S pr uo
Legend
Spruo @ Kil'jaeden - Game Guide - World of Warcraft
still need cape/ MH weapon, rate me
(on gear not my sexy bod)
still need cape/ MH weapon, rate me
(on gear not my sexy bod)
level 70 rogue
- Thread starter S pr uo
- Start date
iaccidentallytwink
Guild Master
What are you gearing for? Makes a big difference.
Eveill
OG
I don't know why some of the rogue "experts" on this site say the Kara dagger is BIS. It isn't, MH or OH. You're losing 20+ dps on the weapon alone vs. Crux of the Apocalypse. Doesn't sound like much but 114.5 vs 87.7 is a 130% increase. So you gain 2 gem slots, whoopee! You're taking a T6.5 level weapon and saying it's inferior vs. T4. I could care less about the gem slot argument, someone with a lot more theorycraft than me or anyone on this board under their belt ranks it vastly inferior mathematically and I can speak from experience. It blows.
You would never take a Naxx weapon instead of an ICC. You would never take Blackwing Descent or BOT weapons vs. Dragonsoul. Yet for some reason there are proponents here that say "But it has more gem slots!" and will tell you to take a T4 vs. T6 or 6.5 weapon.
Get rid of the Bloodstone Band. BIS for PVP is still the vendor PVP one and Hard Khorium Band is 2nd. Grats on getting that BTW. I don't know anyone with the recipe and the mats are ridiculous.
The PVP neck is better than what you have for BG's. Necklace of the Deep is BIS PVE.
You don't need 4 piece Slayer bonuses or even 2. Only the boots are BIS. Shoulders BIS, Brutal Glad. Bracers, Guardian's Dragonhide. Belt get Don Alejandro's Money Belt from Mt Hyjal.
Rogue 61-70 Twink Armor Chart - ShadowPanther.net
You already know about the MH and back so no need to comment.
I will say this, the Brutal Gladiator's Shiv is BIS for OH as a stand alone if you only have the OH Glaive. I know it pains you to hear this but bank the OH until you have both. Having one just makes you more of a target anyways.
Rogue 61-70 Twink Weapons Chart - ShadowPanther.net
I know we have a ton of "experts" here that will argue with my definition of BIS but... I have never seen anyone, ever, top this site for rogues. Even for end game I put more faith in Shadowpanther that Askmrrobot.
You would never take a Naxx weapon instead of an ICC. You would never take Blackwing Descent or BOT weapons vs. Dragonsoul. Yet for some reason there are proponents here that say "But it has more gem slots!" and will tell you to take a T4 vs. T6 or 6.5 weapon.
Get rid of the Bloodstone Band. BIS for PVP is still the vendor PVP one and Hard Khorium Band is 2nd. Grats on getting that BTW. I don't know anyone with the recipe and the mats are ridiculous.
The PVP neck is better than what you have for BG's. Necklace of the Deep is BIS PVE.
You don't need 4 piece Slayer bonuses or even 2. Only the boots are BIS. Shoulders BIS, Brutal Glad. Bracers, Guardian's Dragonhide. Belt get Don Alejandro's Money Belt from Mt Hyjal.
Rogue 61-70 Twink Armor Chart - ShadowPanther.net
You already know about the MH and back so no need to comment.
I will say this, the Brutal Gladiator's Shiv is BIS for OH as a stand alone if you only have the OH Glaive. I know it pains you to hear this but bank the OH until you have both. Having one just makes you more of a target anyways.
Rogue 61-70 Twink Weapons Chart - ShadowPanther.net
I know we have a ton of "experts" here that will argue with my definition of BIS but... I have never seen anyone, ever, top this site for rogues. Even for end game I put more faith in Shadowpanther that Askmrrobot.
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threesets
Beats on Fourteens
2 gem slots is 80 ap not including the sub agility increase. Ap affects all abilites: ie: ambush hemo backstab evis etc, etc. Higher dps on an oh does little, because of the little dAmage an oh wep auto Attack does as sub. Increase damage or evis ambush and backstab is > a minor auto attack increase for an oh wep
Eveill
OG
I'm not faith in a website it's personal experience too.
You could whore yourself up with gem slot items. 2 gem slot neck, Hand of the Deceiver, Blade of the Unrequitted etc. Yet they aren't BIS but hey, you'd have 5 extra gem slots compared to Brutal gear. I have yet to see anyone spend months saying OMG I just got Hand of the Deceiver and Blade of the Unrequited and said OHHHH I AM BIS! You can stack AP and AGI with that sure. It's still not BIS.
I tell you what Krislol, you top a perfected mathematical formula that's been in place and relatively undisputed for 6 years, itemize thousands of rogue items for every bracket including end game for 3 expansions and vanilla and then get back to me. Shadowpanther did every single twink bracket from the inception of the concept and has done end game raiding since vanilla. Yet the only thing that people on this site EVER dispute with it and how they rank items is Blade of the Unrequited because it has 2 extra gem slots.
You've done nothing.
So lets see; put my faith in a site with 6+ years of rating rogue gear, 1,000's of recorded and ranked items, rebalanced BIS tables based on expansion, talent tree changes, stat rebalancing or.... hmmm you.
Tough one.
You could whore yourself up with gem slot items. 2 gem slot neck, Hand of the Deceiver, Blade of the Unrequitted etc. Yet they aren't BIS but hey, you'd have 5 extra gem slots compared to Brutal gear. I have yet to see anyone spend months saying OMG I just got Hand of the Deceiver and Blade of the Unrequited and said OHHHH I AM BIS! You can stack AP and AGI with that sure. It's still not BIS.
I tell you what Krislol, you top a perfected mathematical formula that's been in place and relatively undisputed for 6 years, itemize thousands of rogue items for every bracket including end game for 3 expansions and vanilla and then get back to me. Shadowpanther did every single twink bracket from the inception of the concept and has done end game raiding since vanilla. Yet the only thing that people on this site EVER dispute with it and how they rank items is Blade of the Unrequited because it has 2 extra gem slots.
You've done nothing.
So lets see; put my faith in a site with 6+ years of rating rogue gear, 1,000's of recorded and ranked items, rebalanced BIS tables based on expansion, talent tree changes, stat rebalancing or.... hmmm you.
Tough one.
Krislol
Legend
What to know what I trust? The players that use the items and not a website that calculates them. Have you taken a look at the "bis" 85? Yeah, totally the top. That's why every top player is using it, not. From what I've seen, no one even runs with that set up. The top rogues in the world don't even come close to that, would you like to argue with them? I guess this website knows so much more.
Volsci
Legend
Rogues are absolutely, positively, NOT based off of AP and burst.
In fact, it is much the opposite.
The true judgement of a good rogue is control, not burst. And anybody can recognize this by themselves, with a simple test, for a smaller down scale:
One: Why are there no renowned / acclaimed rogue movies that are purely ambush eviscerate GG? Do you even see videos of things like that with more then a few thousand hits? Look at an unmercey, akrios, evolas, reckful, neilyo.. and even Mute way back in vanilla, and you will see that the thing that made these rogues so outstanding is there ungodly timing and usage of CC abilities.
Burst can be mitigated and worked around, the only hard counter to the skill it takes to master CC work is to be a skilled player yourself. If you know a rogue is going to put their effort into burst, then under the assumption you don't flat out get one shotted (which isn't a show of skill in itself) you can work around it quite easily; dismantle that [ShS] ShD CS, gouge kidneys, watch burst trinkets.
Your team is more likely to win a BG with a rogue that effectively uses his CD's for the point of objective, rather then the rogue who can lolburst randoms (even in objective areas).
To quote somebody from a year or so back on TI, forgive me as I can't remember their names, I believe that:
Solid stats and resilience are sort of like "A weaponchain.. it's sort of like Sex. When you've got it, you don't really realize you have it.. but by god, when you don't have it, you sure know it".
In my opinion, the main reason behind the fact that PvE geared rogues are topping the charts is simply because of the bracket's deficits in itself. It takes a better player to go out and organize raids to gain gear, while any average joe can win ten or fifteen battlegrounds to pick up s4. It's not that the s4 itself isn't good.. it's that the players with it aren't. IMO, if you could pit RvR w\ double sap, between one rogue with BiS PvE & one more on the resil side, both of which being at a perfect skill level, the resilience rogue would come out on top. So many people in this bracket are bad and don't know what to do when a rogue pops behind them and eats 90% of their hp.
In my personal experience, especially in battlegrounds, if a rogue opens on me with ambush then it's an easy win [as a rogue].
/endrant
In fact, it is much the opposite.
The true judgement of a good rogue is control, not burst. And anybody can recognize this by themselves, with a simple test, for a smaller down scale:
One: Why are there no renowned / acclaimed rogue movies that are purely ambush eviscerate GG? Do you even see videos of things like that with more then a few thousand hits? Look at an unmercey, akrios, evolas, reckful, neilyo.. and even Mute way back in vanilla, and you will see that the thing that made these rogues so outstanding is there ungodly timing and usage of CC abilities.
Burst can be mitigated and worked around, the only hard counter to the skill it takes to master CC work is to be a skilled player yourself. If you know a rogue is going to put their effort into burst, then under the assumption you don't flat out get one shotted (which isn't a show of skill in itself) you can work around it quite easily; dismantle that [ShS] ShD CS, gouge kidneys, watch burst trinkets.
Your team is more likely to win a BG with a rogue that effectively uses his CD's for the point of objective, rather then the rogue who can lolburst randoms (even in objective areas).
To quote somebody from a year or so back on TI, forgive me as I can't remember their names, I believe that:
Solid stats and resilience are sort of like "A weaponchain.. it's sort of like Sex. When you've got it, you don't really realize you have it.. but by god, when you don't have it, you sure know it".
In my opinion, the main reason behind the fact that PvE geared rogues are topping the charts is simply because of the bracket's deficits in itself. It takes a better player to go out and organize raids to gain gear, while any average joe can win ten or fifteen battlegrounds to pick up s4. It's not that the s4 itself isn't good.. it's that the players with it aren't. IMO, if you could pit RvR w\ double sap, between one rogue with BiS PvE & one more on the resil side, both of which being at a perfect skill level, the resilience rogue would come out on top. So many people in this bracket are bad and don't know what to do when a rogue pops behind them and eats 90% of their hp.
In my personal experience, especially in battlegrounds, if a rogue opens on me with ambush then it's an easy win [as a rogue].
/endrant
Krislol
Legend
You're paragraph means nothing tbh. Yes, top rogues such as reckful are good because of their control, but the 70 bracket is not like 85, or what 70 used to be. You can control as much as possible as a rogue in this bracket and still not do good. You can in fact see a difference between a good and bad rogue, but all of this has nothing to do with the fact that kara dagger is bis offhand. It makes me wonder if you actually read the previous posts, or just wanted to add your input on the state of rogues.
threesets
Beats on Fourteens
I'm talking about 70s not 85s. The truth is rogues are one of the top bursts even while controling their opponent. When ambush can crit for 60% of somebody's health, and rogues can kill a healer in a stun lock, while cc- ing Their partner, I'd say rouges are based off of burst, FOR THE 70 BRACKET!
Volsci
Legend
I in fact went through, cringing, while reading every post.
Regardless of 70 vs 85... a 2400 rated 85 will succeed in the 70's bracket, a 2400 rated 70 will not necessarily succeed at 85.
Edit: jist of my paragraph; TLDR; a rogue, at level 70, exhibiting perfect control, will succeed over a rogue who can do perfect DPS. Especially because most of the rogues worried about burst don't pay attention to energy regen ticks for starting their sequence, anyway.
Edit2: A rogue will *not* kill a good healer in a stunlock. And it is hardly of any importance if you can roflstomp baddies, or someone without a trinket.
Regardless of 70 vs 85... a 2400 rated 85 will succeed in the 70's bracket, a 2400 rated 70 will not necessarily succeed at 85.
Edit: jist of my paragraph; TLDR; a rogue, at level 70, exhibiting perfect control, will succeed over a rogue who can do perfect DPS. Especially because most of the rogues worried about burst don't pay attention to energy regen ticks for starting their sequence, anyway.
Edit2: A rogue will *not* kill a good healer in a stunlock. And it is hardly of any importance if you can roflstomp baddies, or someone without a trinket.
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Krislol
Legend
Man, I swear your posts make you look more and more clueless. This whole forum had nothing to do with control, or 85 arena, or player skill, until you brought it up. The simple argument was bis off hand weapon. It has nothing to do with the skill of the person behind the character.