Rivfader
OG
Imp CoC? Early frost? You also greatly underestimate the value of pet nova. It's ok though, you are so obstinate I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything, just bring up some counterpoints so that others aren't led astray.
Mage Specs
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Imp CoC? Early frost? You also greatly underestimate the value of pet nova. It's ok though, you are so obstinate I'm not actually trying to convince you of anything, just bring up some counterpoints so that others aren't led astray.
C O T U S
Legend
a root that expires before you cast another spell! a talent that makes your frostbolt cast faster, so you can pretend like you're casting concussive shot, with a cast time, once every 15 seconds!
no improved counterspell! no ability to do damage while moving! forced to hard cast in a bracket where you have 20% physical DR and white damage is out of control!
UTILITY
no improved counterspell! no ability to do damage while moving! forced to hard cast in a bracket where you have 20% physical DR and white damage is out of control!
UTILITY
Arknoodle
Legend
Are you really that bad?
You start casting and use the nova when it's almost done...
Seriously I can't believe i thought you had more skill then that....
A good played doesnt need the silence from improve CS thats a crutch ability
24nubsdie
Legend
Freeranged
Legend
He was talking about Imp CoC, which combined with GCD, does make it difficult to take advantage of the root.
A good player most certainly does need blanket CS to bring down Priests or Pallys.
Maul
OG
hey guys and girls, cotus herejust wanted to stop by real quick and let you know that arcane is not the best spec for mages at 20 have a good day
46 and 2 ahead of me
Deadvulcano
Legend
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.
Rivfader
OG
You're looking at it from a 1v1 perspective. Imp CoC is VERY useful for helping yoir teammates gain/close gaps. Frost is a support role, comparing frost and arcane in an individual setting is comparing apples to oranges. You have to look at the bigger picture.
Frost's control shines in a team setting with competent teammates whereas arcane is basically the same whether ypu're alone or with a group.
People with poor situational awareness, or a poor team, will struggle as frost. That's why it may not seem so strong to some people. However, the skillcap is higher allowing good players to take the class further in team play.
Posting scoreboards is irrelevant to comparing frost and arcane because even the best played frost mage shouldn't be topping charts, they should be helping their teammates to do so.
C O T U S
Legend
no one is looking at it from a 1v1 perspective. pretty much every statement in this post is wrong except the last one about frost mages not topping charts. seriously, wtf, this post is just so bizarrely off-base i don't know what quite to make of it
i honestly get the feeling that none of you guys have ever pvped in this game past level 20ish. i don't know how this is possible, because a bunch of you have p2p accounts, but i stopped trying to figure out twink players a long time ago. anyone who has ever pvped at max level, even at a basic level, would understand how big of a role blanket silences play in this game. it's not like imp cs is the only blanket silence in this game.....i can think of several others, and i'm sure there are ones i don't even know about now, since i've never played at 85
i don't know a nice way of putting this, but you guys just do not understand WoW pvp very well. i keep seeing people throw around terms like "skill capped", "taking skill", and "situational awareness", and you obviously do not understand what the terms mean (although you clearly do have a general idea). the only way you're going to understand these things is by playing with and against players who are actually good - that is how myself, and everyone else who knows what they're doing, went from noobs to good players
i wrote out a little more about learning to improve your play and understanding the game, but deleted it, because i honestly think this is a waste of time, and i'm just gonna get flamed anyway. just know that it is possible, and it's really not that difficult - a good example of a player who has done this is sabelith, who has gotten consistently better and better at playing his 20 mage and now plays it at a high level
Mialo
The Architect.
Both Arcane and Frost have their do's and don'ts. That's just a fact. Arcane has huge damage output due to consistent mobility and some nice blanket CS. Both important in some settings. Cotus +1.
However, Frost's role is different, as Rifvader stated. Support, in a manner of peels, slows, chills, roots,... If played well, you can hold a whole team off your FC and get him time to get away. Sure, in AB, which you usually play, Frost has a less significant role, but it still has proven me his worth. The CoC root can't indeed be used to get a Shatter, but rooting a Warrior, Ret Pala and some Rogues, hitting on your FC, with one single ability, isn't too bad.
I've played both specs, during a long period of time, and its clear they are both viable. As everyone knows, Arcane is more offensive, Frost is more supportive. Always have been like this, and it still remains the same.
However, Frost's role is different, as Rifvader stated. Support, in a manner of peels, slows, chills, roots,... If played well, you can hold a whole team off your FC and get him time to get away. Sure, in AB, which you usually play, Frost has a less significant role, but it still has proven me his worth. The CoC root can't indeed be used to get a Shatter, but rooting a Warrior, Ret Pala and some Rogues, hitting on your FC, with one single ability, isn't too bad.
I've played both specs, during a long period of time, and its clear they are both viable. As everyone knows, Arcane is more offensive, Frost is more supportive. Always have been like this, and it still remains the same.
Jdoring
Legend
You know, i like both specs, and i think both have thier perks, but i will admit that Arcane is the better mage spec at 20, its just frost has things i find very useful when playing with my group of friends, like earl and budson etc etc. Budson especially i mean i think a few people can vouch that if i can snare and root enough so that he can close a gap things can get ugly.
That being said Arcane is just like, crazy with damage, I have an arcane horde mage now, and i can see why Cotus, and Sabe, and Mialu all play arcane, because it just rapes face when you play horde, Arcane has potential on alliance, but in my somewhat experience opinion (cotus mentioned this already) its hard to be successful with arcane because of all the belfs running around.
Im not trying to flame anyone about anything, just giving my opinion, feel free to comment on it
That being said Arcane is just like, crazy with damage, I have an arcane horde mage now, and i can see why Cotus, and Sabe, and Mialu all play arcane, because it just rapes face when you play horde, Arcane has potential on alliance, but in my somewhat experience opinion (cotus mentioned this already) its hard to be successful with arcane because of all the belfs running around.
Im not trying to flame anyone about anything, just giving my opinion, feel free to comment on it
Tooh87
Legend
Arknoodle
Legend
hey guys and girls, cotus here
just wanted to stop by real quick and let you know that arcane is not the best spec for mages at 20
have a good day
Defending his pet healer.
Also @ cotus Speaking from alliance persepctive horde has waaaaaay better caster gear Im talking over 20% crit and still haveing 120 plus SP
Hard to do on alliance.
And also @ cotus To compare end game pvp to 20 pvp when youve never done endgame pvp is the dumbest thing ive ever heard... OFC blanket silences are neccasarry at 85 When you can get 45% damage reduc from resil making you live a hell of alot longer but at 20 just regular CS is enough because people drop like rocks.
Id prefere frost at 20 because you can peel better. Thats my only reason, sure it may not have as much dmg but improved CoC is JUST long enough to get those peskey rogues and wars out of melee range on your FC blink away and use a few frostbolts and novas to further slow the pack.
OR
You can silence healers and peel away the people chasing the FC with dmg. Also a good technique
Both strategies work just fine and i realize this is only one example but hopefully some people will see that argueing over this is retarded becauuuuuuseeee
THE POINT of both our battlegrounds is NOT to do damage and get kills its to CAP points or flags. and reguardless of which spec does more damage they are both exceptional at providing support to your team.
BACK ON TOPIC it comes down to what you like to play more.
(to clarify ^ means back on the topic of mage specs not calling people idiots for theyre opinions on said specs)
YES arcane will move more and do more damage and imo generally be more fun
OR
Frost which will still be fun and also be a bit of a challenge which some people relish and whatnot
mookjr
Legend
nah, like i said earlier, it comes down to who you play with more. if you are solo queuing or going in with a healer friend, play arcane. if you are going in with premades, play frost.
Its not fun to 'control the field' if none of your team mates help you and it's not productive to put up huge numbers if you don't win the games.
I also think that frost is much more useful in WSG then it is in AB.
Its not fun to 'control the field' if none of your team mates help you and it's not productive to put up huge numbers if you don't win the games.
I also think that frost is much more useful in WSG then it is in AB.
C O T U S
Legend
these comments are just sooo dumb, seriously. why do i even post on this forum? go check someone's armory, nobody has over 20% crit and "still haveing 120 plus SP". are these the same "geared mages" who get "300 arcane barrage crits", like you've pointed out before?
blanket silences are BETTER in a bracket where people drop almost immediately, not the other way around. good lord. you guys wonder why i'm so ridiculously patronizing towards you and constantly call you noobs. it's because you ARE noobs! these comments are all idiotic! i don't even know what else to say!
have fun on your 20 mages!
Eliot
The Specialist
Frost, in my opinion, is a support role. Arcane is not. If you are specced frost you are assisting with defensive or offensive crowd control. To say the additional CC abilities available to frost are not useful is incorrect. A frost mage can be crucial on defense in WSG to assist the FC in gaining distance against opponents. Frost mages are very useful and important for a solid defense. An arcane mage is a great tool to utilize on offense to silence healers while quickly bursting the EFC and remaining mobile.
Arknoodle
Legend
Coming from the guy that's never done endgame pvp. Go duke it out at 85 THEN talk to me about where blanket silences are more useful.
Your not patronizing your just an ass whose own opinions are so deeply covered in shit that the light of a correct answer can never break through to you.
I wash my hands of you sir, good day.
Freeranged
Legend
Most arena games at 85 end due to CC rotations or instagibbing from cleave. Blanket silence is important at end-game, but when you can be bursted 100-0% by nearly any class at 20 in 5 seconds (and alternatively, brought back 1-100% in 2 instant casts heals), the significance of blanket silence at 20 can't be argued.