EU+US Outlaw 70 bis build
- Thread starter trilatus
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- 70-79 70s bis gear help
Legitheals
Legend
I made a 70 outlaw rogue profile a few days ago. https://www.wowhead.com/list=72421460/70-rogue-bis#0-equipment-set
This should be BiS. The other possible BiS items are in the item tab.
This should be BiS. The other possible BiS items are in the item tab.
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
@Opek2 @trilatus
I think hand of the deceiver+blade of the unrequited are the best in a 'serious'/arena setting. Glaives are a bit of a joke/fun option but still decent.
@Legitheals I'm curious: if you are opting for the wastewalker set (emphasis on procs over static stats) why aren't you also using the shattered sun pendant?
Also I think going for the proc options is similar to using warglaives; more of a 'for fun' build and not really the optimal choice.
This build is better:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34244/duplicitous-guise?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34358/hard-khorium-choker?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34392/demontooth-shoulderpads?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34241/cloak-of-unforgivable-sin?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34211/harness-of-carnal-instinct?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34448/slayers-bracers?ilvl=89
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34370/gloves-of-immortal-dusk?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=30106/belt-of-one-hundred-deaths?ilvl=81
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34188/leggings-of-the-immortal-night?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=32352/naturewardens-treads?ilvl=83
https://www.wowhead.com/item=44039/signet-of-bridenbrad&bonus=3771
https://www.wowhead.com/item=42864/frozen-mood-ring&bonus=3691
https://www.wowhead.com/item=40767/sonic-booster?ilvl=95
https://www.wowhead.com/item=29383/bloodlust-brooch?ilvl=77
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34331/hand-of-the-deceiver?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=28572/blade-of-the-unrequited?ilvl=80
I think hand of the deceiver+blade of the unrequited are the best in a 'serious'/arena setting. Glaives are a bit of a joke/fun option but still decent.
@Legitheals I'm curious: if you are opting for the wastewalker set (emphasis on procs over static stats) why aren't you also using the shattered sun pendant?
Also I think going for the proc options is similar to using warglaives; more of a 'for fun' build and not really the optimal choice.
This build is better:
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34244/duplicitous-guise?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34358/hard-khorium-choker?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34392/demontooth-shoulderpads?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34241/cloak-of-unforgivable-sin?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34211/harness-of-carnal-instinct?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34448/slayers-bracers?ilvl=89
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34370/gloves-of-immortal-dusk?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=30106/belt-of-one-hundred-deaths?ilvl=81
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34188/leggings-of-the-immortal-night?ilvl=92
https://www.wowhead.com/item=32352/naturewardens-treads?ilvl=83
https://www.wowhead.com/item=44039/signet-of-bridenbrad&bonus=3771
https://www.wowhead.com/item=42864/frozen-mood-ring&bonus=3691
https://www.wowhead.com/item=40767/sonic-booster?ilvl=95
https://www.wowhead.com/item=29383/bloodlust-brooch?ilvl=77
https://www.wowhead.com/item=34331/hand-of-the-deceiver?ilvl=94
https://www.wowhead.com/item=28572/blade-of-the-unrequited?ilvl=80
Last edited:
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
but it's not though, waste walker set sims at higher dps than the swp pieces, outlaw in itself is a "proc"spec being that roll the bones gives you a random assortment of stats that can play with your characters preexisting stats. The wastewalker set bounces between 25-30% up time and scales up to 78 agility in instanced pvp
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
But PVP isn't a patchwerk simulation.
As outlaw you kill in setups; 6 second windows. You shouldn't wait for procs to go for a setup.
You mention roll the bones, but roll the bones has negative synergy with proc builds. Outlaw does more damage if they get lucky rolls, sure, but that just means even less of a chance to align your burst with the procs from your gear.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
im talking about my own tests in bgs and arenas, that uptime is from actual control groups of games ive played. Almost all the roll the bones procs are good dps increases, and to align adreneline rush and lust for battle is silly, when the bis pvp talent for outlaw grants a 3 sec addy rush on cheap and roll the bones procs are loads better than the lust for battle proc. Plus the roll the bones talent granting 15% haste on roll the bones for 8 seconds
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
I wasn't questioning your uptime percentages, I was questioning you bringing up simulations in this context.
I'm having a little trouble deciphering the rest of your post. Are you talking about bloodlust brooch vs vestige of haldor now? I can kinda understand using a panther trinket instead of bloodlust brooch for lower cooldown as outlaw, I guess.
Legitheals
Legend
"This should be BiS. The other possible BiS items are in the item tab"
Can nobody in this thread read? "emphasis on procs over static stats" - The set I have uses the 2p, which is static. Not a proc. What do you have against procs? Why do you want to be useless outside of a 2 minute on use trinket? Glaives procs for 180 haste and Dragonspine is 160 haste. These procs are ridiculous and as Outlaw haste is sick. Also, why are you assuming this guy wants the 'serious arena setting' BiS? Is there ranked arena at 70 anymore? No. BGs are currently the main form of PvP at 70 and my build will do way higher overall DPS than yours.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
no, not bringing up vestige at all, there are 2 pvp talents that are bis for outlaw rogues at 70. One of them grants 3 seconds of adreneline rush everytime someone near you stuns an enemy( Including yourself) and another that grants your roll the bones buffs plus a 7 second window of 15% haste each time it's used, making outlaw much less rng dependent and more of an all around well balanced spec in which you don't have 1 damage window, but more or less very many windows of damage adding up to a cohesive whole of damage dealt
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
My bad didn't see you were only using 2 pieces of wastewalker. I'm not sure if that's good either though, considering how much crit you get from gems.
Unreliable so not ideal for PVP.
Yeah haste is good and those procs are good, of course. I'm just saying they're worse than the alternatives. Especially glaives vs fist+dagger is a no-brainer.
Yep the build I posted is better for serious arena. And it's also better for winning battlegrounds, since winning battlegrounds as a rogue depends entirely on bursting priority targets in short windows (basically same win condition as arena).
It's probably not the best build for endlessly midfighting in bgs though.
Those pvp talents are great and they both help you in your burst window - but are completely irrelevant to the discussion.
The point is that a proc like wastewalker set or shattered sun pendant can happen at any time and actually have a really low chance of proccing when it really matters.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
but im saying that you have multiple burst windows with those talents, and we are also talking about outlaw here, and not sub.
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
You have multiple burst windows with every talent setup. Those pvp talents just make your windows more effective. You should aim to go every stun dr regardless of what cooldown is ready or what proc is up. You never wanna be like "OK we have cc on their healers now let's kill efc- NVM WAIT WAIT WAIT I need my agi proc first guys hold on".
Not that I'm expecting you or anyone to do that. But that's what your gear is optimized for.
Basically I'm just reiterating the point that PVP isn't a patchwerk fight over and over.
Legitheals
Legend
In an entire BG, you will get more out of a proc based build like mine, than you will from an active based build like yours. At least as Outlaw, I'm not sure you're familiar with the spec considering some of the things you've said. Outlaw doesn't have large periods of time with zero damage output, any massive haste proc (both procs give 18%+ haste) is going to get good value. It's also stickier than Sub, so you're more likely to make use of them.
Is it? Why? Because it's a proc? Again procs aren't bad for BGs, they are unreliable for arena - we agree there.
Outlaw doesn't stay stealthed for half the BG waiting for CDs to come up. Outlaw can burst frequently and pretty much every time you're going to have a proc up. Especially if you're running double landslide in addition to the two haste procs.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
good point, ill just go ahead and give myself less overall damage so that i can have an even smaller damage burst during my burst windows and even less damage over all. Ive tried all these sets in arenas and bgs, and this set is the highest burst and over damage potential i have found
Dreams
fastest shadowstep in the west
Yes. If you are just running in to midfight all the time. You shouldn't do that, though.
Neither does any other rogue spec. But just like every other rogue spec outlaws main strength and main goal is to kill priority targets quickly.
Nope they aren't bad at all. They're just worse than the alternative: higher static stats, less dependence on RNG. Because a lot of the time it doesn't matter how much damage you're doing. It matters how fast you can kill a healer or enemy flag carrier in a stun though.
Overall it sounds like you're both trying to build for random midfights in battlegrounds but won't just outright say it, for some reason. I don't think that's a bad idea or anything by the way. I just think it's worse for winning battlegrounds.
[doublepost=1538339932,1538339799][/doublepost]
Yes. It's the highest burst if you get your proc(s) when you're bursting. I'm saying it's better to have a higher burst on average.
Fx
Unnecessarily Rude
Again people trying to say Glaives are good hm?
Here's the math for you:
Glaive proc has a 45s ICD and 10 second duration.
On average if you're just hitting a dummy, it'll proc every 50 seconds or so.
But let's assume it has a 100% proc chance. Let's make it truly extreme best-case scenario for glaive apologists.
That means 10 seconds every 45 seconds. That's a 22% uptime on a 180 haste buff.
180 * 0.22 = 40 haste average.
compared to 5 sockets + socket bonusses, which gives you 25 agi and 20 haste (or 25 crit but we're looking for haste here right
)on top of 5 attack power from socket bonus
5 sockets are clearly just better for overall damage.
And don't even try to claim that the burst you get from glaive proc is great, because chances are high that you won't have the proc when you're actually looking for some extra damage.
I don't know about any of the other shit you're suggesting but chances are it's not actually good either.
Here's the math for you:
Glaive proc has a 45s ICD and 10 second duration.
On average if you're just hitting a dummy, it'll proc every 50 seconds or so.
But let's assume it has a 100% proc chance. Let's make it truly extreme best-case scenario for glaive apologists.
That means 10 seconds every 45 seconds. That's a 22% uptime on a 180 haste buff.
180 * 0.22 = 40 haste average.
compared to 5 sockets + socket bonusses, which gives you 25 agi and 20 haste (or 25 crit but we're looking for haste here right
)on top of 5 attack power from socket bonus5 sockets are clearly just better for overall damage.
And don't even try to claim that the burst you get from glaive proc is great, because chances are high that you won't have the proc when you're actually looking for some extra damage.
I don't know about any of the other shit you're suggesting but chances are it's not actually good either.
Cloudieqt
Veteran
I think Outlaw (old "combat") is studied for PvE where fight r not fast and u need lot of energy regen.
Subtley focus on burst. "All in" or die.
Assa a good mixed between sustained dps (combat) and burst (sub).
Maybe I am wrong but it s my opinion.
To have the best from the spec u have to use them in the right way.
Not necessary one is better than other.
If u wanna "non- stop fighting" go Outlaw.
If u feel like a "sniper" go sub.
For the rest: as Fx shows.... math is not an opinion.
Good n8!
Subtley focus on burst. "All in" or die.
Assa a good mixed between sustained dps (combat) and burst (sub).
Maybe I am wrong but it s my opinion.
To have the best from the spec u have to use them in the right way.
Not necessary one is better than other.
If u wanna "non- stop fighting" go Outlaw.
If u feel like a "sniper" go sub.
For the rest: as Fx shows.... math is not an opinion.
Good n8!