Level 19 WW monk

[Lateraldrop]

you still get the proc limit quicker if you hit more, ele force doesnt proc by staring at them, thats simple maths ; in a 30 second fight you can get 5 procs but someone with good rng can go up to 10 with the limit, but by hitting often you increase ur chance of proccing it, even if it has a limit

Yoh misunderstand the mechanic it doesn't proc to a limit and then stop it constantly checks the time since the last event that could cause a chance to proc then adjusts the chance to proc accordingly. Essentially you cannot make the ele force enchant proc more or faster than it does no matter how many times you attack. I have simmed this many times w different classes and build setups and checked it against the formula.
[doublepost=1547485185,1547485043][/doublepost]Weapon swapping also does not effect proc chance for ele force. It is very much not the same as crusader.

 

[Rockastansky]

Yoh misunderstand the mechanic it doesn't proc to a limit and then stop it constantly checks the time since the last event that could cause a chance to proc then adjusts the chance to proc accordingly. Essentially you cannot make the ele force enchant proc more or faster than it does no matter how many times you attack. I have simmed this many times w different classes and build setups and checked it against the formula.
[doublepost=1547485185,1547485043][/doublepost]Weapon swapping also does not effect proc chance for ele force. It is very much not the same as crusader.

A new weapon with a different elemental force enchant on it can 100% proc independently of another elemental force ppm timer that was used before it... confirmed... don't know how you are confused by that. The elemental force ppm is independent to itself, its not tied to the actual player or anything else. This exactly what you do at 29s with a survival hunter for max damage... swap weapons and keep applying DOTs.

If you have 1 weapon and you cast say 4 moonfire on 4 targets... you will get 1 elemental force proc total with in the duration that it can proc.... and it won't proc again inside that time frame no matter how many targets have moonfire on them... because all moonfires were cast using the same elemental force enchant.

If you swap weapons between each moonfire to a different weapon that is enchanted with a different elemental force... you can have each elemental force proc off each of those moonfires... so 4 potential elemental force procs.

 

[Lateraldrop]

Rppm a d ppm are different. I promise you it doesn't work the way you are thinking it does. Also there is no internal CD for the proc and no limiter. It proc 10 times a minute because of its own adjusting formula not from anything else switching the weapon does not change the formula or reset anything. Even with regular ppm you do not get more procs from weapon swap unless there is an internal CD. Internal cds are allot more common in trinkets than in the old weapon chants. For example weapon dealing crusader does not give you more overall price but lets you stack the buff.

 

[Rockastansky]

Rppm a d ppm are different. I promise you it doesn't work the way you are thinking it does. Also there is no internal CD for the proc and no limiter. It proc 10 times a minute because of its own adjusting formula not from anything else switching the weapon does not change the formula or reset anything. Even with regular ppm you do not get more procs from weapon swap unless there is an internal CD. Internal cds are allot more common in trinkets than in the old weapon chants. For example weapon dealing crusader does not give you more overall price but lets you stack the buff.

You are making it sound like elemental force (the proc) is tied to your character and your character can only have 10 elemental force procs per minute.. that is wrong... each elemental force enchant can have 10 procs per minute.

Hunters and Druids have this set up in almost every bracket... sure it works the best for DOTs, works just the same for melee to an obvious lesser degree.

 

[necroaqua]

you still get the proc limit quicker if you hit more, ele force doesnt proc by staring at them, thats simple maths ; in a 30 second fight you can get 5 procs but someone with good rng can go up to 10 with the limit, but by hitting often you increase ur chance of proccing it, even if it has a limit

Thats not how it works. Theres not a limit of 10 per minute that you can quickly hit. The chance to proc increases the longer you go without a proc. Someone attacking twice per second and someone attacking once every 2 seconds will have the same number of procs on average.

See https://xpoff.com/threads/how-rppm-works.81584/ for more details.

You have to do the same thing any Fury warrior will do... you will just do it worse.
2) Weapon swap... elemental force procs work just like crusader, so swap when ever a proc goes off so your next attack can also have a new elemental force proc happen from a new weapon. You can do this by simply making an equipment set.. call it set 1... then make a set 2 - change the weapons... and make a set 3 change the weapons... then drag those 3 equipment set buttons right onto your action bars. (no you don't need any crazy macros)... since tigers palm is your main attack you might also work this into a macro later to just swap weapons then use palm in a sequence.. have 3 buttons for that... might make it easier to manage... but really you should train yourself to constantly be swapping.
3) Make sure you prioritize Haste to maximize the amount of attacks you can do for elemental force spamming.

No. Crusader and Elemental force do NOT work the same way. Crusader is PPM and a buff. For crusader, haste means more attacks and more chances to proc. Elemental Force is RPPM and not a buff. For elemental force, haste increases the RPPM - but the number of proccable events does NOT change how often is procs. Also there is 0 point to swapping ele force with more ele force.

I also disagree that WW is like a fury warrior, since it has a slow and self-heal and doesn't have rampage and execute to burst hard. A pocket healer will help, but its not like fury that NEEDS a pocket healer and is super weak to kiting.

 

[migli]

Thats not how it works. Theres not a limit of 10 per minute that you can quickly hit. The chance to proc increases the longer you go without a proc. Someone attacking twice per second and someone attacking once every 2 seconds will have the same number of procs on average.

See https://xpoff.com/threads/how-rppm-works.81584/ for more details.





No. Crusader and Elemental force do NOT work the same way. Crusader is PPM and a buff. For crusader, haste means more attacks and more chances to proc. Elemental Force is RPPM and not a buff. For elemental force, haste increases the RPPM - but the number of proccable events does NOT change how often is procs. Also there is 0 point to swapping ele force with more ele force.

I also disagree that WW is like a fury warrior, since it has a slow and self-heal and doesn't have rampage and execute to burst hard. A pocket healer will help, but its not like fury that NEEDS a pocket healer and is super weak to kiting.

Yeah just went and read online about MoP enchants looks like they changed a lot in a hotfix! Thx for the thread.

And yeah, fury warr and monks are wayyy different i can perform well in skirmishes on my own due to sustain and mobility

 

[necroaqua]

You are making it sound like elemental force (the proc) is tied to your character and your character can only have 10 elemental force procs per minute.. that is wrong... each elemental force enchant can have 10 procs per minute.

Hunters and Druids have this set up in almost every bracket... sure it works the best for DOTs, works just the same for melee to an obvious lesser degree.

Elemental force is not tied to the character, no. It just doesn't work the way you're saying it does.

There is NO LIMIT on how many times elemental force can proc per minute. It could proc 12 times. It could proc 15 times. It could proc 8 times. On average, it will proc 10 times.

Elemental force works by checking for the last time you had a proccable event. The more time since the last event, the better your chance of getting a proc is. So if you have 2 attacks in quick succession, then the second is going to have a very low chance to proc. If you do a melee hit and dance out of range for 3 seconds, your next attack will have a much higher chance to proc.

Switching weapons RESETS this chance. There is NO point to swapping ele force to ele force. Weapon swapping is for BUFF enchants (crusader) because you can get a single buff per enchant, and weapon swapping allows you to get multiple buffs at the same time. Weapon swapping is also for ICD enchants (which are often buff enchants too). The Flintlocke Woodchucker is a good example of this. It has a 40 second ICD after it procs - so it can't proc for those 40 seconds. So you can switch to a different weapon in that timeframe (either gnomish, which is another 40s ICD buff - or incendiary to get big procs while buffed).

 

[Rockastansky]

Elemental force is not tied to the character, no. It just doesn't work the way you're saying it does.

There is NO LIMIT on how many times elemental force can proc per minute. It could proc 12 times. It could proc 15 times. It could proc 8 times. On average, it will proc 10 times.

Elemental force works by checking for the last time you had a proccable event. The more time since the last event, the better your chance of getting a proc is. So if you have 2 attacks in quick succession, then the second is going to have a very low chance to proc. If you do a melee hit and dance out of range for 3 seconds, your next attack will have a much higher chance to proc.

Switching weapons RESETS this chance. There is NO point to swapping ele force to ele force. Weapon swapping is for BUFF enchants (crusader) because you can get a single buff per enchant, and weapon swapping allows you to get multiple buffs at the same time. Weapon swapping is also for ICD enchants (which are often buff enchants too). The Flintlocke Woodchucker is a good example of this. It has a 40 second ICD after it procs - so it can't proc for those 40 seconds. So you can switch to a different weapon in that timeframe (either gnomish, which is another 40s ICD buff - or incendiary to get big procs while buffed).

Just for my clarification. I'm still not understanding.

I guess I don't see how that equals not weapon swapping tho... if I use Tigers palm and get a proc... as you said... my chance of getting another proc off right away goes way down because i have to wait for the next "proc window"... if I switch weapons and then use Tigers palm again the timer is reset (as you said resets the chance)... my chances of getting another proc right away go way up... why would you not do this?

 

[necroaqua]

Just for my clarification. I'm still not understanding.

I guess I don't see how that equals not weapon swapping tho... if I use Tigers palm and get a proc... as you said... my chance of getting another proc off right away goes way down because i have to wait for the next "proc window"... if I switch weapons and then use Tigers palm again the timer is reset (as you said resets the chance)... my chances of getting another proc right away go way up... why would you not do this?

When you weapon swap, the chance resets...to 0. The same as if you had done another attack. And it also resets your unlucky streak prevention (which is an additional protection against not getting a proc for a time - which doesn't actually come into play for ele force due to the high rppm, but does matter for other rppm enchants).

 

[Serebro]

nice little twink there dude good to keep to what you enjoy lots of love. keep it up

 

[Druiddroid]

Elemental force is not tied to the character, no. It just doesn't work the way you're saying it does.

There is NO LIMIT on how many times elemental force can proc per minute. It could proc 12 times. It could proc 15 times. It could proc 8 times. On average, it will proc 10 times.

Elemental force works by checking for the last time you had a proccable event. The more time since the last event, the better your chance of getting a proc is. So if you have 2 attacks in quick succession, then the second is going to have a very low chance to proc. If you do a melee hit and dance out of range for 3 seconds, your next attack will have a much higher chance to proc.

Switching weapons RESETS this chance. There is NO point to swapping ele force to ele force. Weapon swapping is for BUFF enchants (crusader) because you can get a single buff per enchant, and weapon swapping allows you to get multiple buffs at the same time. Weapon swapping is also for ICD enchants (which are often buff enchants too). The Flintlocke Woodchucker is a good example of this. It has a 40 second ICD after it procs - so it can't proc for those 40 seconds. So you can switch to a different weapon in that timeframe (either gnomish, which is another 40s ICD buff - or incendiary to get big procs while buffed).

Could you get 4 crusader buffs at once via weapon swapping? Or is it capped at 2?

 

[necroaqua]

Could you get 4 crusader buffs at once via weapon swapping? Or is it capped at 2?

You can get one crusader buff per weapon that has the enchant. If the same weapon that originally procs it, procs it again - then it refreshses. So weapon switching means 4 is definitely possible. 5-6 is also possible and has happened. Since it takes a GCD to switch weapons, there IS an upper limit based on how many times you can switch before the first set falls off (assuming you get the buff instantly each time). But realistically having a 2-3 sets of weapons with crusader can mean extra stacks.

 

[Druiddroid]

You can get one crusader buff per weapon that has the enchant. If the same weapon that originally procs it, procs it again - then it refreshses. So weapon switching means 4 is definitely possible. 5-6 is also possible and has happened. Since it takes a GCD to switch weapons, there IS an upper limit based on how many times you can switch before the first set falls off (assuming you get the buff instantly each time). But realistically having a 2-3 sets of weapons with crusader can mean extra stacks.

That's awesome. Thanks for the swift reply!

 

[Rockastansky]

You can get one crusader buff per weapon that has the enchant. If the same weapon that originally procs it, procs it again - then it refreshses. So weapon switching means 4 is definitely possible. 5-6 is also possible and has happened. Since it takes a GCD to switch weapons, there IS an upper limit based on how many times you can switch before the first set falls off (assuming you get the buff instantly each time). But realistically having a 2-3 sets of weapons with crusader can mean extra stacks.

If you do dual wield can each weapon proc 10 times per minute or are you still bound to the 10 per minute proc rate TOTAL?

 

[Melgane92]

Just for my clarification. I'm still not understanding.

I guess I don't see how that equals not weapon swapping tho... if I use Tigers palm and get a proc... as you said... my chance of getting another proc off right away goes way down because i have to wait for the next "proc window"... if I switch weapons and then use Tigers palm again the timer is reset (as you said resets the chance)... my chances of getting another proc right away go way up... why would you not do this?

You wouldnt do it because the cooldown that happens when you wep swap in combat. Unless something has changed or will change in new patch

 

[necroaqua]

If you do dual wield can each weapon proc 10 times per minute or are you still bound to the 10 per minute proc rate TOTAL?

Each enchant has its own proc rate. So dual wielding will be 20 procs on average. Its why dual wield survival hunter is viable.

 

[Swoops]

Just for my clarification. I'm still not understanding.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/6893549789?page=1

There have a been a few small changes since this post, but it's still a good breakdown of RPPM/enchant procs.