New to the bracket in classic is wall glitching the whole game now?

Either way.

You will not get banned for using the software that comes with gaming devices. If they look for it through the Warden, the banwave will be immense and hit way too many people. Probably have a lot of collateral damage as well (people having the sofware, but not utilizing it for WoW).

You're 100% safe as long as you dont do anything that falls within automated gameplay (looping a series of events forever and ever), in which case they still have to catch you red-handed because they can't look at the 3rd party program and be like wam bam.
It's way too difficult to distinguish whether it's an actual player input or not since there is no inherit give-away to tell otherwise (with something so simple as jumps that is).

And this is what all the "good jumpers" use either way, or there is no way you reach that amount of success rate on the advanced jumps that requires quite the timing and series of consecutive jumps.
 
that i don't disagree with for the most part.
blizz pretty much reserves the right to act against it, and doesn't exercise that right.
if some gaming device comes out in the future that causes big problems, who knows.
i have no idea what most the good jumpers do. i'd prefer to lose to someone doing it thru skill.
 
glad u at least know something

What's your problem, honestly? Why are you out to trigger me? Even if you do want to correct people, there are normal ways of going about it, but you insta went full on turd-mode for no reason. Did something happen happen to you? Are you ok? Do you only have this mentality online or do you carry it around irl too? Are you having a bad day?

that i don't disagree with for the most part.
blizz pretty much reserves the right to act against it, and doesn't exercise that right.
if some gaming device comes out in the future that causes big problems, who knows.
i have no idea what most the good jumpers do. i'd prefer to lose to someone doing it thru skill.

They can't really do anything against it, because there are simply too many factors in play and too much at stake.

In terms of skill, simply not pulling your hair out for not hitting w+space within a frame of each other, doesn't mean you instantly become a god. There is still the angling, knowing the jumps, when and how to use them efficiently etc. There are also sequences where mixing your normal user input with the macro is needed, like when you need to backpedal at the lower right side of Alliance ToT in order to stick etc.

And I can guarantee you that literally no one that's known for their jumps are doing it without a macro. It's just the truth really.
 
What's your problem, honestly? Why are you out to trigger me?

Probably because you come across as condescending and consistently bring up the fact that blizzard likely won't ban you for using macros as reasoning that it is OK to do it. Blizzard's lack of punishment doesn't make using macros for jumps OK.
 
If they need to cheat to jump, they aren't a good jumper in my book.

The best players are those with the skill to actually pull off the jumps themselves : )
 
oh what the heck, i've nitpicked this much, might as well:

>>It's called firmware because it is something that resides between
>>software and hardware. Sigh.
>glad u at least know something

if "between" means on the scale from hard to change to easy to change, then yes.
if you mean it operates somehow as a middleman, then not particularly.
modern firmware is code that operates on an eeprom (previously defined, and not really structurally different from modern flash drives.) it's "firm" for two reasons: it takes a special process to rewrite the eeprom, and it doesn't cease to exist when unpowered. software is run from ram, and does go away when unpowered; hardware is pretty much synonymous with the physical layer. there are cases when firmware exists "in between" in that it can be the definitions of the functions that the computer will use when translating higher level function calls down to the machine code that a chip will execute, but that's not usually the case, and definitely not for a mouse.

>If they need to cheat to jump, they aren't a good jumper in my book.

I'm not with that, people that use tool-assistance can still be very skilled in my book.. not as inhumanly skilled as people who don't, but still very skilled. nor do i consider it whole-hog cheating. sometimes it's just meta-changing. the forward pass didn't always exist in football, and when it first was used, it was regarded as cheating by many. still, people generally recognized it still required skill, and instead of being outlawed, it came to define an entirely new meta, forever changing how football was played.

>Purple font. Triggered!

purple is DEFINITELY cheating.

>It's way too difficult to distinguish whether it's an actual player input or not
>since there is no inherit give-away to tell otherwise (with something so simple as jumps that is).

far more difficult, but hardly impossible. the most obvious approach would be signals intelligence, or sigint. it's how anti-terrorism research can be done without falling afoul of privacy rules. the govt may not be allowed to eavesdrop your calls, but they are allowed to look at things like the duration and recipients of your calls. (whether they stay within the rules of warrantless tapping or not is a whole other can of political worms). wow already does this when looking for botters, tracking the precision of people's repetitive actions as gathered evidence. even if it's something like a macro'd jump interspersed with otherwise manual input, they'd be able to see that at times you're using frame-perfect actions, and if it shows up too often and too identically, it could be held against you. the arms race against such would involve inserting some randomization, but that'd defeat the point of macroing a frame-perfect jump.
sometimes game companies go overboard and have their software seek out cheating software on your computer. that usually results in public outcry, but it happens how and then. going so far as to inspect someone's hard drives is almost always cried foul on, inspecting what's currently loaded in ram is less outrageous, and something you see often in mobile games. os's have gratefully moved towards isolating programs from inspecting outside of the ram reserved to just itself for other reasons. this would not be effective vs firmware, as it literally operates inside the mouse. there's nothing theoretically stopping a manufacturer from putting such complex logic into a mouse's firmware other than it's a stupid cost-benefit tradeoff for any reason other than "cheating".

>thankfully, the blinkenlights settings reside in firmware

and lastly, apropos of nothing really, i made myself laugh because i forgot where i got the word blinkenlights from. there used to be a sign in many server rooms that used ww2 "anti"-german humor to tell people not to touchenzie thingies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights
 
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I'm not with that, people that use tool-assistance can still be very skilled in my book.. not as inhumanly skilled as people who don't, but still very skilled. nor do i consider it whole-hog cheating. sometimes it's just meta-changing. the forward pass didn't always exist in football, and when it first was used, it was regarded as cheating by many. still, people generally recognized it still required skill, and instead of being outlawed, it came to define an entirely new meta, forever changing how football was played.

I don't think that analogy works. Jump macros are automating gameplay, that seems pretty cut and dry for it to be considered a form of cheating. It's certainly meta changing but that seems irrelevant to the question of whether it's cheating. Everyone downloading kick bots would be pretty meta changing too.
 
I don't think that analogy works. Jump macros are automating gameplay, that seems pretty cut and dry for it to be considered a form of cheating. It's certainly meta changing but that seems irrelevant to the question of whether it's cheating. Everyone downloading kick bots would be pretty meta changing too.

it's a matter of opinion, and you're entitled to yours.
personally, i lean towards jump macros being closer to the side of not cheating on a scale between yes or no.
kick bots would take input from the game (detecting a cast) to decide when to perform an action, so i'd put them closer to the cheating side of the scale. a jump macro is executed purely at the discretion of the player. ..unless it somehow was set to go off under some automatic condition.
 
What's your problem, honestly? Why are you out to trigger me? Even if you do want to correct people, there are normal ways of going about it, but you insta went full on turd-mode for no reason. Did something happen happen to you? Are you ok? Do you only have this mentality online or do you carry it around irl too? Are you having a bad day?

So now you went from being condescending and self-righteous to crying about me going too hard on you? Adorable.

I was being pretty civil at the start of this conversation but I have very little patience for people doubling down when they are clearly out of their depth instead of admitting that they made a minor mistake and moving on.
 
if anyone enjoys this kind of info, there's a great channel on youtube called "modern vintage gamer" that'll delve into this kind of stuff now and then

 
So now you went from being condescending and self-righteous to crying about me going too hard on you? Adorable.

I was being pretty civil at the start of this conversation but I have very little patience for people doubling down when they are clearly out of their depth instead of admitting that they made a minor mistake and moving on.

Honestly yeah, I could have gone about it a lot differently when you started addressing the ToS topic. I should have just left it at the idea that you won't get banned for utilizing the macro because of XYZ instead. So let's move on.

To address the general topic and the discussions that's been going on.

People can think jump macros are cheating, that's fine. Doesn't change the fact that all top FC's and the likes that utilize the jumps at a perfect rate are all using it. Whether you see it as skill in the end or not is also subjective. There is a lot more that goes into jumping than simply pressing w+space within the perfect frame window that certain jumps require. You are only gimping yourself by not using it if you have it available to you. If you choose not to from your own moral perspective, then that's your choice, but complaining about it will amount to nothing as it's already been widely recognized and used in the bracket.

One thing in particular that's at an actual hardware level would be the Razer Naga mouse. That mouse literally allows you to utilize binds in a sequence that would not be humanly possible without it, while maintaining smooth gameplay overall. I know rogues like Pikaboo for instance wouldn't be able to perform a lot of his clutch plays without it. He even talks about this in a VoD somewhere.

Now, no one will ever state that using a Razer Naga is cheating, but it's a perfect example of the evolution of gaming equipment, and it probably won't stop there. A lot of peripherals are constantly upgraded to perform better and give more of an edge, and the Razer Naga was just one example of many.

About addons.
An addon I personally find ridiculous that's also gathered some controversy is the Spy addon. The addon is perfectly fine in terms of ToS and everything in that regard. All it does is read the combat log. However, in my opinion, there is a huge difference between setting up your combat log to properly garner the information you need and actually look at it and filter the information yourself, as opposed to having an addon filter it, graphically display players in your vicinity, classes and ability used (especially the Stealth warning). Humans aren't perfect, and you will essentially miss something at some point. You're not gonna look at your combat log 24/7. So You're taking way too much away from the player and putting it into an addon that gives way too much value with literally no effort, and this is in a PvP setting.

Again, people still use it and you would only be gimping yourself for not using it.
 

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