Positive attitude and Skill
- Thread starter Cìren
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Foolishness
Legend
Hey. I've been following Twinkinfo for a while now without making an account, and I think it's about damn time I made one!
I saw this and thought this'll be interesting, so where better to start eh? Anyway, I'd just like to post my thoughts upon this matter. I don't think you can be truly skillful at any game without a good nature honestly. Sure you can get glad any time, hell even keyturners can get glad if they play the right setups (far as I'm going down THAT road!), but if you treat every loss with the attitude of "this game's fucking stupid" or the ever -ready for most players "How can we lose when they're so bad?!" I don't think you'd have a shot at Ranks 1-5, as opposed to those who treat it as "Ok, we lost, what the hell happened?" In the same way Starcraft players watch replays, and pro players advise the use of fraps during arena, to look at your losses, that can't be done with a bad attitude. For instance if you're playing say Shadowplay and get cleaved down by Ret/DK and you just say "Fucking zergers" what does it achieve? As opposed to, next time let's do such and such.
But that's arena, and I understand you're thinking of twinking, something quite different!
I won't make many friends saying this, but from my experiences of 19 twinking (I've only ever had a warrior and mage at 19, though currently gearing up another mage for lols, levelled the other two!) I honestly haven't found a high skillcap. The majority of the players in those BGs keyturned, backpeddled, failed to utilize any sort of LoS. I don't think I came across a fake caster more than once ever 10 BGs, which is like "lolWUT!" frankly. However! The one time I came up vs an alliance premade from Draenor our entire team got ground into the dust, it wasn't too pretty. I suppose this is what I must watch for. I'm actually really intrigued to see the level of play possible with 19 twinking. Some nifty mouseover CS macros should be fun to play around with.
But anyway ye, YOOHOO twinkinfo! I hope to be making one or two posts that (I hope!) will prove productive.
On a side note: Great guides! The gearing guides have been a massive help to someone as lazy as myself ^.^
I saw this and thought this'll be interesting, so where better to start eh? Anyway, I'd just like to post my thoughts upon this matter. I don't think you can be truly skillful at any game without a good nature honestly. Sure you can get glad any time, hell even keyturners can get glad if they play the right setups (far as I'm going down THAT road!), but if you treat every loss with the attitude of "this game's fucking stupid" or the ever -ready for most players "How can we lose when they're so bad?!" I don't think you'd have a shot at Ranks 1-5, as opposed to those who treat it as "Ok, we lost, what the hell happened?" In the same way Starcraft players watch replays, and pro players advise the use of fraps during arena, to look at your losses, that can't be done with a bad attitude. For instance if you're playing say Shadowplay and get cleaved down by Ret/DK and you just say "Fucking zergers" what does it achieve? As opposed to, next time let's do such and such.
But that's arena, and I understand you're thinking of twinking, something quite different!
I won't make many friends saying this, but from my experiences of 19 twinking (I've only ever had a warrior and mage at 19, though currently gearing up another mage for lols, levelled the other two!) I honestly haven't found a high skillcap. The majority of the players in those BGs keyturned, backpeddled, failed to utilize any sort of LoS. I don't think I came across a fake caster more than once ever 10 BGs, which is like "lolWUT!" frankly. However! The one time I came up vs an alliance premade from Draenor our entire team got ground into the dust, it wasn't too pretty. I suppose this is what I must watch for. I'm actually really intrigued to see the level of play possible with 19 twinking. Some nifty mouseover CS macros should be fun to play around with.
But anyway ye, YOOHOO twinkinfo! I hope to be making one or two posts that (I hope!) will prove productive.
On a side note: Great guides! The gearing guides have been a massive help to someone as lazy as myself ^.^
Mocha
Legendary
I don't see why it's always the rogues... RvR stopped meaning something 5 years ago. Curley plays well. Ciren plays well. There are some things you guys have in common that you both do well. Can we leave it at that?
Since this debate has been going on for years which is based exclusively on popularity, I can safely assume that we cannot.
I will proceed to prove that skill and a good attitude can go hand in hand, and that everyone could achieve arete if they simply focus.
At first I thought Beastly was nothing special. Through playing with him for a long time I started to notice that he is on a higher level than anyone else. This higher level used to be occupied by Cirran and others. Players on this higher level understand that Kbs don't matter, and returns are exactly the same thing as a KB and that who returns the flag doesn't matter as long as it is your faction. Curley yells when someone else returns the flag. Bottom line, you can return 5-10 flags a game like I have done, yet you know it's not the returns that matter, but how you assist the returns. That's what is important. Latency and positioning are the only things that would determine the outcome of a player returning a flag over another. Latency is independent on skill.
Beastly is the only rogue who understands this and keeps his composure no matter what. He doesn't feel like he needs to get the return to look better on the scoreboard because he knows he is doing more work than any other rogue in the bracket. Does he claim he is great? No. Does he rage when someone returns the flag other than him? No.
As a rogue, most consider their first goal to be Kbs. After a while, they go for the damage charts. After that, they go for flag returns. After they understand that a flag return doesn't make you better than those who helped, that rogue can focus on the cause and effect of playing a Warsong rogue which leads to a carrying out a rogue's mission.
Whether he performs his job, and does so efficiently, are two things Beastly has mastered along with a positive attitude and skill.
Does this give a rogue the excuse to slack off and not focus 100% on returning the flag, and/or actually getting the return? No. A rogue should always be played to the maximum level of the player's focus and skill, but if you go out and give 100%, and another rogue gets the return over you, it simply does not matter.
Beastly has proven his skill through years of experience and determination.
Beastly has proven to have a positive attitude and a non-egotistical one at that.
Therefore, yes it is possible, although I can name only a select few who have acquired this level of experience needed to be great, and through experience gained this knowledge of what really is important.
Beastly, Pizza.
~~Møçhâ~~
Since this debate has been going on for years which is based exclusively on popularity, I can safely assume that we cannot.
I will proceed to prove that skill and a good attitude can go hand in hand, and that everyone could achieve arete if they simply focus.
At first I thought Beastly was nothing special. Through playing with him for a long time I started to notice that he is on a higher level than anyone else. This higher level used to be occupied by Cirran and others. Players on this higher level understand that Kbs don't matter, and returns are exactly the same thing as a KB and that who returns the flag doesn't matter as long as it is your faction. Curley yells when someone else returns the flag. Bottom line, you can return 5-10 flags a game like I have done, yet you know it's not the returns that matter, but how you assist the returns. That's what is important. Latency and positioning are the only things that would determine the outcome of a player returning a flag over another. Latency is independent on skill.
Beastly is the only rogue who understands this and keeps his composure no matter what. He doesn't feel like he needs to get the return to look better on the scoreboard because he knows he is doing more work than any other rogue in the bracket. Does he claim he is great? No. Does he rage when someone returns the flag other than him? No.
As a rogue, most consider their first goal to be Kbs. After a while, they go for the damage charts. After that, they go for flag returns. After they understand that a flag return doesn't make you better than those who helped, that rogue can focus on the cause and effect of playing a Warsong rogue which leads to a carrying out a rogue's mission.
Whether he performs his job, and does so efficiently, are two things Beastly has mastered along with a positive attitude and skill.
Does this give a rogue the excuse to slack off and not focus 100% on returning the flag, and/or actually getting the return? No. A rogue should always be played to the maximum level of the player's focus and skill, but if you go out and give 100%, and another rogue gets the return over you, it simply does not matter.
Beastly has proven his skill through years of experience and determination.
Beastly has proven to have a positive attitude and a non-egotistical one at that.
Therefore, yes it is possible, although I can name only a select few who have acquired this level of experience needed to be great, and through experience gained this knowledge of what really is important.
Beastly, Pizza.
~~Møçhâ~~
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Hurrx
the true profit
look
Revolution
Pandaboys
<has never once bragged about a return ratio, consitantly played tte gulch at 300-400 ms since the start of cata, has played more premades and put out more vids than any rogue since the start of cata. done more wargames and 1v1 challenges than any rogue since the start of cata.
i have the absoloute worst attitude trust me and im still the best
i have the absoloute worst attitude trust me and im still the best
Slyddur
OG
sax4cl
Hex
Legend
Apnea
Legend
Mocha's right about Beastly.
But also I'm obviously the best person. I have a large exotic animal print rug as the centerpiece of my living area. Faux of course, because real fur is murder. I have a vast collection of cultured films on DVD. I donate blood and excess income to charity and I buy starving children meals. I drive a Toyota Prius to minimize my impact on the environment. I attend wine tasting festivals. I have read the works of Hemingway. I enjoy boating and I have an exquisitely groomed mustache. I am fluent in 4 languages and I play a mean saxophone. I have a toned physique that's the product of an intense regimen of proper exercise, diet and supplements.
But also I'm obviously the best person. I have a large exotic animal print rug as the centerpiece of my living area. Faux of course, because real fur is murder. I have a vast collection of cultured films on DVD. I donate blood and excess income to charity and I buy starving children meals. I drive a Toyota Prius to minimize my impact on the environment. I attend wine tasting festivals. I have read the works of Hemingway. I enjoy boating and I have an exquisitely groomed mustache. I am fluent in 4 languages and I play a mean saxophone. I have a toned physique that's the product of an intense regimen of proper exercise, diet and supplements.
xxHolylipzqtxoxotwinkerxx
Guest
Yeah I agree with the OP skills gotta correlate with sportsmanship in order to form the perfect twink. Even though I am still but a squirrel, in this big world, we call 19s, I would have to nominate Slydur as the true GOAT of this bracket. His excellence shines in and out of the gulch - a true champion.
There's many other who would fall under this category but my head's not what it used to be so I regret to inform you all, that I cannot remember anymore names.
There's many other who would fall under this category but my head's not what it used to be so I regret to inform you all, that I cannot remember anymore names.
xxHolylipzqtxoxotwinkerxx
Guest
You can't play a resto druid with a negative attitudeYou'll wind up a dead tink
Best advice I've ever gotten
OP
OP
Cìren
OG
chilltink
Legend
anybody of you EU tinks remember Yup? (he played quite recently, might still be on endgame), he was one of my great sources of inspiration, he played a mean druid on an account without cata (i think), i didn't even notice he didn't have heirlooms untill he was one day absolutely ecstatic about getting his heirlooms :j
i was moved by "new guys'" post, (sorry, cba to go back and check what your name was), and Mochas' post. i think i have some things to add.
first of all, you can be a perfectly talented player without being friendly, however, being an angry gladiator, will make you a lonely person. the other day, I was accused of "pretending to be nice", which is something that absolutely appaled me. the trick lies in taking a look at this bracket, in all its glory and gore, and then taking a step back.. taking a look.
as it was mentioned before, the key lies in analyzing. saying that the bracket is broken, is as short-sighted as it is false, the bracket is in an arguably better state than it has ever been. No, the brackets' problem, lies in the fact, that we maintain an inherently negative and dismissing attitude towards players who are in the "learning curve." we ALL need to take a step back, and stop blaming the brackets' decline on other things, other people, other companies, the bracket is in your hands!
and yes, there will ALWAYS be bad, undergeared players.
and yes, there will ALWAYS be online anger.
but as long as YOU'RE smiling, the rest of it doesn't matter<3
so hop in that warsong, and you see that rogue failing a jump? you link him painaids' youtube video!
you see that paladin who can't fake-cast? you ask him to download Icicle!
you see that lonely person, who has been in the bracket forever, and is angry and frustrated, and calls you all baddies? give him your skype, play a few real IDs with him!
just dont let it be the fault of somebody else, because you could always have done more.
-Chíll out, peace out <3
i was moved by "new guys'" post, (sorry, cba to go back and check what your name was), and Mochas' post. i think i have some things to add.
first of all, you can be a perfectly talented player without being friendly, however, being an angry gladiator, will make you a lonely person. the other day, I was accused of "pretending to be nice", which is something that absolutely appaled me. the trick lies in taking a look at this bracket, in all its glory and gore, and then taking a step back.. taking a look.
as it was mentioned before, the key lies in analyzing. saying that the bracket is broken, is as short-sighted as it is false, the bracket is in an arguably better state than it has ever been. No, the brackets' problem, lies in the fact, that we maintain an inherently negative and dismissing attitude towards players who are in the "learning curve." we ALL need to take a step back, and stop blaming the brackets' decline on other things, other people, other companies, the bracket is in your hands!
and yes, there will ALWAYS be bad, undergeared players.
and yes, there will ALWAYS be online anger.
but as long as YOU'RE smiling, the rest of it doesn't matter<3
so hop in that warsong, and you see that rogue failing a jump? you link him painaids' youtube video!
you see that paladin who can't fake-cast? you ask him to download Icicle!
you see that lonely person, who has been in the bracket forever, and is angry and frustrated, and calls you all baddies? give him your skype, play a few real IDs with him!
just dont let it be the fault of somebody else, because you could always have done more.
-Chíll out, peace out <3
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