Legendary Item Soft Cap Removed

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Legendary Item Soft Cap Removed
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker
/ Official Forums
)
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Let's talk a bit about legendaries.

From the beginning of Legion, we've deliberately been pretty tight-lipped about how obtaining them works, because the best thing you can do to get them really does just boil down to "play the game and do the max-level activities you enjoy most." It was meant to be a background universal reward that would occasionally offer a surge of power to complement the transparent and omnipresent Artifact and normal itemization systems. Obviously, as we sit here reading posts speculating whether it's better to delete unwanted legendaries to improve your chances of getting more, there's a lesson for us to learn from how that approach has played out. (PS: Don't delete your legendaries. The system looks at what you've gotten, not what you have.)

We've also been pretty conservative in our design, with the intent of loosening the reins as time went on. With a system of this scale that spans all max-level activities, we couldn't be certain that we'd tuned it correctly based on data from thousands of people playing our beta for a few hours a week; it'd inevitably be different in the live game with millions of people playing in far more focused ways. And we knew that if we erred on the side of legendaries being too common, we could easily end up in a situation where some people (whether lucky people, or those who played the most) were flooded with them. If that happened, it'd have been a mess - a chunk of the playerbase would've had bags full of legendary items and no more to look forward to for months to come, and if we'd tried to "fix" it after the fact, then everyone who hadn't taken advantage of the generous period would have felt forever behind.

So we started out stingy, since if we erred in that direction it would be far more fixable. (We've since increased legendary drop rates in general, in patch 7.1). We also put some measures in place to reduce the gap between the very luckiest player and the unluckiest player. Luck is inevitably a factor in games like this, but with millions of people playing the game, if we allowed pure randomness to go unchecked, there would inevitably be some players who played hours every week and literally never saw a single legendary item. Thus, the so-called "bad luck protection" that improves your chances a bit each time you could have gotten a legendary but failed to do so.

As its name suggests, the "bad luck protection" system exists to protect the unluckiest players from the cruel fate of the dice. Those who were on the other end of the spectrum in terms of good fortune, we figured, didn't need a system to help put them even farther ahead of the rest of the world. And we drew that line at 4 legendaries, initially, planning to raise it as time went on. Once you'd gotten 4, you could absolutely get more, but the invisible hand of "bad luck protection" would no longer help you. Almost by definition, if you had 4 legendaries in, say, early October, you were super-lucky. You didn't need help getting more.

What we genuinely did not anticipate was just how much some of the very most dedicated players would play, mainly in pursuit of Artifact Power. By mid-November, we started to hear questions about whether there was some sort of 4-legendary limit, and we realized that there existed a group of players that had done so much content that they actually had an expected legendary count of around 4. They hadn't needed to be unusually lucky to get there. (Note that this is a very small group. They're overrepresented in these discussions, because this issue concerns them, but we're talking about hundreds of people out of millions.)

So we removed that soft cap just over a week ago. "Bad luck protection" now applies indefinitely. Most of the players in this category have probably been focusing on Mythic Trial of Valor for the past week, and since wiping repeatedly to raid bosses during progress sadly can't award legendaries, they haven't had a chance to see the effects of the change just yet. If/when some players get to a point when they have every legendary available for their spec, then so be it. They certainly will have earned it, and there will be more coming in future patches. The Unique-Equipped limit keeps the power gap between the haves and have-nots reasonable, and we'll continue to adjust the effectiveness of the outlier legendaries (coming up in patch 7.1.5) with the goal of keeping them exciting but not gamebreaking.

Continue reading...
 
Fcuk you Blizzard. There are literally MILLIONS of Players with not one single Legendary on any of their 110's and now those who already have 4 are going to end up with bags full of them, awesome choice.
I agree. One reason I stopped playing endgame. Everyone around me literally was getting 895 drops but me.
 
It is all a matter of persistence and patience to get a certain item to drop.
Absolutely false. That's not how RNG works. You have the same bullshit chance to get a Legendary (or not) from any Activity you do. Doing MORE of said Activity does NOT increase your chance to get a Legendary. You could walk up and tag any random Mob that other Players nearly have dead and get a Legendary. On the same token, you could clear the map of World Quests daily, run your Raids/Mythics weekly, grind until you want to stab puppies to see color and STILL never see a single Legendary drop. RNG for Gear has no business being in a Competitive Game.

EDIT: This is no different than the Glaives. There are Players who have been farming BT weekly on w/e Character they want both Glaives on since TBC was current and only have 1 of the 2. While those very same Players might know dozens of ppl and even a few DH who have both. You simply cannot sit there and say those who farm BT weekly for YEARS aren't putting in the effort or being patient while those who started a DH barely 2 months ago got "lucky" and have both pcs. RNG is a seriously fucked up system for Gear drops, period.
 
Fcuk you Blizzard. There are literally MILLIONS of Players with not one single Legendary on any of their 110's and now those who already have 4 are going to end up with bags full of them, awesome choice.
Ahahaha, you're pathetic, to start with you can only equip 2 at a time, but you want a scenario where if someone gets 4 bad ones, tough shit, they can never get a good one, ever, and will forever be behind a player with 2 good ones, unless they make a new character.
 
Absolutely false. That's not how RNG works. You have the same bullshit chance to get a Legendary (or not) from any Activity you do. Doing MORE of said Activity does NOT increase your chance to get a Legendary. You could walk up and tag any random Mob that other Players nearly have dead and get a Legendary. On the same token, you could clear the map of World Quests daily, run your Raids/Mythics weekly, grind until you want to stab puppies to see color and STILL never see a single Legendary drop. RNG for Gear has no business being in a Competitive Game.

EDIT: This is no different than the Glaives. There are Players who have been farming BT weekly on w/e Character they want both Glaives on since TBC was current and only have 1 of the 2. While those very same Players might know dozens of ppl and even a few DH who have both. You simply cannot sit there and say those who farm BT weekly for YEARS aren't putting in the effort or being patient while those who started a DH barely 2 months ago got "lucky" and have both pcs. RNG is a seriously fucked up system for Gear drops, period.
Another example of you being retarded, there is bad luck protection for legendaries
 
Absolutely false. That's not how RNG works. You have the same bullshit chance to get a Legendary (or not) from any Activity you do. Doing MORE of said Activity does NOT increase your chance to get a Legendary.
??????????????????
Have you not read anything blizzard has posted about legendaries since pre-launch? Have you not read the OP of this very thread? I don't understand...
 
Doing MORE of said Activity does NOT increase your chance to get a Legendary.
it does increase your overall chance if you have more rolls.
Does not mean it will be easier or faster to get.
Quantity is the only true thing which can bring down rngesus.
 
That is exactly how it works.
This is different than other legendary drops. Those other legendary drops are not part of the "bad luck protection" table.

??????????????????
Have you not read anything blizzard has posted about legendaries since pre-launch? Have you not read the OP of this very thread? I don't understand...
Let me attempt to explain why you're still wrong @Allybeboba and why you are confused @Onlydreams as simple as I can. My comment on how RNG works is 100% accurate. Whether you loot the same NPC once or 1000 times, each and every single time you do so you have the exact same luck % to get the super rare item you want to drop. While in Legion there's "bad luck protection" (that certainly isn't working like Blizzard wants it to due to how many millions there are without a single Legendary compared to those with 4) that doesn't change the fact that it's based off of a terrible drop system to begin with, i.e. luck of the draw.

My comparison to the Glaives is also 100% accurate in defining how terrible an RNG system is, regardless of whatever added mechanic is implemented to help the unlucky play catch up. RNG rewards only the lucky, it does not reward time, patience, hard work, skill, desire, aptitude, etc, ONLY the lucky. Some people are cancerously unlucky while others have more luck than entire Guilds of Players.

Blizzards choice to remove the "cap" at 4 Legendaries in the regards of no longer shutting off the "bad luck protection" on those Players means that those who still don't have any Legendaries may continue to still not have any (they mentioned nothing about increasing drop chance of unlucky folks) while those super lucky Players with 4 already might end up with a bag full of them.
 
To push my point further I'll give a relevant example.

Player A: Plays 8-10 hours per day, 6 days per week. They're on the main Progression Raid team. They clear the Map daily of WQ. This Player does HOURS of Mythic + clears weekly and is one of the best DPS/Healers/Tanks in their Guild but has zero Legion Legendaries.

Player B: Plays 2-3 hours per week. This person only likes to do Archeology and Crafting and if they even step foot in a Raid it's LFR now and again. They hardly do any Dungeons and certainly not Mythics and only really care about WQ when it pertains to Crafting. While out one day doing some Archeo a random mob attacks them and they kill/loot that mob and bam, they get the BiS Legendary Ring for this or that Class.

Player A is CLEARLY more deserving of a Legendary but has terrible luck. Player B doesn't remotely deserve a Legendary but luck just gave them one. Explain exactly how this kind of RNG system is perfectly fine, because it happens every single day in WoW, even with Legion's "bad luck protection". And to remove the "cap" from those who are super lucky with 4, only rewards their luck and further shafts those with shit luck, like Player A.
 
rng will never truly be equal. bad luck protection might make it maybe 1% more equal. just using made up numbers for example. lets say a legendary has a 0.01% base chance to drop from any mob. bad luck protection increases it by 0.00001% every kill. someone who play 3 hours a day and only does archeology might get 100 kills in a week, bringing his chance for a legendary to 0.011% every kill. someone who plays 12 hours a day and kills a lot of mobs through many different activities might get 10k kills in a week, giving him 0.11% chance for a legendary on his next kill. the 2nd person now has 10 times the chance to get a legendary compared to the first, but in absolute numbers, 0.11% is not that much different fron 0.011%
 
Let me attempt to explain why you're still wrong @Allybeboba and why you are confused @Onlydreams
I'm not confused. You stated the following:
You have the same bullshit chance to get a Legendary (or not) from any Activity you do. Doing MORE of said Activity does NOT increase your chance to get a Legendary.
Which is completely false. It WAS true if you already had 4 legendaries prior to the hotfix that this thread is talking about. But now your statement is false 100% of the time no matter how many legendaries you have.
 
They need to go back to having legendary weapons that only certain classes can use IMO. If they wanted to re-capture that epic world drop system from vanilla like they said, then they can just put in cool epic quality gear with these sorts of passives. Every legendary that was implemented before 5.0 was way cooler than the gems, cloaks, rings and bullshit legendaries we have now. They didn't need to have legendaries that everybody could obtain during their peak in wrath and they don't need them now. I sincerely hope they won't continue with their "everybody gets a trophy" mentality when they remove these legendaries to work on the ones for the next expansion.
 
I have done so many world quests / raid bosses / emissary quests and have gotten two since launch. One from Eye boss in EN and the other from Warden's Cache (World Quest Emissary reward cache).
However I've been around people that are swimming in them, one guy on his DH got 3 in the first month of launch. Another got two back to back bosses in EN after having none drop prior. I remember a flood of legendaries dropping for one week about a month ago (when I got my 2nd) when I assume they put in the patch of "luck".
 
The issue with that is that the player base bitched about not getting a legendary item for their class. Or that getting a legendary item took too long and was arduous.
You must remember, many of the people that play come from the microwave generation. They want it NOW.
Unfortunately, for Blizzard, these same people want their items to be unique and different so they can stand out from the crowd. They don't like to be homogenized. This puts Blizzard in a very difficult position.

/cheers
Dragon wrath, fangs of the father, shadowmourne, all took less time than the cloaks or the rings. This microwave generation you speak of, isn't the only generation playing the game. An entire generation of diverse expectations and not just "I want it now" is what we've always had for any generation. Quicker may not always be better, but I think all generations can agree that they'd rather have most things sooner than later. This "tough spot" Blizzard apparently feels they are in is not solved by ruining what makes a legendary feel legendary and some orange piece of gear from a box with no story behind it and no real reason to be in that box does not feel legendary. If Blizzard were to remove the legendary weapons currently obtainable at the end of this expansion, they'd receive a lot of backlash for doing so. If they removed the Legion legendaries, almost nobody would care. I think this speaks volumes about the value a legendary weapon steeped in lore, with an interesting and engaging experience tied to it along with being visually impressive can bring to the game.
 
The three you spoke of could not be gotten alone, they required guild help.
Near the end of the expansion the cloak's quest was accelerated as was the ring. Those could be PuGed in LFR.
I suppose I'll read between the lines here and assume the point that you're trying to make is that the legendary weapons I listed were less accessible to casuals than the legendaries of MoP, WoD and Legion.

We also didn't have the group finder tool back then. Raid finder only came out during dragon soul and fangs weren't available from LFR. I don't think there would be anything wrong with a new legendary weapon obtainable through LFR if we have to keep LFR in the game; however, I'm also of the opinion that we should get rid of LFR and just use the group finder tool for PUG raids.
 

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