Questions about 20 twink

ns66

Member
Hi all, my vet account sub is going to expire soon, I am gearing up a 20 twink running WoD, to play BG after sub expires, my question is, I checked now the BG queues xp-on off are separated, with xp-on the BG queue is not bad, less than 10 mins, is there any problem with that?

also I am considering level a toon that can be tank/self heal and solo WoD to gear up, is that doable? what classes will be best? right now I am thinking Warrior (eventually want to BG at 20 as well), thoughts?

thanks
 
Before your sub expires, make sure your xp is ENABLED on your 20s

Then after a brief period after account expiration, your account will become veteran status
 
yeah will do, I read on this forum lots of complains about the queues are separated? that should be a good thing for 20 twinks right?
 
ns66 said:
I am confused, if I turn on xp before sub expires, shouldn't my 20 be in xp-on queue?
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Well that’s exactly the issue and part of the complaint.

They used to be in xp-on, now they are considered xp-disabled. (Even though xp is enabled)

In The final 2 months of shadowlands right as wrath classic came out this change was made. It was unannounced. It basically killed the 20s pvp community.
 
Chops said:
that used to be the way it worked but blizzard decided several months ago that F2P and Vet accounts should be in the xp-off que.
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ouch, I am glad I asked, so before my sub expires, turn on or off xp doesn't matter? I will always be in xp-off queue...
then all bets are off, the bg queue will be horrible for my 20, and there's no point grinding WoD to gear up, sigh
I guess now the after sub expire play will be gear up a toon just for the sake of gearing up... lol
 
chelly said:
Well that’s exactly the issue and part of the complaint.

They used to be in xp-on, now they are considered xp-disabled. (Even though xp is enabled)

In The final 2 months of shadowlands right as wrath classic came out this change was made. It was unannounced. It basically killed the 20s pvp community.
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yeah I can imagine that, basically they want to kill F2P... the only F2P I can imagine is level a toon to 10 and dominate WoD dungeons and gear up to all epics, just for fun... or I can still gear up 20 hopefully in the future blizzard will put them back in xp-on queue (did this switch back and forth happen before?)
 
ns66 said:
turn on or off xp doesn't matter?
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well, you cant que for BGs at all with your xp turned off and no game time. Turn your xp on before your sub ends. But yes, you'll still be placed in the xp-off que.
I have no idea what the que times are like but yea, pvp is gonna be a rough go as a 20.

The good news is, 20 twinking is cool. Theres a ton of content to do, you'll have a blast.
 
Chops said:
well, you cant que for BGs at all with your xp turned off and no game time. Turn your xp on before your sub ends. But yes, you'll still be placed in the xp-off que.
I have no idea what the que times are like but yea, pvp is gonna be a rough go as a 20.

The good news is, 20 twinking is cool. Theres a ton of content to do, you'll have a blast.
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good to know, I tried with xp-off, the queue is like 30+ mins, and after I got in, it's like 5 alliance vs 1 horde, it's a joke, lol
maybe will try pve content and learn some new classes...
 
ns66 said:
yeah I can imagine that, basically they want to kill F2P... the only F2P I can imagine is level a toon to 10 and dominate WoD dungeons and gear up to all epics, just for fun... or I can still gear up 20 hopefully in the future blizzard will put them back in xp-on queue (did this switch back and forth happen before?)
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Take my words of copium with a grain of salt. But I actually think it was an unintended change.

Blizzard basically announced/released classic wrath with combined xp-on and off queues during the exact same timeframe that the retail queue behavior for f2p were changed.

My theory is that somebody tinkered with these settings on the backend and somehow unknowingly put us in this position.

That or it was on their to do list for years and they never got to it. Who knows
 
chelly said:
Take my words of copium with a grain of salt. But I actually think it was an unintended change.

Blizzard basically announced/released classic wrath with combined xp-on and off queues during the exact same timeframe that the retail queue behavior for f2p were changed.

My theory is that somebody tinkered with these settings on the backend and somehow unknowingly put us in this position.

That or it was on their to do list for years and they never got to it. Who knows
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don't know if it's unintended mistake, if so they likely would have fixed it
I think it's their constant pursuit of wanting to make more money, that's for sure, but it's not a clear cut path going forward, killing 20 pvp is a way to force players to pay up, but at the same time alienate lots of vet players, for example i haven't played wow for 6 years since legion, I totally forgot about wow, since I didn't know 20 twink is a thing, if I can play 20 twink everyday, I most likely have subbed way earlier, it's a double edged sword. I just hope they see the F2P population goes down and ends up getting less people less interest in wow, and ends up getting less revenue (since there are tons of free to play games out there), maybe they will re-activate 20 pvp to retain players, we can surely hope, lol
 
ns66 said:
don't know if it's unintended mistake, if so they likely would have fixed it
I think it's their constant pursuit of wanting to make more money, that's for sure, but it's not a clear cut path going forward, killing 20 pvp is a way to force players to pay up, but at the same time alienate lots of vet players, for example i haven't played wow for 6 years since legion, I totally forgot about wow, since I didn't know 20 twink is a thing, if I can play 20 twink everyday, I most likely have subbed way earlier, it's a double edged sword. I just hope they see the F2P population goes down and ends up getting less people less interest in wow, and ends up getting less revenue (since there are tons of free to play games out there), maybe they will re-activate 20 pvp to retain players, we can surely hope, lol
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Who knows. The only counter argument to it being intentional is that f2p in its current form has been around for 11 years or so by the time this xp-disabled issue came around last august. The opportunity to force people to pay up would have been much larger a few years ago, in previous expansions.

It’s just strange timing I feel like, especially given their revisiting of combining brackets for classic wrath.

At the end of the day who knows. I doubt even blizzard does.
 
chelly said:
Who knows. The only counter argument to it being intentional is that f2p in its current form has been around for 11 years or so by the time this xp-disabled issue came around last august. The opportunity to force people to pay up would have been much larger a few years ago, in previous expansions.

It’s just strange timing I feel like, especially given their revisiting of combining brackets for classic wrath.

At the end of the day who knows. I doubt even blizzard does.
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Its very simple. F2P and Vets were a problem. SL was an expansion marked by rampant exploiting, glitching, creative use of game mechanics and... lets call it "finessing" GMs to gain advantages over other players. Vets werent really a problem until midway through BFA and then F2Ps werent really a problem until SL. It *seems* like it took them 11 years to deal with us but really, we were a non issue until 20s were the last game in town just about 3 years ago. It only really took them ~1 xpac to decide what to do with us.

The lowest cost solution, both in development hours and monetary cost, was just to remove us from xp-on ques where we'd encounter regular players and just push us off into the twink corner where (quite frankly) we belong.

Worth noting that the development teams for wow classic and retail are two different teams so while the coincidence in timing is there, it is just a coincidence. The classic team admitted that classic doesnt have the population to proc low level BG ques without combining both xp-on and xp-off populations. They said *exactly* that in their announcement and that they'd rather levelers experience the occasional frustrating BG rather than have no BGs at all.

This is very different from the world of retail twinking where the population is more than capable of sustaining low level BGs without the couple dozen or so people still twinking at 20.

I know you *really* want to believe it's unintended but I have zero doubts that it was intentional and am mostly convinced it'll never change
 
Chops said:
Its very simple. F2P and Vets were a problem. SL was an expansion marked by rampant exploiting, glitching, creative use of game mechanics and... lets call it "finessing" GMs to gain advantages over other players. Vets werent really a problem until midway through BFA and then F2Ps werent really a problem until SL. It *seems* like it took them 11 years to deal with us but really, we were a non issue until 20s were the last game in town just about 3 years ago. It only really took them ~1 xpac to decide what to do with us.

The lowest cost solution, both in development hours and monetary cost, was just to remove us from xp-on ques where we'd encounter regular players and just push us off into the twink corner where (quite frankly) we belong.

Worth noting that the development teams for wow classic and retail are two different teams so while the coincidence in timing is there, it is just a coincidence. The classic team admitted that classic doesnt have the population to proc low level BG ques without combining both xp-on and xp-off populations. They said *exactly* that in their announcement and that they'd rather levelers experience the occasional frustrating BG rather than have no BGs at all.

This is very different from the world of retail twinking where the population is more than capable of sustaining low level BGs without the couple dozen or so people still twinking at 20.

I know you *really* want to believe it's unintended but I have zero doubts that it was intentional and am mostly convinced it'll never change
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maybe with microsoft's deal, things could change
also the biggest issue with me is there's no queue and population in bg, I don't mind fighting a 29 twink, in fact I would think with those paying accounts, few will play 29 twink instead of 70, but 20 will still be the majority, but why F2P 20's just don't show up and stop playing, that's the sad part
 
ns66 said:
why F2P 20's just don't show up and stop playing, that's the sad part
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In general, most F2Ps play F2P because of the pve-hero aspect of it. The popularity of vets only lasted as long as they were the most powerful twinking option available (8.1.5 till about... what, 9.2?)

When ques were merged and 29s became the most powerful option, most of the people who were playing vets swapped to 29s. Its not that F2Ps stopped playing. most still do. its just that random BGs are a very small part of the appeal for them ands always have been. Most are out there collecting mounts/pets/achievements/fishing/etc

If you're interested in 20 pvp, there are a couple threads around here of people trying to organize the population to get wargames and arenas
 
Chops said:
In general, most F2Ps play F2P because of the pve-hero aspect of it. The popularity of vets only lasted as long as they were the most powerful twinking option available (8.1.5 till about... what, 9.2?)

When ques were merged and 29s became the most powerful option, most of the people who were playing vets swapped to 29s. Its not that F2Ps stopped playing. most still do. its just that random BGs are a very small part of the appeal for them ands always have been. Most are out there collecting mounts/pets/achievements/fishing/etc

If you're interested in 20 pvp, there are a couple threads around here of people trying to organize the population to get wargames and arenas
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I mean there must be a huge population of wow players with sub expired out there, they can't do much, not much mounts/pets/achievements they can do, the only thing they can do is play up to 20, so I would imagine 20 pvp with xp-off queue is by itself a huge population, should be 10x more than the 29 twinks with paying accounts, we don't even need blizzard's blessing to have good BG going, but somehow they don't play, I guess they go play other games, plenty of F2P games out there as competition
 
ns66 said:
we don't even need blizzard's blessing to have good BG going
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You dont need Blizz's blessing but you will need considerable time and energy to organize it, buy-in from all the participants to willingly follow whatever balancing rules youll need to make it enjoyable, and an energetic community leader to constantly push it even in the face of a dying genre of game play.

Like I said, theres a couple folks trying to do that. I'd suggest joining them!
 
Chops said:
You dont need Blizz's blessing but you will need considerable time and energy to organize it, buy-in from all the participants to willingly follow whatever balancing rules youll need to make it enjoyable, and an energetic community leader to constantly push it even in the face of a dying genre of game play.

Like I said, theres a couple folks trying to do that. I'd suggest joining them!
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I will certainly check that out,
but the thing is, if only thousands or even hundreds of people (which will be only a fraction of the population) interested in 20 pvp on expired sub, we don't need any organization, just queue up in game, should pop without problem, especially during peak hours
 
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