p2p 20's to 24's.

[lokah]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive]We all hate 24's why? just because they have a lot of good gnomeregan gear, and enchants. But what would the f2p community think about a level 20 with the same gear that we can all get but expect they have a boa cape, boa helm, and some enchants that a f2p can't obtain. In my honest opionon, I don't mind, there not 24's so they can get any other preicous talent points and any new abliltes. penny for your thoughts? [/font]





[font=comic sans ms, cursive]P.S: Sorry if this kinda of messy, english ain't my first language.[/font]

 

[Tooh87]

I've thought about it a lot myself, but then again I've also contemplated a 24. So, my opinion isn't too great on the matter.

 

[R Prime]

No one should really care about another's gear in this bracket (unless we see 10 man premades on both sides then maybe).



Some f2p purists see what you suggest as "an unfair advantage" but you pay for the game and it's really not a big deal all things considered.

 

[Shft]

Yea 22 intellect to 2h totally makes no difference when you add it to all the other enchants, totally fair.

 

[Jeralulz]

Yea 22 intellect to 2h totally makes no difference when you add it to all the other enchants, totally fair.

its so fair i know 20 spellpower just from another entchant on the weapon is nothing

and then 75 HP and whoa its nothing really esp on 20 where it is comperable OPer then on 24s srsly i have nothing against 24 p2ps cuz u can easily spot them but spot a fuckin p2p 20 when like all entchants look the same at this bracket.

 

[Shft]

you open on em and the p2p 20 disc hits you with a 600 mind blast and you wonder what happened

 

[R Prime]

Shft and Jer you're not wrong - there are definite and obvious advantages. But "fair" does not come into play in my opinion. F2Ps choose to play at a disadvantage. Some p2ps model their gear and skills with the same parameters - some do not - it's their dime/time and there is no fair/unfair.



To OP - I would think if you were to lock xp at 20 you already are looking for a challenge. Not sure if that answers your question. Note my opinions vary from many of the more vocal f2pers so you may get slack for non-f2p available gear/enchant/professions. Just a heads up. For me I judge new folk on attitude over all else.



And Jeru - the non-f2p available wpn enchants are fairly easy to spot in this bracket.

 

[Monkman]

Most people in this F2P community would see you as breaking the "rules." If you are going to play without the F2P restrictions (enchants mainly, and any other gear/items from proffs beyond 100) then most people wouldn't consider you to be part of the community.



Where the issue lies is that people with P2P accounts that roll in the 20-24 bracket only do so because of trial accounts. Without trial accounts, the BGs wouldn't pop for this bracket. As such, without our support those p2p players won't have a BG to play in so they will be forced to level.



So, what we do as a community (or at least what I have seen) is that the person is essentially shunned. No heals, no assistance when capping flags or killing enemies. Basically, if you get into a BG with people in this community (at least the AP group) most people will not help you. Just like any 24s we see, a lot of us won't heal that person or help them cap a flag.



I can agree with R Prime though, you pay to play so do what you want. If you want to be a part of the community, then immerse yourself in it. If you don't like the restrictions, then don't be a part of the community.



It would be like moving into a small village that doesn't believe in using automotives, and you come strolling into the village in a Hummer and say "hey guys can I stay here?" You won't be accepted because you don't follow their rules/guidelines.

 

[bvalks]

you "hate" the people that give you the ability to play for free in the first place, lol gtfo you freeloading cunt

 

[Shft]

you "hate" the people that give you the ability to play for free in the first place, lol gtfo you freeloading cunt

You act like we're freeloading off you personally, when we're just using Blizzard's own policy to play a game obviously not worth paying for. Get off your high horse. Its not fair, whether you justify it with $15 a month or not. Idk where the idea that paying for this game makes you better than anyone here. P2P 20s and 24s ruin the bracket, plain and simple. If I were new and got sick of 24s, I would just go roll a nelf hunter too. Part of the problem, not part of the solution

 

[Earlwing]

You could do what I do, and only use things that are obtainable to f2p players. I mean, I get by just fine without crutching on crusader, 22 intellect, 4 stats, etc...

 

[pinochet]

In my mind it also makes a difference whether you're using extra gear to make a weak class viable or to make an OP class more OP. I have very little problem with a couple extra heirlooms and some agi enchants on an enhance shaman, but the same enchants on a hunter/rogue is crossing a bit of a line. To me it's a question of whether the enchants are being used to match the power of an honestly-geared 20 or to exceed it.



Bottom line: if you're using your p2p-hood to skip some of the grind or to make an underpowered class playable, that's an acceptable use of your $15. If you're using p2p perks to roll over 20s, then level on through to 24 and stop pretending.



(I'm also OK with leather BoA helm on horde as a means of evening the faction disparity, since it's equal or inferior to skillpatch.)

 

[Kincaide]

F2Ps choose to play at a disadvantage.

I have to disagree with this sentiment pretty strongly. To say that F2Ps play at a disadvantage would be to define 20 P2Ps as the norm, and the F2P is at the disadvantage compared to that. The reality is, the F2P is the by-far-overwhelming and defining majority in the bracket, and as such the F2Ps are the norm, and the P2P 20 who does not play by the norm is the one taking the advantage.



As Monkman said, this bracket ONLY exists because of the F2P accounts. Everyone in this xp-off bracket falls into one of three categories. You are either a F2P account, a P2P account respecting the bracket-defining F2Ps, or a P2P not respecting the bracket-defining F2Ps. End of story. Now, that lack of respect comes in several forms: for some, it is breaking the gear conventions to gain an unfair advantage over the bracket definers, and for others, it's rolling a 24 to gain an unfair advantage over the bracket definers. But in either case, the individual is knowingly making themselves the unfair exception, and this is disrespectful (and in some cases, deliberately harmful) to the bracket.



For some people, the selfish desire to be better than everyone else supersedes the reasonable human quality of fair play. For those people, we have learned to overcome, avoid or ignore... but the fact that we have gotten good at mitigating the impact of their unfair, selfish play, does not justify their actions or make them acceptable.

 

[shanker]

you did fine cause your team had them outhealed or self healed

 

[Monkman]

you "hate" the people that give you the ability to play for free in the first place, lol gtfo you freeloading cunt

Being immature is a great way to prove your point of being immature, but thats about it.



Again I must say that without trials, there wouldn't be a 20-24 bracket. So in reality, the P2P 20's and 24's are only able to play here because of us.



If you decide to pay to play the game, why not level up and play where the other p2p-ers are? The only reason for a p2p to play in this bracket without following f2p guidelines is because they are either



A) not skilled at this game (pretty difficult NOT to be but it happens) to play without a massive advantage



or



B ) people with poor self esteem that rolling over people in a video game makes them feel good about themselves.

 

[Earlwing]

you did fine cause your team had them outhealed or self healed

I know, we had 4 healers which made me a happy warrior.

 

[Preeztess]

I think Monk hit the nail on the head. If you want to P2P and get all the bonuses, etc, then go ahead, free country, but don't expect the community to embrace you.

 

[minitere]

you "hate" the people that give you the ability to play for free in the first place, lol gtfo you freeloading cunt

f2p are locked into this bracket and we have no choice. P2p is not restricted and can play in about a dozen others and compete against people with the same caps. While I understand this bracket existed before f2p came around, it clearly isn't the thriving pvp spot that it is today so really you have to ask yourself why you would play in this bracket with a 24 or decked out p2p 20 unless your goal is to piss in our cheerios.



...and if that's your goal that's why the community doesn't like you.



Again as others have eluded, you will find very few people here who will say you cant / shouldn't do something, it's your 15$ a month, do with it as you see fit. Just don't expect an embrace from the community.

 

[Grrthump]

I have to agree with the concept of "Overall, you should follow the f2p restrictions if you are looking for us to embrace it" however, I agree that if you are bringing an under-represented and nerfed class into the BG with extra gear to balance the class in the bracket, more power to you. Anything to reduce the number of hunters in a single BG. And that's coming from a hunter.



If your goal is to bring balance, bring it. If your goal is to be OP on a 20, forget it.



Like everyone has said, you paid your $15 a month, it is your call, but if you want the bracket to survive, don't build OP toons to boost your own ego.

 

[R Prime]

I have to disagree with this sentiment pretty strongly. To say that F2Ps play at a disadvantage would be to define 20 P2Ps as the norm, and the F2P is at the disadvantage compared to that. The reality is, the F2P is the by-far-overwhelming and defining majority in the bracket, and as such the F2Ps are the norm, and the P2P 20 who does not play by the norm is the one taking the advantage. As Monkman said, this bracket ONLY exists because of the F2P accounts. Everyone in this xp-off bracket falls into one of three categories. You are either a F2P account, a P2P account respecting the bracket-defining F2Ps, or a P2P not respecting the bracket-defining F2Ps. End of story. Now, that lack of respect comes in several forms: for some, it is breaking the gear conventions to gain an unfair advantage over the bracket definers, and for others, it's rolling a 24 to gain an unfair advantage over the bracket definers. But in either case, the individual is knowingly making themselves the unfair exception, and this is disrespectful (and in some cases, deliberately harmful) to the bracket. For some people, the selfish desire to be better than everyone else supersedes the reasonable human quality of fair play. For those people, we have learned to overcome, avoid or ignore... but the fact that we have gotten good at mitigating the impact of their unfair, selfish play, does not justify their actions or make them acceptable.

Filtered as an absolute - f2ps play at a disadvantage. They cannot access the gear or enchants of a p2p account. There is no way to refute this. Their choice is to not pay. I do not begrudge anyone to chose either the f2p or p2p path.

The 20-24 bracket has been tremendously bolstered by the f2p accounts - but to come in and declare this land in the name of France seems self righteous to me. Yes - 20s breathed life into the bracket but that does not mean everyone needs to conform to their standards of play. And it does not mean they should be shat upon for not doing so. 20s are the majority but not the ruling body. Plain and simple it's the 20-24 bracket. Now, despite all I've written today I actually enjoy the 20-24 community (particularly on AP) and have gone out of my way to bolster the community. I personally would not roll a 24 in this bracket, as I enjoy the challenge at 20, and have both f2p and p2p 20s, but don't care overly so if others choose differently. Nor would I GY farm. Life is too short to get worked up about other people's choices in video game character decisions. The axiom Be nice, drink your milk, stay in school can be applied to almost all walks of life.