My Concerns with the Twink Cup

[Pvv]

First I want to start off with saying that I am excited for the Twink Cup as you should be. And look forward to playing in it.

But I must stress my concerns.

1. People under the age of 18 in the US aren't actually allowed to play, in many states this could be vaguely defined as "gambling" but as this is run by donations I don't think there is cause for concern. People under the age of 18 (US) will actually lose all amateur status and the ability to continue with high school sports and clubs. This is something I deal with at my place of work on a daily basis.

2. People known to be DDoS are being allowed to participate. Granted it is easy to avoid and people are actively seeking IPs in hopes of having them for the future is disgraceful. The fact that there are high end twinks doing it and are on some very skilled guild is even worse. Disallowing anyone who has been know to do this should automaticly be disqualified from playing.

3. Money. The big reason and reason most of the teams are wanting to play. If this gets any bigger people will be required to claim the income on taxes, many people wouldn't but I would be as a business owner.

4. Rules. I believe this is the biggest problem in my eyes. The people who have set this up from my point of view have been friends for years and rules almost always seem to reflect what about 10 people agree on. IE. 2 stealthers but FC Druid doesn't count. Why? They use stealth to get to the flag and often are with the other stealthers. Druids already have an advantage over all other classes with the displacer talent and sprint. Also the rules be being set by who I assume hasn't played 19s in a bit and is leaning on others to understand the play styles of the bracket for the recent games. *My 2 Cents*.... And the players he are mainly listening to twink from 1 Server and focused heavely on 1 guild. I know I've bashed people on the forums and this isn't a bash, just a concern that the rest of the twinks not on this server are being ignored.

EDIT: 5. People buying GF'd accounts, this just pisses me off that it wasn't their toon, more of my preference on this.

TLDR: Should be 18+ only, Cheaters are still allowed to play, Money is climbing almost too high for only 1 place payment, Rules are being set by what seems to be like 10 people.


PS: Waiting for the flames but I wanted to get this off my chest.

 

[Superstylin]

First I want to start off with saying that I am excited for the Twink Cup as you should be. And look forward to playing in it.

But I must stress my concerns.

1. People under the age of 18 in the US aren't actually allowed to play, in many states this could be vaguely defined as "gambling" but as this is run by donations I don't think there is cause for concern. People under the age of 18 (US) will actually lose all amateur status and the ability to continue with high school sports and clubs. This is something I deal with at my place of work on a daily basis.

2. People known to be DDoS are being allowed to participate. Granted it is easy to avoid and people are actively seeking IPs in hopes of having them for the future is disgraceful. The fact that there are high end twinks doing it and are on some very skilled guild is even worse. Disallowing anyone who has been know to do this should automaticly be disqualified from playing.

3. Money. The big reason and reason most of the teams are wanting to play. If this gets any bigger people will be required to claim the income on taxes, many people wouldn't but I would be as a business owner.

4. Rules. I believe this is the biggest problem in my eyes. The people who have set this up from my point of view have been friends for years and rules almost always seem to reflect what about 10 people agree on. IE. 2 stealthers but FC Druid doesn't count. Why? They use stealth to get to the flag and often are with the other stealthers. Druids already have an advantage over all other classes with the displacer talent and sprint. Also the rules be being set by who I assume hasn't played 19s in a bit and is leaning on others to understand the play styles of the bracket for the recent games. *My 2 Cents*.... And the players he are mainly listening to twink from 1 Server and focused heavely on 1 guild. I know I've bashed people on the forums and this isn't a bash, just a concern that the rest of the twinks not on this server are being ignored.

EDIT: 5. People buying GF'd accounts, this just pisses me off that it wasn't their toon, more of my preference on this.

TLDR: Should be 18+ only, Cheaters are still allowed to play, Money is climbing almost too high for only 1 place payment, Rules are being set by what seems to be like 10 people.


PS: Waiting for the flames but I wanted to get this off my chest.

Lol.

 

[Rusks]

so what ddosers are going to be playing?

The rules reflect somthing the 19s comunity has had far before the mid fight strat was even a thing. FC doesnt count as a stealth because all they really do with stealth is cross mid to grab the flag

also who even cares if they bought their account? only 2-3 gfed items are even good these days and they certainly arent going to affect the outcome of a game.

 

[Pvv]

Never said I was making a popularity post, I'm just post my concerns. I actually don't like the community on TI and don't really post that much until recently. With the current rule near every team will be running 2 Druids FC/Boom most likely, BM, Arms, Disc, this doesn't allow much leeway with teams. I don't care about likes/upvotes/karma, so please provide critisism. I look forward to hearing from people who will do nothing but "Lol" and "You're a moron."

 

[Superstylin]

Never said I was making a popularity post, I'm just post my concerns. I actually don't like the community on TI and don't really post that much until recently. With the current rule near every team will be running 2 Druids FC/Boom most likely, BM, Arms, Disc, this doesn't allow much leeway with teams. I don't care about likes/upvotes/karma, so please provide critisism. I look forward to hearing from people who will do nothing but "Lol" and "You're a moron."

Nearly every team will be running 2 druids as FC and Boomkin because that is the best classes to go for. As for BM, Arms, Disc, those are all classes that people should select for their team.

For leeway with teams, you need to remember that there are 10 various classes, and that each class plays a pivotal role in the team. We put the rules in place so that people could not run "cheese" comps, such as 4 boomkins and 3 rogues etc. That is just plain common sense.

With the 2 class limit, excluding Arms and BMs, and the stealth limit, that provides teams with the variation of comps while still providing a fair playing field.

I implore you to play a few pugs to get a feel of the various classes and how they compare to others, just so you can see the reason behind the comp rule decision.

 

[Rusks]

so how would ur ideal rules look like

no rules! super sticky glue, magic dust, ddos, and pouch of marbles are all okay!

 

[Pvv]

so how would ur ideal rules look like

Don't put a limit on stealthers if you want to exclude a class who needs to do it and is often paired with the other druid. If you are going to use stealth you should be considered a stealther. I understand that they will use it to only get the flag but if you use it you should be considered what you are, A STEALTHER. Sorry Had to caps

 

[Superstylin]

and then there are paladins :^]

Touché

 

[Pvv]

no rules! super sticky glue, magic dust, ddos, and pouch of marbles are all okay!

Thank your for proving my point on what kind of posts I was expecting. I come from an era that used all that and I didn't even bring that up due to the fact we are going to be wargaming. Now please leave this thread to the adults.

 

[Rusks]

Thank your for proving my point on what kind of posts I was expecting. I come from an era that used all that and I didn't even bring that up due to the fact we are going to be wargaming. Now please leave this thread to the adults.

I am an adult. Also if you are going to suggest the current ruleset is bad why dont you tell us what you think they should be.

 

[Pvv]

I am an adult. Also if you are going to suggest the current ruleset is bad why dont you tell us what you think they should be.

I didn't tell what they should be, not my place too. Just gave my 2 cents on it. You asked me and I gave my opinion on the subject. And this is still proving my point that the same people who frequent TI 19 forums act childish on the forums. You've given no construction critism and that was what the goal of this post was. Not a "My epeen is bigger" contest.

 

[Superstylin]

I didn't tell what they should be, not my place too. Just gave my 2 cents on it. You asked me and I gave my opinion on the subject. And this is still proving my point that the same people who frequent TI 19 forums act childish on the forums. You've given no construction critism and that was what the goal of this post was. Not a "My epeen is bigger" contest.

Lol. Rusks was simply asking for your input on the rules and stated that he was indeed not a child after you called him one. If you have no idea what the rules should even be in the first place, it is definitely not your place to say that they are not right. If you had an ounce of common sense for 19s you should be able to tell that these rules are 99% in the right direction.

This is not an epeen contest. Just facts.

 

[Pvv]

Lol. Rusks was simply asking for your input on the rules and stated that he was indeed not a child after you called him one. If you have no idea what the rules should even be in the first place, it is definitely not your place to say that they are not right. If you had an ounce of common sense for 19s you should be able to tell that these rules are 99% in the right direction.

This is not an epeen contest. Just facts.

So out of everything I said you guys are only bringing up the rules, feel free to move to the other subjects. And the sarcastic posts don't often reflect on forum/texts and such. I was asked my opinion and stated it, I never said mine was right or wrong and it isn't my place to put the rules in place. This isn't my tourny, therefor I can't make the rules, so of course it isn't my place to set them. Bring up a discussion on something that I feel is open to debate since it isn't in stone and being laughed at seems childish.

 

[Shamatix]

4. Rules. I believe this is the biggest problem in my eyes. The people who have set this up from my point of view have been friends for years and rules almost always seem to reflect what about 10 people agree on. IE. 2 stealthers but FC Druid doesn't count. Why? They use stealth to get to the flag and often are with the other stealthers. Druids already have an advantage over all other classes with the displacer talent and sprint. Also the rules be being set by who I assume hasn't played 19s in a bit and is leaning on others to understand the play styles of the bracket for the recent games. *My 2 Cents*.... And the players he are mainly listening to twink from 1 Server and focused heavely on 1 guild. I know I've bashed people on the forums and this isn't a bash, just a concern that the rest of the twinks not on this server are being ignored.

Yes a guardian can stealth to the flag which is a nice "deal"and sure has displacer, but BM monks has their endless slow, rolls etc and I doubt that many teams will be running with a gurdian druid already and if you counted a guardian druid towards stealth I am pretty sure none at all would be running with a guardian druid. I might be wrong tho as I havnt played that much 19.

EDIT: 5. People buying GF'd accounts, this just pisses me off that it wasn't their toon, more of my preference on this.

Twinks have always bought items, chars and accounts, and I would rather prefer people buying eithe, than sitting over, loads of people, maybe more than you think will be coming from EU to US to play this turnament and is years behind in gear compared to the US people and already just by playing on US servers sits iwth +-200 MS. So I see no problem in general if people wants to spend money on this game.

 

[saxxon]

Legit points, never understood why the stealthy limit is 2 and yet 3 classes can stealth, but as a rogue who wants a chance to play I'm not going to complain!

Tax evasion is my specialty.

 

[Myrm]

People under the age of 18 in the US aren't actually allowed to play, in many states this could be vaguely defined as "gambling" but as this is run by donations I don't think there is cause for concern. People under the age of 18 (US) will actually lose all amateur status and the ability to continue with high school sports and clubs. This is something I deal with at my place of work on a daily basis.

There is no buy-in so it's not gambling. I'm not sure about the second part of your statement, but this is an individual choice that each person will have to make for themselves. I might add a disclaimer that players under 18 might become disqualified from amateur sports by participating in the tournament. I'd appreciate if you could post something from an official source about this.

4. Rules. I believe this is the biggest problem in my eyes. The people who have set this up from my point of view have been friends for years and rules almost always seem to reflect what about 10 people agree on. IE. 2 stealthers but FC Druid doesn't count. Why? They use stealth to get to the flag and often are with the other stealthers. Druids already have an advantage over all other classes with the displacer talent and sprint. Also the rules be being set by who I assume hasn't played 19s in a bit and is leaning on others to understand the play styles of the bracket for the recent games. *My 2 Cents*.... And the players he are mainly listening to twink from 1 Server and focused heavely on 1 guild. I know I've bashed people on the forums and this isn't a bash, just a concern that the rest of the twinks not on this server are being ignored.

I made the Twink Cup discussion thread so that people could present their opinions about what rules or formatting they'd like to see, and I altered some of my original plans based on the feedback received. In general I try to be open minded and fair with everyone that I interact with, but ultimately I do value the opinions of the people that are likely to create teams the most because without them there would be no tournament. Some people who might have been interested in making a team chose not to express their opinion. The primary point of contention was whether or not feral druids would be banned, and I sided against the majority of the community on this in favor of Nasti. I didn't know Nasti at all before he started posting in the Twink Cup thread but I've probably talked to him directly about the rules just as much as I've talked to Pizza. I'm doing my best to create a tournament that will allow people the opportunity to play the game the way they want to while also being fair and enjoyable for everyone. Everyone doesn't agree all the time, and sometimes compromises have to be made, that doesn't mean there is collusion.

 

[Pvv]

There is no buy-in so it's not gambling. I'm not sure about the second part of your statement, but this is an individual choice that each person will have to make for themselves. I might add a disclaimer that players under 18 might become disqualified from amateur sports by participating in the tournament. I'd appreciate if you could post something from an official source about this.

I made the Twink Cup discussion thread so that people could present their opinions about what rules or formatting they'd like to see, and I altered some of my original plans based on the feedback received. In general I try to be open minded and fair with everyone that I interact with, but ultimately I do value the opinions of the people that are likely to create teams the most because without them there would be no tournament. Some people who might have been interested in making a team chose not to express their opinion. The primary point of contention was whether or not feral druids would be banned, and I sided against the majority of the community on this in favor of Nasti. I didn't know Nasti at all before he started posting in the Twink Cup thread but I've probably talked to him directly about the rules just as much as I've talked to Pizza. I'm doing my best to create a tournament that will allow people the opportunity to play the game the way they want to while also being fair and enjoyable for everyone. Everyone doesn't agree all the time, and sometimes compromises have to be made, that doesn't mean there is collusion.

Thank you for your post, it wasn't my intention to start drama but many people who disagree seem to be under the mindset of "there is only one way of doing this."


And as for the age, I will look for the exact wording under MI law, this is the law I deal with. But I do know for a fact that if you try to sign up for things inside MI and you are under 18 you are required to give up your amateur status and voids all scholarships you've heared up until that time. I know people don't plan on doing this I'm just trying to protect the TC with some of the legal jargon.

EDIT: MI isn't soley based on age but also your status in high school. IE, you graduated or you haven't.

 

[Rusks]

1. banning people under 18 is silly, if they are worried about their amatuer status they can chose not accept the winnings and their group can distribute their winnings (thats how i was told to deal with it when I was in high school). also its not like anyone is going to go "oh shit its that Feralordx kid on the other chess team quick tell the ref and governing body"

2. I understand where youre comming from, but what are we going to do? ddos is hard to prove and honestly bigmoran is the only one who has admitted to having someone hit off and he apoligized for it saying it wont happen again

3. I agree, we should cap it at whatever is the maximum you can get and not have to claim on your taxes with all the spill over going to next year or maybe other events. also i think the money is sent in multiple payouts Myrm correct me if im wrong

4. if you want to make a suggestion speak up. Myrm isnt getting pushed around by Pizza at all if thats what you are worried about. most of the people who are making suggestions for rule changes ect are not even part of pizza's guild

5. so then lets ban GFed gear and then no one will buy a GFed account?

 

[Superstylin]

2. I understand where youre comming from, but what are we going to do? ddos is hard to prove and honestly bigmoran is the only one who has admitted to having someone hit off and he apoligized for it saying it wont happen again

Way more people than Bigmoran have booters, they just aren't as vocal about it. Only way to avoid the DDoS problem is to proxy up.

 

[Pvv]

1. banning people under 18 is silly, if they are worried about their amatuer status they can chose not accept the winnings and their group can distribute their winnings (thats how i was told to deal with it when I was in high school). also its not like anyone is going to go "oh shit its that Feralordx kid on the other chess team quick tell the ref and governing body"

2. I understand where youre comming from, but what are we going to do? ddos is hard to prove and honestly bigmoran is the only one who has admitted to having someone hit off and he apoligized for it saying it wont happen again

3. I agree, we should cap it at whatever is the maximum you can get and not have to claim on your taxes with all the spill over going to next year or maybe other events. also i think the money is sent in multiple payouts Myrm correct me if im wrong

4. if you want to make a suggestion speak up. Myrm isnt getting pushed around by Pizza at all if thats what you are worried about. most of the people who are making suggestions for rule changes ect are not even part of pizza's guild

You underestimate what money can do to people. Also you can't just give it to someone else, at least in MI, it would have to be donated or put into a trust which I suspect wouldn't happen. If people under the age of 18/still in high school are going to participate I would write up some sort of waiver saying that they give up all rights to the prize money and wish to donate or have them sign one that states they give up their amateur status. I don't think too many people have a problem with giving up their status but some do. I wouldn't have been able to complete in the TC if it was around at the time.

And the ddos, their is evidence of people asking for IPs and sending requests to it only to find dead ends with VPNs. Don't always believe everyone you talked to, even friends lie from time to time.



Like I said, I deal with the amateur stuff almost on a daily bases within MI.