Level 1 Raiding in 3.2

Hi, I have been using this site for a while and just now took the time to register. You may know me as the level 1 twink Kikoman from youtube (go ahead, flame on about how bad I am). Anyway, I've come to you guys to get some opinions on level 1 raiding next patch, if this needs to be in the PTR forum please move it.



Here are my current goals for level 1 raiding next patch:

-10 man hogger

-5 man hogger

-3 man hogger

-25-40 man Fozruk (probably way to high of level to even attempt, but something along these lines). This would actually be really epic if achieved, this is one of the closest things to a boss encounter because of the kobold's unique abilities.



Here are the major problems I for see:

-Tanking: How is aggro going to be held? My twink is a warrior, and I will have full rage at all times from high level mobs, will heroic strike spam be enough? Sharpened Scarlet Kris [+5 weapon damage]

-Hitting: Judging by killing level 8-9 boars on PTR almost no white damage will hit (and if it does it hits for 1 damage), however yellow damage seems to hit for a normal amount and most of the time.

-Viable DPS classes: I imagine rogues will be one of the only, considering they have 2 yellow attacks. I am concerned they will pull aggro and we will end up with a rogue tank anyway. At first I thought hunters would be awesome with Feathered Arrow but I then realized all of there ranged damage is whites.

-Healers: I'm assuming we will need more healers than anything, the tank is going to be taking a lot of damage, but hopefully not enough to get 2/3 hit. I'm not sure what the best healers will be, but at least 1 priest and druid for buffs.





I'm not concerned about level 40+ one shotting the mobs, if that happens we will just wait for them to leave.



So what I am asking for you guys is what you think the resolutions will be for the major problems?



Would 4 other people be willing to make (or copy) their twinks to the PTR so we can test out a hogger raid?



Thanks for any assistance.
 
...you can only get 6 hit at level 1, and that mob requires 84% hit at level 1.When I created those mini raids on that WoWWiki page they were all about hitting the mob in the back. But, when aggro was controlled with racials and the mob was melee'ing/AoE'ing it's one thing, especially when we could have had 3k HP. But if he can stun or three shot everything it's another. It's quite futile attempting that mob, although it's an idea.



Hogger is brilliant. That is all.
 
Hmm did not see this forum.



Anyway 84% for yellows? Yeah that's not gonna happen. What do you think the ideal 5 man setup for hogger will be?
 
LeChango said:
Hmm did not see this forum.



Anyway 84% for yellows? Yeah that's not gonna happen. What do you think the ideal 5 man setup for hogger will be?

Try something like 40 manning a mage. I believe I saw a group of 40 taurens fight a naked 70 mage (he did have 2 piece T4 for interrupt resist). They were on vent, and he used macros to signify when he was going to use special moves, and stuff you could have the target use omen, or something for tanks and what not so they didn't just kill all your healers and what not. Or perhaps try swarming a level 60 infernal a lock summons that could be pretty fun.

[video=youtube;KpLsyk076Cc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpLsyk076Cc[/video]

No music but the idea is there.
 
Hey Kikoman and welcome. I guess you recognize me;).



I'm working on a tactic for 3vHogger involving 2 rogues and a mage. Not sure if I can do it on Hogger though, but it's basically a 3vBoss tactic. The mage is there for kites, not dps..It's not complete yet and I have to think through it further.



EDIT: I see no reason why a warrior should tank, no instant attack for agro, the armor wont change much against higher lvls and rogues have way better dodge.
 
But Kiko, I would love to work on this PvE shit with you (if there's much work to do>.<).. Been thinking a lot about it myself. Figuring out several elites to kill including HOgger etc..



EDIT: And I think using 2h would be superior to your dagger since you most likely won't be able to keep agro for long. So while you hit, make high hits;)
 
Boglund said:
Hey Kikoman and welcome. I guess you recognize me;).



I'm working on a tactic for 3vHogger involving 2 rogues and a mage. Not sure if I can do it on Hogger though, but it's basically a 3vBoss tactic. The mage is there for kites, not dps..It's not complete yet and I have to think through it further.



EDIT: I see no reason why a warrior should tank, no instant attack for agro, the armor wont change much against higher lvls and rogues have way better dodge.



Well obviously I would like to utilize Kikoman if possible. The only reason I think a warrior tank would be viable would be because of infinite heroic strikes at a very fast speed with 1.5 dagger. I think if given some time to get aggro that I could keep it throughout the fight to make it easy for heals. Rogues will probably not be able to generate as much threat considering energy restrictions. I don't think at the hogger level damage taken is going to be a big concern.



I think a Warrior, Rogue, Paladin team could pull it off if the paladin does not go oom to quickly. Hogger only has 666 hp which is not much considering I the tank will surpass it.



As for the 25+ man, if anyone can hold aggro and not get 1-2 shot it is entirely possible. Almost half the raid could be composed of spam heals coordinated to switch off when each other go oom.



I still believe if yellows can hit on a mob with a 50% or higher success rate that it can be done.



How do you calculate yellow hit chance based on mob level? I would like to see the farthest level I could push towards.



edit: Also hogger has a knockback, so the kiting method may not work out.
 
Rogues cant dodge from front? What are you trying to say, where else can they dodge? It's only the front they can dodge. Paladin is your best bet as healer I think. 2nd highest heal after priest, but slower casting time which will heal more than priest with spell power chants.



And about the knockback, as I said I don't think I can use my method on Hogger. I'll let you know when my strategy with 2 rogues and a mage is done.
 
I dont know if this is common knowlage, but last i checked every starting area has there own version of a "Hogger", some are rare spawns. Maybe people could try to do them all in a day as a community achivement?
 
Boglund said:
Rogues cant dodge from front? What are you trying to say, where else can they dodge? It's only the front they can dodge. Paladin is your best bet as healer I think. 2nd highest heal after priest, but slower casting time which will heal more than priest with spell power chants.



And about the knockback, as I said I don't think I can use my method on Hogger. I'll let you know when my strategy with 2 rogues and a mage is done.

Yeah disregard the dodge thing, I'm dumb. I was thinking in pvp if the opponent is in back (not the front) of the rogue then the rogue cannot dodge unless they pop evasion.



Warrior may not be the best tank, but I think it's worth a shot to try it out before we assume a rogue will tank it.



Grunge said:
I dont know if this is common knowlage, but last i checked every starting area has there own version of a "Hogger", some are rare spawns. Maybe people could try to do them all in a day as a community achivement?



I don't believe there are any other Elite mobs around level 11 besides for hogger.
 
There's a boar in Durotar as well, 666 HP like hogger.
 
Wow I was not aware of the amount of low level elites. I think Hogger still has to be the first raid even though I roll horde twinks, hogger is just the most well known and most likely to be seen on youtube.



I still don't think level 30s+ are out of the question. According to WoWWiki: The Base Miss Rate for Yellow Attacks is at a maximum 5%, not including any debuffs. With this being said yellows have a 95% chance to hit on any level without factoring in the mob's Dodge and Parry chance, this means any class that has a yellow attack (or 2 for rogues) will be viable for damaging high level mobs. I'm not sure if this scales dramatically with level but if it does then there will be a limit to the max level we can kill. I also don't know if damage reduction based off of armor will be a problem in damaging a higher level mob. I know in PVP I can damage a level 80 player with 15k+ armor for about 1/3rd -1/5th of my normal damage output.



I'd like to get a healer or 2 and a DPS on PTR and tests the limits of damage done and damage taken on mobs. Please post here or PM me if interested.
 
LeChango said:
Wow I was not aware of the amount of low level elites. I think Hogger still has to be the first raid even though I roll horde twinks, hogger is just the most well known and most likely to be seen on youtube.



I still don't think level 30s+ are out of the question. According to WoWWiki: The Base Miss Rate for Yellow Attacks is at a maximum 5%, not including any debuffs. With this being said yellows have a 95% chance to hit on any level without factoring in the mob's Dodge and Parry chance, this means any class that has a yellow attack (or 2 for rogues) will be viable for damaging high level mobs. I'm not sure if this scales dramatically with level but if it does then there will be a limit to the max level we can kill. I also don't know if damage reduction based off of armor will be a problem in damaging a higher level mob. I know in PVP I can damage a level 80 player with 15k+ armor for about 1/3rd -1/5th of my normal damage output.



I'd like to get a healer or 2 and a DPS on PTR and tests the limits of damage done and damage taken on mobs. Please post here or PM me if interested.



"base miss is at maximum"? That doesn't even make sense. 5% is for equal level, modified by increased levels. 84% hit for SS/Autoattack to never miss. You'd only hit 16/100 SS's and white attacks.
 
iaccidentallytwink said:
"base miss is at maximum"? That doesn't even make sense. 5% is for equal level, modified by increased levels. 84% hit for SS/Autoattack to never miss. You'd only hit 16/100 SS's and white attacks.





Hmm, I'm sure you know better than me about this. I know by experience that attacking a level 10 that almost all white attacks miss, but almost all yellows hit (besides for dodged/parried attacks), I saw no more than a 5% miss rate for yellows on a level 10. I would think that if the 5% scaled with level that I would see multiple misses on a level 10. I will get on PTR to re-evaluate this and also go in to the barrens to try on level 13+ mobs.



And I'm not sure about the PTR thing, but I'm guessing EU and US have different ones considering my PTR realmlist is: beta.us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com



Edit: I soloed a level 11 or 12 (not sure which was skulled) and I had 1 or 2 heroic strike misses, but parries and dodges were plentiful. I would say 60% or more of the hits were dodged or parried. I also examined that shooting my bow at higher level mobs did quite a bit of damage and barely ever missed, I'm not sure why this is. I guess hunter would probably be the best DPS if autoshot is the same miss chance as a warrior's shoot.
 
LeChango said:
Hmm, I'm sure you know better than me about this. I know by experience that attacking a level 10 that almost all white attacks miss, but almost all yellows hit (besides for dodged/parried attacks), I saw no more than a 5% miss rate for yellows on a level 10. I would think that if the 5% scaled with level that I would see multiple misses on a level 10. I will get on PTR to re-evaluate this and also go in to the barrens to try on level 13+ mobs.



And I'm not sure about the PTR thing, but I'm guessing EU and US have different ones considering my PTR realmlist is: beta.us.logon.worldofwarcraft.com



Edit: I soloed a level 11 or 12 (not sure which was skulled) and I had 1 or 2 heroic strike misses, but parries and dodges were plentiful. I would say 60% or more of the hits were dodged or parried. I also examined that shooting my bow at higher level mobs did quite a bit of damage and barely ever missed, I'm not sure why this is. I guess hunter would probably be the best DPS if autoshot is the same miss chance as a warrior's shoot.



Missrate against a level 10 is 18%. The missrate for white/yellow should be the same until you Dual Wield.
 
I'm not sure how (or even if at all) doable this is, but a candidate in the higher level range could be Taskmaster Fizzule. This would definitely have to be at least a 25-man boss.



EDIT: An easier one that we might be able to pare down to an exceptionally skilled 10-man team is Kel'Gash the Wicked. It looks like his chain lightning deals about 80 damage, which sounds reasonable. Melee probably around 60 and crushing blows of 100ish? There is also the challenge of making it there through the other troll mobs.
 

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