps using the graveyard walls and fences are forbidden...
i can't honestly believe people think that allowing these gyard jumps are good for gameplay, but hey someone be my guest and explain to me why it's good im all ears.
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Boostz
Boostz or Boots
The jump wasn't made aware to the community en masse until recently. We're not Wizards, we can't predict things like that. It is a new issue that's arised and needs to be dealt with.
While I imagine organizing a tournament of this size is very difficult, I personally feel you've been very quiet and INCREDIBLY difficult to get information from and just seem unavailable to people. You haven't been very transparent in your role.
This isn't to say you're doing a bad job, it's just also incredibly frustrating for us as a community, let alone players in the twink cup who have to spam for your attention to be able to clarify some pretty easy things.
anatomyx
Legend
Quoting to stress that THIS is the reason why people are upset about the GY jumps. The fact that this is possible on Alliance too is cool and all, but that doesn't mean the jumps should still be allowed from a gameplay standpoint.
For those who don't actually premade or understand why this is so bad, here's a scenario of a game:
Team A and team B are fighting in midfield. Team A starts to land some kills, pushing team B back into the graveyard. Team B's FC jumps up into the graveyard and now is untouchable while his team regroups. Team B completely rezzes and pushes team A back across the field. Team A's FC now jumps into his GY and is untouchable.
The reason I say "untouchable" is because that's essentially what it is - the team pushing the other into the GY cannot do the jump themselves or they'll just get killed instantly by the people who are turtling in the GY that just rezzed, therefore the FC is safe every single time. If your team is playing badly you SHOULD be punished for it, not have a get out of jail free card every time something bad happens.
As I've already said, we should just make the video created specifically for this discussion the RULEBOOK for jumps. What was the point of even making a video for jumps if we are just randomly going to have exceptions to the rules? Make it so anything not shown in the video is not allowed, no exceptions, and we instantly kill this entire discussion and we can all be happy move on.
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Rusks
Legend
Boostz
Boostz or Boots
That's just honestly a really poor response. It's quite common knowledge that the only 'old' 19 teams are SR/Harvest. You're looking at 6-7 teams playing in the tournament that came into the bracket a few months ago.
Darkchewie
2014 & 2015 TC Champion
I like your thoughts on the topic, but banning all jumps not in the video will lead to even stickier waters than we are in. Don't put so much emphasis on the video. At this point, the video simply shows some jumps that can be done (its a glorified "hey look here's some things you CAN do). They changed the rules to allow ALL jumps as long as u can get to that point by other means (i.e. walking around to it). The stipulation is the gob jumps are banned. That's all very simple to my ears.
All that needs to be changed is to amend the current gyard jump rules to include WALLS AND FENCES.. problem solved.
anatomyx
Legend
Either solution works, but banning everything outside the video is probably the easiest solution just so we don't run into a problem like this again. Who knows what other jumps are out there that people are "hiding" and plan to use during the cup to give their team some sort of advantage.
If the rule is changed to include graveyard walls I'll be more than happy though, they REALLY need to be banned or a lot of games are going to turn into a joke.
Bake
Grandfathered
I agree, I completely thought all gy jumps were banned to be honset, and this gives one team the advantage over the other considering the horde jump is in the back of the gy, however the alliance is in front of the gy. Meaning there is no room for error for the team on the alliance side, opposed to the horde team. I agree that these jumps should be banned, and maybe instead of going through the rules committee there could be a poll considering this is something brought up by the community. These jumps were fair at the time of the rules, but now that the walls provide los there needs to be time for change. For example, the Marksman hunter buff. Now every team can only have one marksman hunter because of the buff to them. You can look at this at the same way saying the gy got buffed and as a community we can make our own rules to even out the play fields. The reason why there are rules so there is no advantage to other teams. However, no matter how you look at it, horde has the advantage on the jump considering for a fc to position themselves better than the alliance compared to the; alliance spot would be putting the team at jeopardy. And also I believe the community did not address this weeks ago because these new walls are fairly new and these jumps had been used to give one team an overly unfair advantage for the first time. Please reconsider the rule, and if it need be shall a community poll take the path of justice.
If at least one member of every guild competing could share their opinions that would be great too.
If at least one member of every guild competing could share their opinions that would be great too.
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Rusks
Legend
alliance has one in front and one behind and horde has the same
front alliance http://www.twitch.tv/tacochampion/v/8472174
back alliance http://www.twitch.tv/tacochampion/v/8475057
Muskie
OG
not to take sides on my own doing jumps or not, but its common knowledge you dont want your fc doing any jumps.
this is frustrating to me because i emphasized the question of "are gy jumps banned?" in the other thread two or three times, as well as bumped it weeks later saying we should be clear on the rules. I saw what was legal, did research, spent time practicing, and learned how to do jumps within the rules. Been doing this for quite some time now as well.
I'll be honest though, I started doing them on stream so that people would raise concern now instead of during the twinkcup because people didnt seem to realize what the rules were. You guys should read through the old thread, because all the arguments of skill in jumps, having practiced jumps, knowing jumps etc were brought forward. also, i assume hass's thread is about this topic as well
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Darkchewie
2014 & 2015 TC Champion
The concern with this jump is that it allows you to get inside an already broken fence that has done nothing but hurt the bracket. This jump allows for ease of access into said graveyard walls/fence and doesn't promote a healthy gameplay environment.
I believe that the current jump rules were made prior to the new walls going up? Correct me if I am wrong.
anatomyx
Legend
If this is the case then I'm really glad you chose to do this. If we'd waited until the cup and a team pulled this out against us randomly one game I honestly would start raging because in my opinion gy jumps are really really stupid, so I'm very happy this has come to light for everyone to see. It sucks that you put in the time to practice them but I don't think there's any counter-argument that can be made when we say that these jumps really affect gameplay negatively.
Believe me, if I knew these existed a month ago I would have been bitching back then too, but since I don't queue pugs very often because i don't find any enjoyment in them I had no idea.
Now all I can hope for is that they're banned from now on. There's clearly a large amount of people who want them gone, and the only people I've seen who actually want them in are players who aren't even participating in the cup
you are correct
diddleme
Grandfathered
A simple fix would be no gy jumps. Thats the easiest and that is how I interpreted the rules. That seems the easiest and most realistic solution to me. That being said I am not participating either and it may benefit teams with poor mid play but you should make a team that performs well in mid if you plan to be competitive in this bracket
Rusks
Legend
Right and wrong
They were made prior to the fences but then edited a week or so after fences had been implemented to state that no gy fence jumps were okay.
The rules say you can get into the gy anyway you want
anatomyx
Legend
yes ok, and we're requesting that the rules be slightly altered to ban gy jumps because they severely affect gameplay in a negative way due to the fences
Hobbes
Grandfathered
Lol y'all fighting over baby issues. Just learn the jumps. It's ezpz. And ppl shouldn't hide the flag in gy. Personally there are two places near both bases which make the flag untouchable cuz it's outta Los. And NO ONE knows it xcept. Me. Im gunna join the 19 bracket and see what the fuss about. If problem persists I gunna make a vid of EVERY exploit. Just PM me of mid night premades
Bake
Grandfathered
The issue that I find here from anyone who is on the rules committee, is that I made a video of jumps that I questioned if they were allowed because I thought tasselhoof's video was limited; and I was informed by conq earlier in that thread to make a video. However, making the video did not do anything yet it was just ignored. Now we come to a spot where 3 of the top favorite guilds Skill Ratio, JCM, and WFS have an issue with the rules because its game changing compared to passing the flag up to the gy. I also have no clue who is on the rules committee, I think this should have been stated, correct me if it was. But, WFS has no representation on the rules committee or any decisions for the cup so the interpretation of the rules that we saw we thought were right because that jump was never in the video.
Wtb community poll (or) Representation from every guild to make a decision here.
I think it is pretty clear that teams would prefer using the pass into gy because that is what we've been practicing and that is what everyone thought was allowed.
Wtb community poll (or) Representation from every guild to make a decision here.
I think it is pretty clear that teams would prefer using the pass into gy because that is what we've been practicing and that is what everyone thought was allowed.
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