Is This The Dawn Of A Cultural Shift?
- Thread starter Kincaide
- Start date
Srs
Legend
The BiS Gift of _____ enchants for neck, ring, and back are really expensive. Like 4-6k per, as they are the BiS enchants for endgame also. If you've got unbound BoE items, or extra minipets, that might be a good source for cash. You could start farming those now, and sell them later.
Ofc, I don't really see how this is going to be any different than being a p2p currently. If the jajas don't catch on, they'll still be stuck at current f2p levels, and we'll all just be on the other side of the fence if we all gear up. Honestly, I don't see too many people putting in the time to get p2p BiS in one month, starting from scratch. It takes money to make money, and you're looking at about 20k or so to get p2p BiS, not even counting BoAs. It's an uphill battle when you don't have any money to start with.
That kind of money is a real investment, and I just don't think it's worth it, just to lord over the jajas. I made a BiS 29, and it wasn't fun. I'm just not used to not having to try at pvp. Of course, if enough people get geared, then that won't really be a valid reason not to go p2p in the 20-29 bracket, but I think I'm just going to see how the tide is going, before I put in any effort in to doomsday prepping for this bracket to go p2p.
This is coming from someone that has an ongoing subscription for some time, and has had the option of playing with advantages in this bracket, and I'm of the opinion that f2p is more fun in its current state, where most people are on a level playing field, with a few random jerks crutching on gear. Once you lose your f2p virginity, you can never have it back. Withholding judgement, I'd advise everyone to think about the implications of going p2p, and the effect it will have on the bracket. It may turn out to be a great thing for the bracket, but before you put a ton of time and effort into upgrading your toons, think about what you are trying to achieve.
To be honest, I'm thinking we should just take this party to 19s, and leave the new wave of 29 trolls to wallow in their own filth.
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OP
OP
Kincaide
Legend
You know, that's not exactly true, anyway. Now that we can make our own BoAs at will, it's not too hard to have one gear set that is true-BIS for when you're in a BG with 29s or when you're dueling or arena'ing with other people who are true-BIS, and have another gear set that's true-F2P for when the majority of whatever activity you're doing haven't upgraded. This isn't a "you can never go back" scenario. True it may be a "you won't want to go back" scenario, but that's a different matter.
It's just odd to me, how for years we have wanted to close the gap as much as possible with the people at the top of our bracket, and now we have in rapid succession been given so many ways to do exactly that--first with scaling gear, then with the BoA tab, and now with the ability to match them enchant per enchant--this is a dream come true unheard-of fantasy outcome for F2Ps, and yet some people have a moral compunction against spending five dollars, because (as far as I can tell) they're afraid that others are also going to have a moral compunction against spending five dollars. Why don't instead we just agree as a community that we're all going to do it and then no one has to be afraid that they're the only one who's going to do it and then they look like the asshole?
I'm just a bit confused at the moral hand-wringing going on, people feariing that they're somehow going to be taking advantage... of people who can just as easily take advantage of -you-, if you -don't- follow suit. Let's do try to keep in mind that "the real enemy" (and I couldn't even write that without quotes of facetiousness) is the people at the top of the bracket... people who we are now in a better position to be able to match than we ever have before. I kind of feel lt would be silly to have wanted this for so long, and now that it's within reach, to be timid about grabbing it.
Iorek
Grandfathered
It is not a moral issue against spending 5 dollars. These are the different options:
1. 29s P2P.
2. F2Ps that once were P2P and they have high level frozen characters: They pay 5 dollars and get enchants relatively easily (for many F2Ps and maybe 19 toons) + Guild Looms
3. Never-paid F2Ps without >20 characters that will pay 5 dollar and play 720 hours in 1 month to get as many enchants as possible for 1 or a few characters.
Pay + Time Spent / Huge Effort (things that F2P players lack compared to standard high end P2P) -> PROBABLY FEW PLAYERS WOULD DO THIS
4. Never-paid F2Ps that will stay in their current state cause they don't see fun in OPTION 3, getting bored of the game if the bracket has a big amount of 29s and Upgraded 20s, quitting and doing something else.
5. Moral Players that won't spend 1 cent in a game (the problem is not the amount of money) or just won't pay again to Blizzard. They will follow OPTION 4 path.
6. Option 2 (Old P2Ps) that would get the enchants and guild looms and don't use them if standard F2Ps remain a big portion of the bracket, looking for challenge and equality.
We still don't know the amount of players that will take each option but one thing is for sure: these changes would create further division in the bracket.
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OP
OP
Kincaide
Legend
All good and valid points, and listen, I'm not at all saying that the position for not upgrading is indefensible. I totally understand and respect if someone chooses that path. What I'm having an issue with at the moment is the logical construct used to shun and emotionally dissuade those who take the counter position and think that upgrading can actually benefit the community by putting us on near equal footing with the 29 P2Ps.
Edit: Actually I came to this thread through following my notifications and realize now that this isn't the thread where I was debating the above point with Bop, so without that context my reply may seem out of place. But I'll leave it anyhow.
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Srs
Legend
I'm not really saying that it's a moral issue, I'm just saying that everyone is going to have to make a conscious decision about what they are going to do. I hope that everyone thinks out the possible implications of their decision. Of course, that is probably asking too much because most people don't do that IRL.
A lively discussion on TI, will have some impact on the bracket, but that will only have an impact on a certain amount of players. The bracket will no longer just 20 f2p vs. 29 p2p (and the randoms that twink at some other level, god knows why). I think a good number of people will choose that third path, and I will not hold it against them, But my two-cents are, coming from one who has had an active account for awhile, has had the advantages paid for and available and who has made a 29: I have more fun on my f2ps in the 20s bracket.
Of course, that could all change. If the majority of the players go p2p, then it will really be just another bracket. It might even get more competitive. We'll just have to see what the majority of the players do. However, my above comment about the jajas was only half in jest: if it comes down to the p2p North Americans vs. the f2p Latin Americans, I might not feel good playing this bracket. But that scenario is mere conjecture at this point, so we'll see how it shakes out. Maybe they'll pony up the dough too, and it will all work out.
Regarding my "virginty" line. I originally wrote that as "a deal with the devil", but then thought about it. I realized that the connotation that I wanted to express wasn't really that of an irrevocable sell-your-soul type deal—one where you made a bad decision and are forced to pay for your sins type thing. I changed it to virginity because the loss of virginity doesn't necessarily mean a fall from grace (though to some it does), but it is a change you can't go back on. And once on the other side, your virgin days are a bygone era, that perhaps bring forth thoughts of wistful nostalgia (also, maybe not for some). I just want people, when they talk about what they are going to do when this all hits the fan, to think about what they are giving up in exchange.
Change is coming, a hard rain is going to fall. And I can't help feeling like, in awhile, we'll all be talking about the days of milk and honey, back in cata, when f2p were pure and we fought gloriously, against all odds, to slay the evil hordes of pay to wins.
nanatan
Legend
There are several ways to fund your 4x Gift of... enchants for your toons.
Seeing as you get MoP by just buying the base game for 5$, you can easily just level a toon to 90 (which doesn't take that long, especially with RAF), grab a potion of luck or five and go grind guo'lai or any other place, you can easily get atleast 10k in one day by grinding anything.
Or you could just hop onto your local chinese goldseller site and buy that 10k or whatever you need, I heard the gold is dirt cheap currently.
Seeing as you get MoP by just buying the base game for 5$, you can easily just level a toon to 90 (which doesn't take that long, especially with RAF), grab a potion of luck or five and go grind guo'lai or any other place, you can easily get atleast 10k in one day by grinding anything.
Or you could just hop onto your local chinese goldseller site and buy that 10k or whatever you need, I heard the gold is dirt cheap currently.