Lvl 19 BM hunter?

[Mesikämmen]

yeah this is true but sv can use kill command to, and a hunter pet @ 19 has around 600hp with no mitigation talents, and you can root the pet, he's burst has gone .

But BM has 10% increased crit chance on KC, also I am not saying they are good because of kill command, but because of the stun that gives them 2seconds more to move towards the direction I'm heading to, also 2sec to deal damage I can't heal. And with scatter shot that's a second interrupt for my heals and another 4 seconds to keep close to me. And from what I've seen, BM pets usually have around 700 hp. And you can always dismiss pet and call it back if you see someone trying to kill it.



Dunno how well BMs perform against other classes tho.

 

[Arkant]

with a competent group setup BM is more viable. somebody needs to keep that pet healed obviously, but the same can be said about keeping your entire team alive. if the enemies are focusing on your pet, you can pretty much wreck stuff freely.

Have you ever tried to heal a 700hp player through focus fire?

 

[Dorigon]

with a competent group setup BM is more viable. somebody needs to keep that pet healed obviously, but the same can be said about keeping your entire team alive. if the enemies are focusing on your pet, you can pretty much wreck stuff freely.

Sorry, but you're delusional about this - a BM hunter is a hunter that gives up hundreds of hp and its main burst ability for a short duration stun on a 1min CD (that is, if 600hp pet is alive).

 

[The Saint]

with a competent group setup BM is more viable. somebody needs to keep that pet healed obviously, but the same can be said about keeping your entire team alive. if the enemies are focusing on your pet, you can pretty much wreck stuff freely.

but thats the problem the pet cant be kept alive unless you have a healer focus healing it, lets say its alive it also has to be in melee range to use all its abilitys, with no dash tell lvl 20 and no trinket like abilitys tell lvl 50,



i'm not saying its not viable cause lets face it a naked hunter is viable, but i wouldnt put so much faith in something i have so little control over.



that said i have 0 control on you and all the faith in the world <3

 

[chíll]

saint you're missing the keyword, control. theres no "you just kill the pet LAWL DERP" because its not that simple. obviously if you're chillaxing about at mid i can see why you'd want explosive shot.. but the relevant difference is that you lose a stun (which is absolutely essential, the stuns make or break a class.) for basically blank damage.

 

[Arkant]

saint you're missing the keyword, control. theres no "you just kill the pet LAWL DERP" because its not that simple. obviously if you're chillaxing about at mid i can see why you'd want explosive shot.. but the relevant difference is that you lose a stun (which is absolutely essential, the stuns make or break a class.) for basically blank damage.

I'm still waiting for the part where you explain why you can't just kill the pet.

 

[Youaintgood]

saint you're missing the keyword, control. theres no "you just kill the pet LAWL DERP" because its not that simple. obviously if you're chillaxing about at mid i can see why you'd want explosive shot.. but the relevant difference is that you lose a stun (which is absolutely essential, the stuns make or break a class.) for basically blank damage.

ES>any ability you gain through other talents. To implement such a sudden and bursty tick damage on your opponent really pressures them to play defensive. It's all about knowing where to put your burst, and how to put it into your shot rotation. As oppose to BM, which will limit you at 19 because you become more so reliant on your pet for burst, where as SV can focus dump KC and ES if necessary and create almost unhealable damage.



Keep in mind, it's NOT always smart to focus dump, which is pretty much your only option if you go bm. AS and KC, meh...NTY

 

[The Saint]

saint you're missing the keyword, control. theres no "you just kill the pet LAWL DERP" because its not that simple. obviously if you're chillaxing about at mid i can see why you'd want explosive shot.. but the relevant difference is that you lose a stun (which is absolutely essential, the stuns make or break a class.) for basically blank damage.

i agree control > dmg, but the pet dont even need to be dead just 5 feet from its target, and its out the game.

 

[chíll]

alright, let me rephrase, Survival might be better, but so far i have yet to experience a survival hunter in EU that could play @ the level of multiple bm hunters. (obviously this is IMO.)

EDIT: except Mezzjuc, thats one bawler hunter.

 

[The Saint]

i have yet to experience a survival hunter in EU that could play @ the level of multiple bm hunters.

ofc one sv hunter cant play at the lvl of muti bm's, cause he's kinda out number'd.

 

[Hurrx]

surv burst damage is more predictable than bm, so you know when to heal in advance



but against bm u might just get kill commanded for 600 in a stun while getting arc shot spammed



bm is better against priests and paladins at least, but surv might be better overall

 

[Sneaky]

Wow, you guys are so afraid of change and are so negative, that someone proposes something new and out of the ordinary and half of you shoot it down.



Anyways, I have a few things to say (mostly from a rogue PoV) about BM compared to survival.



1. As Hurrx said, Surv burst is way more predictable. As a NE rogue I can often shadowmeld explosive shots to absorb that burst but I can't do the same with BM.



2. You can LoS a surv hunter which pretty much takes his damage to zero, but a BM hunter's pet can still be on you if you LoS and can kill you quite easily if you have already lost health.



3. Focusing on a BM hunter's pet means less focusing on a player less than you would normally do, allowing the hunter himself to do more damage regardless of your attempts to kill his pet. Even if you do kill his pet, if the pet gets an intimidation/kill command off before he dies, then it's fine because it's skills are on CD anyways...you just wasted 10 seconds killing a pet with no stun (cuz stun will be on CD).



4. Surv hunters are so popular that every time you see one, you think it's given that he's survival. A hunter being BM will give him the advantage of surprise. When I choose how I structure my attacks and CDs on hunters, I think about the hunter being surv, and having disengage, scatter shot, and concussive shot. I structure my attacks so that I can get through those 3 skills. However, if he has a stun, that's an additional skill I wouldn't normally be thinking about counter-acting (unless I knew he was BM beforehand), and even if I did, that would mean 4 skills I would have to think about getting through in order to kill the hunter.



5. Usually CC'ing a surv hunter stops ALL of his damage output (for example, if I gouge a hunter I will take no damage as his pet won't do much to me, and the hunter himself is incapacitated). However, if I was to CC a BM hunter (let's say I gouge him or a mage poly's him), there is still considerable damage output from his pet.



Anyways, that's all I can think of for right now. BM hunters sound like fun and it's also something new from the everyday OP surv hunter.



I'm pretty sure a BM and surv hunter would be a viable comp when talking of hunters on a premade team, as opposed to 2x surv hunter.



In the end, I guess it really comes down to skill. I'm pretty a sure a well played BM hunter could surpass a surv hunter.

 

[Dorigon]

or u can accept the fact that a surv hunter has way more burst and hp and burst kills more than anything in this broken bracket



surv hunters are so heavily played for a reason



sneaky, surv hunter's pet basically is the same as a bm hunter's pet, can u plz show me where this "huge burst" comes from? it will prob have a bit higher ap (but even then, ap scales poorly on pets), and both specs have kill command - where is this mythical bm pet dps?

 

[Youaintgood]

Wow, you guys are so afraid of change and are so negative, that someone proposes something new and out of the ordinary and half of you shoot it down.



Anyways, I have a few things to say (mostly from a rogue PoV) about BM compared to survival.



1. As Hurrx said, Surv burst is way more predictable. As a NE rogue I can often shadowmeld explosive shots to absorb that burst but I can't do the same with BM.



2. You can LoS a surv hunter which pretty much takes his damage to zero, but a BM hunter's pet can still be on you if you LoS and can kill you quite easily if you have already lost health.



3. Focusing on a BM hunter's pet means less focusing on a player less than you would normally do, allowing the hunter himself to do more damage regardless of your attempts to kill his pet. Even if you do kill his pet, if the pet gets an intimidation/kill command off before he dies, then it's fine because it's skills are on CD anyways...you just wasted 10 seconds killing a pet with no stun (cuz stun will be on CD).



4. Surv hunters are so popular that every time you see one, you think it's given that he's survival. A hunter being BM will give him the advantage of surprise. When I choose how I structure my attacks and CDs on hunters, I think about the hunter being surv, and having disengage, scatter shot, and concussive shot. I structure my attacks so that I can get through those 3 skills. However, if he has a stun, that's an additional skill I wouldn't normally be thinking about counter-acting (unless I knew he was BM beforehand), and even if I did, that would mean 4 skills I would have to think about getting through in order to kill the hunter.



5. Usually CC'ing a surv hunter stops ALL of his damage output (for example, if I gouge a hunter I will take no damage as his pet won't do much to me, and the hunter himself is incapacitated). However, if I was to CC a BM hunter (let's say I gouge him or a mage poly's him), there is still considerable damage output from his pet.



Anyways, that's all I can think of for right now. BM hunters sound like fun and it's also something new from the everyday OP surv hunter.



I'm pretty sure a BM and surv hunter would be a viable comp when talking of hunters on a premade team, as opposed to 2x surv hunter.



In the end, I guess it really comes down to skill. I'm pretty a sure a well played BM hunter could surpass a surv hunter.

You really aren't the person to be theorycrafting. Surv is better...From a pug aspect 90% of the time...Premades 100% of the time.

 

[Mesikämmen]

You really aren't the person to be theorycrafting. Surv is better...From a pug aspect 90% of the time...Premades 100% of the time.

Cool response bro. I like your theorycraft more.

 

[Dorigon]

Cool response bro. I like your theorycraft more.

Neither of them theorycrafted.

 

[Arkant]

Wow, you guys are so afraid of change and are so negative, that someone proposes something new and out of the ordinary and half of you shoot it down.



Anyways, I have a few things to say (mostly from a rogue PoV) about BM compared to survival.



1. As Hurrx said, Surv burst is way more predictable. As a NE rogue I can often shadowmeld explosive shots to absorb that burst but I can't do the same with BM.



2. You can LoS a surv hunter which pretty much takes his damage to zero, but a BM hunter's pet can still be on you if you LoS and can kill you quite easily if you have already lost health.



3. Focusing on a BM hunter's pet means less focusing on a player less than you would normally do, allowing the hunter himself to do more damage regardless of your attempts to kill his pet. Even if you do kill his pet, if the pet gets an intimidation/kill command off before he dies, then it's fine because it's skills are on CD anyways...you just wasted 10 seconds killing a pet with no stun (cuz stun will be on CD).



4. Surv hunters are so popular that every time you see one, you think it's given that he's survival. A hunter being BM will give him the advantage of surprise. When I choose how I structure my attacks and CDs on hunters, I think about the hunter being surv, and having disengage, scatter shot, and concussive shot. I structure my attacks so that I can get through those 3 skills. However, if he has a stun, that's an additional skill I wouldn't normally be thinking about counter-acting (unless I knew he was BM beforehand), and even if I did, that would mean 4 skills I would have to think about getting through in order to kill the hunter.



5. Usually CC'ing a surv hunter stops ALL of his damage output (for example, if I gouge a hunter I will take no damage as his pet won't do much to me, and the hunter himself is incapacitated). However, if I was to CC a BM hunter (let's say I gouge him or a mage poly's him), there is still considerable damage output from his pet.



Anyways, that's all I can think of for right now. BM hunters sound like fun and it's also something new from the everyday OP surv hunter.



I'm pretty sure a BM and surv hunter would be a viable comp when talking of hunters on a premade team, as opposed to 2x surv hunter.



In the end, I guess it really comes down to skill. I'm pretty a sure a well played BM hunter could surpass a surv hunter.

1. You can shadowmeld 1 ES every 3 minutes, great.



2. You know that a SV hunter pet doesn't that much less damage than a BM pet?



3. If your team needs 10 seconds to kill a 700 hp pet then you're doing it wrong. And getting Intimidation off doesn't mean anything if it wasn't the right time/target.



4. BattlegroundTargets.



5. You know that a SV hunter pet doesn't that much less damage than a BM pet?





And people aren't "afraid of change", they are saying that SV is better than BM and that it's total garbage and noone should play it.

 

[The Saint]

i dont need a theorycraft to tell me sv does more burst dmg than bm.



i'm playing bm atm and its perfectly viable and i recormend trying it.



lets pretend my pet is unkillable, its still VERY cc'able with no trinket or HoF ability tell much higher levels.



you lose stam(pets get stam from are stam)/crit by specing sv.



so imo SV>BM>MM

 

[Sneaky]

1. You can shadowmeld 1 ES every 3 minutes, great.



2. You know that a SV hunter pet doesn't that much less damage than a BM pet?



3. If your team needs 10 seconds to kill a 700 hp pet then you're doing it wrong. And getting Intimidation off doesn't mean anything if it wasn't the right time/target.



4. BattlegroundTargets.



5. You know that a SV hunter pet doesn't that much less damage than a BM pet?





And people aren't "afraid of change", they are saying that SV is better than BM and that it's total garbage and noone should play it.

1. Every 2 minutes actually. Also, my hp is 1200 - one explosive shot can take more than half my health...me staying alive can be game changing.



2. KC has 10% more crit chance.



3. You do know Pets pop up on Healbot or whatever addon healers have right?



4. I'd say about 90% of people don't have that.



5. You're right - I was thinking of a higher level hunter.

 

[Boà Thaì]

My English is bad but I think everyone will understand:



If you play hunter spec survi you are weak, if you think survival hunter spec is the best you are really very low.



Friends hunters, I'll tell you a terrible secret. We have a spell that is called "dismiss pet"



Your pet has 700HP, it is easy to kill, snare, scatter, fear, sheep.

My pet has 700HP, he gets killed 3-4 times a bg, no snare, no scatter, if fear / sheep 8sec I use "dismiss Pet" (2sec cast) and I resummoned



Against hunter, I dismiss pet / vanish explosifShot (-50foca) / snare / disengage for rush hunter in melee / scatter / invoke pet / stun / arcane shot / KC / raptor strike / arcane shot.



Against mage, I dismiss pet, I w8 nova (2nd nova vs mage frost ) and I Summoned pet.



Priest dici dont kill my pet



Vs all class, I use dismiss pet and my pet does not die.



So seriously, learn to play your hunter, and this is not because a guy has 200k+ HKs that it is the reference.



PS : BM is really nice for mid farm