My Opinions On Queing Each Class

Mocha

Legendary
I do have at least 1 of every class and multiples of many but I've been finding it difficult to choose what to play. Finding something fun for me has been more difficult than ever because often times if I play a class that is more fun for me to play, Horde loses. If I play a healer or FC, Horde usually wins as those two roles can be rare for horde to fill out.



Now this post is meant to be overly negative and pessimistic despite it actually bearing my own experiences and truths from playing each class in WOD. I doubt may will find the comedy in this post but I wrote it because it's funny to me obviously and it does help to summarize my experience playing each class.I know I often times can be negative about 19s, but in real life I'm the most positive person you'll meet. It's just frustrating seeing a meta that could be more fun for everyone if people started playing for the community as opposed to their own desires and it really wears me down when people take the fun out of 19s for everyone. Not to mention, most of the issues we've gone through and are dealing with are issues that I've long since seen coming and been vocal about reducing the impact of said issues. The afking out issue is a huge issue in 19s that's often overlooked. The way people go about containment makes people afk out but it really doesn't have to. Less people in queues = longer queues for everyone. etc It becomes tiring when you've been saying the same crap for years but people are still so damn focused on their fotm damage charts and cliques that they're surprised when it gets so bad that something does become a serious issue. Growth of our community is something we've needed to focus on and It's pretty clear that after the twink cup not many people will be interested in playing 19s. Sadly we cut our population in half back in cata due to of the Horde titles.




I digress... I have created a list of my opinions on playing each class in WoD. I am a team player, I focus on objectives, I like CC more than damage, I hate 1 shotting, I'd rather everyone deal very little damage than everyone dealing loads of damage etc. I know some people like the 1 shot fast paced CoD MW style combat of 1 shotting everything and being able to be 1 shot by anything. I hate it. But regardless here it is.




Druid: I remade a FC druid because somebody keeps constantly queueing druid FC on ally side (which almost always has a FC to begin with) and Horde almost never have a FC. If one team has a resto druid FC and the other team does not, it's probably going to be a 3-0, people get sick of it, afk out, team is at a disadvantage, get forced into GY and more people afk because it turns into a 10v6 farmfest. Personally, when I'm the only FC in the game, I encourage others to FC as it makes for a fair fight. There's nothing fair about running a resto druid FC against a team that doesn't have anybody capable of such insane movement and survivability. I don't like FCing but I do so because nobody else will nut up and do so. I'm not a complete dick so I'd never spec feral (patts is the only feral I've seen who doesn't play like a stunlock 100-0 /lol prick). I hate the idea of cheese range dps topping damage charts so balance druid is a mindless epeen fueling role in my opinion similar to playing hunter up until WOD.



Mage: Not many people know this but I pushed rogue to the side for a bit mid TBC and played CC mage in premades on Kul'Tiras back in the day. Mages back then were completely different from how they are now and there's very few similarities. Unfortunately, if there is more than 1 mage on your team, your team is lacking greatly. Unfortunately, they don't provide many benefits as a shammy will cover counterspells, a rogue, lock, or druid pretty much covers polymorphs, a BM can snare better than a mage can and there's not much a mage can do that other more FOTM classes can't. Heck, your FC replaces the need for arcane explosion on D. Pretty obvious why I'm not queuing mage although if we gained a much needed absorb and could reduce some cast time on our frostbolts I'd be very happy to play mage despite CC still being quite useless. Back in the world of O and D and it taking 5 minutes to form an offensive assault to go in to drop EFC only to be slowed down by a frost mage it was different. However, there really isn't a need for mage CC any more as warriors can make up tons of ground thanks to charge, druids could always powershift, monks can make up the ground, and rogues are worthless post opener for the most part. Basically the need for the CC mage provides at 19 simply isn't there like it used to be when everyone was at 108% speed and had no way to break out of CCs besides trinket, AND ranged dps simply was not a threat. Today's game is primarily ranged dps centered so snaring an offense really isn't a big deal like it used to be.



Warlock: I really don't like the idea of lock in the current meta. Fears are nice but given everybody dots and has EF, your dots are pretty much matched by a resto shammy, a resto druid, a balance druid, a warrior, a disc priest (keep in mind most of these classes are healers) so the need for a warlock for putting out dot damage is absolutely not there. They also don't provide any desired burst dps. Locks are not used in any competitive games and for good reason. There's no point in me queuing one in PUGs when I can provide better CC, survivability, burst, and sustained damage on pretty much any other classes. Although, I do really like seeing 1 per faction in PUGs for sake of diversity. If locks gained more dot damage over other classes with dots and perhaps a little more survivability (VW absorb) I'd be interested in playing lock again.



Priest: 99% of the reason why i'm not playing my priest is because every kid and his mother is playing priest right now. What is so problematic about this, is they're going for the healing charts and debuffing your entire team for the entire duration of the game due to the fact that all of a sudden now absorbs are being counted as heals. Priests bubbling everybody at the worst times so bubbles are broken and they're debuffed right at the natural fluctuation of burst damage comes into play in the mid fight. Bubbles are the best tool for countering this insane dps burst and we are unable to use them because you can't trust that other priests know what they're doing.



Warrior: Well I hate the idea of arms. The fact that warriors are topping damage means that you need to spread rend and focus on damage. Warrior to me has always been about CC so this completely going against what I've done in the past and what I enjoy doing on a warrior. Although, the CC has returned and is quite viable, your CC is overlapped by the BMs in the game anyways so warr CC is basically ignored. Solo queuing warrior on horde side is a nightmare as we rarely have healers. They don't have free mobility as charge requires an enemy so FCing as warrior is not an option. Mitigation simply doesn't exist any more so their previous survivability is completely invalid. Even if it did, until that mitigation is applied to all incoming spell damage as well as normal damage, they'd still be useless in terms of survivability and mitigation.



Monk: WW Monk is the revived version of TBC rogue that I loved. It has better mobility than most classes (rogues were the only classes with sprint or any movement speed increase) Fists of fury is like an improved gouge or a kidney shot at 19. Jab for 45 energy is basically sinister strike. Combo points = chi. 30 armor ignore = expose armor. Healing makes up for the loss of evasion / base dodge. Good damage but no super broken crits for 1.3k. Fists is pretty OP but it's difficulty to land makes it not so bad. If you see a WW monk running towards you just keep moving and you're good. I love playing my monk as it fulfills a similar desire to play rogue without class stacking 129414 rogues and feeling like an asshole. I do miss being able to sap people though as cross sapping is one thing that I've always excelled at. I refuse to play BM kegsmash permasnare the entire WSG map. MW looks like it could be a lot of fun and very effective for countering burst. WW is probably the most fun that I have solo queuing even though I still find myself being the only one capable of grabbing a flag so I spend too much time fcing despite me not wanting to. Also if your team has more than 1 WW, you're lacking severely.



Shammy: Resto shammy I have simply because unlike priest it's idiot proof. If your team has other shammies spamming riptide, you can still use your abilities. On priest if you need to bubble someone, someone else already has and their bubble is already popped so they're debuffed and you can now watch them die right before you get a cast off or in between penance ticks. Shammy doesn't have that issue. The mobility is nice. Purging and windshearing is great. I have most fun with dispel. It's basically TBC priest without the CC. (Dot + EF = gravestone scepter spam) Unfortunately, most games that I'm on my shammy, I ALSO have to FC. FCing resto shammy is basically FCing on a holy pally except you can't hoj anything. I don't really enjoy healing in PUGs as 90% of the time my team still cannot play objectives to save their lives so I have to leave them in mid to go chase down EFC by myself or help our FC (IF WE HAVE ONE (fairly odd parents quote adaptation)) so either 1) our team wipes and is confined to their own GY or 2) you sometimes do so poorly on the healing charts (that don't matter) that people who do heal mid think they're better than you. If resto shammy had earthbind I would absolutely put up with healing to enjoy playing this class.



Hunter: I've always enjoyed hunter for the utility but I hated the broken damage. When disengage became a movement ability instead of just a threat losing melee ranged ability the class became a completely different thing. The endless conc shot is great for those of us who used to play CC mage as it's very similar to playing a ranged rogue mixed with a CC mage in some aspects. Your entire duty is sticking on EFC (as it is rogue) which is what i'm all about. Tracking makes for a very useful teammate. Hunter is fun for sure and I like the fact that they don't have the ridiculous damage that they had in the past which took any skill out of playing this class. Current hunter is quite fun, although generally lacking an offense it makes for a lot of suicide missions on my part and it can get frustrating when nobody will cross mid for EFC.



Paladin: Ret pally looks like a lot of fun if you're playing objectively and as a team player. Only a few ret pallies have I seen spam healing their teams. A ret pally should in theory be a CC melee healer who doesn't do broken damage. According to lore, they should basically be front lines of combat while healing their entire team and using their CC abilities. They're not supposed to be putting out great damage but thanks to WOTLK they became holy arms warriors. In pugs I'd rather have someone be an arms warrior or have them be a resto shammy so ret pally feels like a gimped role between the two. It does not live up to the standards that they should according to lore as they are primarily damage roles as opposed to healers and support with buffs and empowering teammates as they should be. I have had fun playing Hpally stacking haste + int + jade spirit as you can actually provide viable heals during proc uptime although sadly you're still falling short of resto shammy, so you might as well just play that. As for mobility, take word of glory off your bars and spec pursuit of justice and you're basically like a shammy who is always in ghost wolf but who's heals do only 80% of what they normally do. The movement is rad, the Hoj is good and hpally is a great escort healer as you can heal on the run, keep up with some FCs and you can throw on EF and put out some damage too thanks to holy shock. Unfortunately, as I had mentioned, they're gimped resto shammies so if I do play a game on hpally I feel like a fool because my team would benefit more if I were on my resto shammy.



Rogue: My baby. My rogue in my signature is the only reason why my sub had continued after 2009. Nothing is more fun than playing my rogue and I miss being able to clutch solo return with gouge and bombs. Now it's a different beast and all about 1 shotting in the opener. We used to call that feline gameplay. (feline is a non explicit term for what we used to call it) This has never been fun to me which is why back in the day I never ran AB +5 weapon damage with ZG buff + Dragonslayer. There are too many rogues these days who are not playing objectives how they should. I see a lot of ambushing pets. If your team has more than 1 rogue, you're at a huge loss especially when it comes to mid fights although 2 good rogues can basically win any game if they're in Skype. Back in the day we didn't spec heavily into stealth because you spend more time creeping around the map in stealth than actually doing anything useful. Cross sapping however is my favorite thing as a rogue since blizzard took away our in combat CC. Laying saps in mid so your FC can cross unscathed can be what rogue is all about. Until a priest wants some damage chart love too and dots the world. My biggest frustration that prevents me from playing rogue is that horde never have healers, never have a FC and somehow never are capable of running an offense that actually comes within 50 yards of EFC. I can't tell you how many /days played I've wasted sitting on ally roof near EFC waiting for my offense to choose to run north. Most rip my hair out moments I ever encounter as it always results in our fc dying right before our team can finally enter ally base.



TLDR: I guess I really loved playing rogue but II haven't really played rogue since cata due to the gameplay being completely different and due to rogues class stacking so poorly. Everybody wants to play rogue but nobody wants to FC or heal, or play objectives for that matter so I'm more of an asset on these other classes / roles. WW monk is fun but the class stacking of WW can be very detrimental if it does happen. I really don't like healing as most of the time I'm the only healer and I still have to FC and I'm still the only one interested in focusing objectives. The last time I enjoyed FCing was on my dodge rogue. I simply hate the idea of FCing in a world where druids have travel form etc. The ToT tricks are cool, but there's not much need for them any more as 19s are a 1 shot fest for the most part. Even if you have 4.4k hp you can still get globaled easily. Not to mention, nobody can find their way to EFC so you spend a lot of time waiting for your offense to move north and they never do.



I hope you enjoyed the read,
Mocha
 
Is this for premades?

Anyway, I think you might like mage more if you played arcane over frost. I was told to play frost when I first joined the bracket but I'm perma-burned out on Frost after BC, so I thought I'd try arcane. Arcane is very effective. You can put out damage in the range of just about everyone but boomkins with good healer support, you can play a far more advanced position than shamans, rogues or druids (IE: You can actually land the important polies and CS's) and you're great support for your FC and healers (Nova/AE rogues/feral openers, esp NE SMeld now).

You have a true CS so your lock out is far more deadly, and you can control 2-3 healers at a time depending on their class. Then on top of that poly doesn't give you a 50/50 shot of not being able to cover a trinket or a secondary duration CC because the healer ran out of range (#pathtoafrica). Also, come on, what rogue is out there sapping healers in mid at 19? Every healer has to cast 24/7 because of the damage. You can't really tell me you consider rogue sap to be on par with mage poly.

Anyway, that's my valiant defense of mages.. I think I do okay in BGs, and I'm very rusty so I think there's a lot of room for improvement.

Edit: Once I have more time I'll try to roll a second 19 and make it a healer. Seems like a lot of people don't want to heal and are forced to and I wouldn't mind healing!
 
They also don't provide any desired burst dps. Locks are not used in any competitive games and for good reason. There's no point in me queuing one in PUGs when I can provide better CC, survivability, burst, and sustained damage on pretty much any other classes.

Caught my eye. You do realise that destro probably has the highest burst capability in the bracket, besides feral? Also, fear is one of the strongest CC, doesn't break instantly on damage and doesn't DR with anything in this bracket. They also do decent sustained damage so I don't understand why you're being so negative about how locks are atm. Or maybe the meta is so much different in US that everyone just tunnels locks on their rogues/ferals because LOL LOCK AHAH FRE KIL and you literally can't do anything in a pug as lock because of that, but sounds pretty unlikely to me.
 


Caught my eye. You do realise that destro probably has the highest burst capability in the bracket, besides feral? Also, fear is one of the strongest CC, doesn't break instantly on damage and doesn't DR with anything in this bracket. They also do decent sustained damage so I don't understand why you're being so negative about how locks are atm. Or maybe the meta is so much different in US that everyone just tunnels locks on their rogues/ferals because LOL LOCK AHAH FRE KIL and you literally can't do anything in a pug as lock because of that, but sounds pretty unlikely to me.


I don't really see locks make it out of their own GY as they'll die to a moonfire dot + EF xD. I have noticed some burst from them but nothing I've taken seriously in games and nothing compared to feral, rogue, bm, arms.


That's just me though.
 


Caught my eye. You do realise that destro probably has the highest burst capability in the bracket, besides feral? Also, fear is one of the strongest CC, doesn't break instantly on damage and doesn't DR with anything in this bracket. They also do decent sustained damage so I don't understand why you're being so negative about how locks are atm. Or maybe the meta is so much different in US that everyone just tunnels locks on their rogues/ferals because LOL LOCK AHAH FRE KIL and you literally can't do anything in a pug as lock because of that, but sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Horde often doesn't have healers. Life as a non-mobile caster can suck a lot in that scenario. Also if you only have one healer, 99% of the time locks are bottom priority.
 


Caught my eye. You do realise that destro probably has the highest burst capability in the bracket, besides feral? Also, fear is one of the strongest CC, doesn't break instantly on damage and doesn't DR with anything in this bracket. They also do decent sustained damage so I don't understand why you're being so negative about how locks are atm. Or maybe the meta is so much different in US that everyone just tunnels locks on their rogues/ferals because LOL LOCK AHAH FRE KIL and you literally can't do anything in a pug as lock because of that, but sounds pretty unlikely to me.
Demo does scoreboard damage, nothing else. Destru may have burst but it is impossible to reliably get it off on priority targets.

Fear doesn't break instantly but it breaks too early to be more than an interrupt with cast time most of the time.
 
I don't really see locks make it out of their own GY as they'll die to a moonfire dot + EF xD. I have noticed some burst from them but nothing I've taken seriously in games and nothing compared to feral, rogue, bm, arms.


That's just me though.

They die to a moonfire dot + EF the same way as any non-hybrid. Chaos bolt into 2x confla (+ imp bolts) is somewhere around 1,5-2k damage in a global or two, not too shabby imo.

Horde often doesn't have healers. Life as a non-mobile caster can suck a lot in that scenario. Also if you only have one healer, 99% of the time locks are bottom priority.


If you only have one healer, the whole team will probably be wiping anyways, so that's that.

Demo does scoreboard damage, nothing else. Destru may have burst but it is impossible to reliably get it off on priority targets.

Fear doesn't break instantly but it breaks too early to be more than an interrupt with cast time most of the time.


Agreed with the demo part. We play different regions (assume you moved to US full time), so the meta and class compositions are somewhat different, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it being impossible to get a chaos bolt cast off, even though it is up to 3sec cast time.

Anyways, I'm not here to start a debate how warlocks are the saviors of heavens and are above all other classes. Just saying that I disagree with what Mocha said about locks having no burst, bad sustained damage and worse CC than almost any other class. Gonna be repeating myself here but I don't see how 2k damage globals and a CC that is ranged, doen't instantly break from damage and doesn't DR with anything, is bad. If the WSGs on US are truly so much different from EU and you simply can't benefit from fear or the burst and you basically sit @ GY all game every game, then I guess I'm wrong.
 
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They die to a moonfire dot + EF the same way as any non-hybrid. Chaos bolt into 2x confla + lash of pain macro is somewhere around 2k damage in 2 globals, not too shabby imo.



If you only have one healer, the whole team will probably be wiping anyways, so that's that.



[/COLOR]Agreed with the demo part. We play different regions (assume you moved to US full time), so the meta and class compositions are somewhat different, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it being impossible to get a chaos bolt cast off, even though it is up to 3sec cast time.




no lash of pain at 19. full haste destro is fun though havent bothered with other builds. its nice if you can sit back and chaos bolt stuff but even with mouseover/focus macros people usually prebubble it
 
They die to a moonfire dot + EF the same way as any non-hybrid. Chaos bolt into 2x confla + lash of pain macro is somewhere around 2k damage in 2 globals, not too shabby imo.

If you only have one healer, the whole team will probably be wiping anyways, so that's that.

Agreed with the demo part. We play different regions (assume you moved to US full time), so the meta and class compositions are somewhat different, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it being impossible to get a chaos bolt cast off, even though it is up to 3sec cast time.
Unfortunately we don't get Succubus before 20, so no Lash of Pain.

Yes, I am talking from a US point of view, things might be different in Europe. Here, as a lock, especially destru, you would probably have a warrior (or four) and a BM monk sitting on you during the entire mid fight. I also find it hard to see how you ever get a Chaos Bolt off on the EFC, or even a ranged DPS who pays attention.
 
Even if you have 4.4k hp you can still get globaled easily. Not to mention, nobody can find their way to EFC so you spend a lot of time waiting for your offense to move north and they never do.

A longer discussion could be in order surrounding the current states of nightly pug games in the 19 bracket, etc.

My comment will be two sided, the first being that this game and the 19 meta has speed up a ton. For better or worse, globals mean more, 1 shots are commonplace, whether its from a feral or rogue. I used to play a warrior a long long long time ago in my off days when I wasn't farming raid mats or raiding, and it was a completely different game, but while it still had its metas, it felt slower, not in a reactionary way, but in basic numbers sense. There was more time for clutch, more gaps of opportunity.

When, after ending my raiding career and I had decided to cancel my sub, an old friend of mine told me to come back to twinking (I had dabbled in a few pre made teams in the 20/24 bracket throughout cata/mop). I couldn't stand the current state of warrior, and saw many of what I thought were the old metas still prevalent. Another buddy of mine told me to dabble in druid, and said boomy was broken. I knew resto fc took a level of experience I wasn't sure I wanted to commit to yet, so I rolled feral thinking I would reap the best of both worlds.

I am sorely disappointed in feral, a spec which I love, for while its play is incredibly powerful, its a primary factor in the imbalance and speeding up factor of which I have come to hate this bracket for.

Today I finished Patts fc set, got my Tarantula Sash, and will probably be fcing for a while until feral gets the nerf.

know I can't convince anyone to not play a class they may love, but the plain fact is, I have seen absolutely no one who knows how to play feral for efficient objective play in this entire bracket besides feralordx. Please stop playing feral, disc, rogue, and x, y, and z if you don't know how to play them in their current state, ESPECIALLY if they are a class that is only beneficial in objective gameplay and you have no idea how to play for the objective.

Which brings me to my 2nd topic, new blood in the bracket. To expand the bracket, you gotta advertise, and its amazing what community leaders have done for the 19 community, getting nightly games, multiple skilled guilds, etc etc. That being said, you cannot reap the benefits of both worlds immediately.

Games become rage quit fests, yelling matches at newbies to the bracket not fully geared or not "properly" playing to the level that is seen as acceptable. It sucks, and I'm not gonna even try to argue that, it will always suck, because there is a vast skill divide there, a time divide, an experience divide. But the key to that is patience and teaching.

If toxics decide to join games (and you know exactly who they are almost immediately) then I'm all for kicking them, or at least strongly suggesting things to them.

But that path of action can't be taken with every new face. And it can't be the go to reactionary stance. Or your back to the pit you worked hard to dig out of; few pops and an insular community.

Pops die when hope for the match dies. And it happens all the time, when games are far from over, through sheer frustration from vet players at the lack of objective minded players to new players frustrated that they can't seem to acclimate immediately to the standards.

Mocha is right when I wish he was sorely wrong, nobody can seem to find their way to anywhere on the map, unless your running with a team of people who know each other, or are in Skype together, or arnt complete idiots.

Its demoralizing and makes people entirely committed to the bracket rethink their dedication, and their want to play what they love *cough* Mocha *cough* because they feel that they should be putting in effort for their team, and when they put in the effort, they don't reap the reward as everyone is dicking around, quiting or raging, or are lost trying to play objectives that only a handful seem interested in.

It sucks, and thats my rant for the night.

GN, best wishes.
 
Warrior: Warrior to me has always been about CC

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When did you start playing... Because they've always been hamstring spam bots.....

I made my first twink in late 2006 or early 2007 (Private Bigmoranz). My max level Druid was a 39 Feral and then a 49 Boomkin. I stopped Twinking mid-BC and came back for 2014 Twinkcup. My point is that Hamstring is hardly a CC. The role of a Warrior is and always has been to pump out as much damage as possible while being very disruptive to healers. The current meta for Warriors is exactly that.
 
I made my first twink in late 2006 or early 2007 (Private Bigmoranz). My max level Druid was a 39 Feral and then a 49 Boomkin. I stopped Twinking mid-BC and came back for 2014 Twinkcup. My point is that Hamstring is hardly a CC. The role of a Warrior is and always has been to pump out as much damage as possible while being very disruptive to healers. The current meta for Warriors is exactly that.

its what you call a wet noodle CC.... a CC that isnt quite a soft CC and no where near a hard CC
 
I made my first twink in late 2006 or early 2007 (Private Bigmoranz). My max level Druid was a 39 Feral and then a 49 Boomkin. I stopped Twinking mid-BC and came back for 2014 Twinkcup. My point is that Hamstring is hardly a CC. The role of a Warrior is and always has been to pump out as much damage as possible while being very disruptive to healers. The current meta for Warriors is exactly that.

My opinion was based on the events up until Cataclysm. Hamstring was an extremely gamebreakinig CC at the time. We used to mod our sap macros to hamstring and bind it to shift scroll wheel up and down because it completely snares an entire offense. In a world where ranged DPS wasn't really common, warriors were used only for their CC. Aside from Enti's for a week in WOTLK, warriors have never been any source of viable dps like they had been from the 2 months of MOP we had pops and the 2 months of WOD we've had pops. They were used for their mitigation, CC, and FCing. Warriors outside of 19s has always been different and more accurate to your statement but they've never been anything close to warriors outside of our bracket.



In realtime, no cata release has not been recent. But in terms of time relevant to 19s, it's actually still pretty recent as we've only really had maybe 4-5 months accumulated of 19s pops since mid/late cataclysm.
 
All I do is play healers. Most people do not play healers because they deem they not "fun". Healing is a thankless position. If you keep people alive, nothing is said. When people die, healers are the first to get blamed. And no one ever looks at the healing charts, only the damage charts. How many of the SS posted here are sorted by healing numbers as opposed to damage?
Healers are often focus fired as well. How many times have you yelled "get that DPSer" as opposed to " kill the healer!". There have been games that have been polymorphic almost the entire game, or sapped. Do you think a. Mage or rogue with bother with a DPS.
But, by choosing the role of healer you become one of the few, not one of the many.
/cheers
 

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