EU+US Is there any reason to twink 29 anymore?

[Zirano]

That has nothing to do with this but fine lets talk about this other completly different topic...

The only healers currently doing too much damage is rsham, hpriest and rdruid. Only rsham is way too high.

WHAT?! 7 healers isnt a viable comp!? I am sorry, I will restrain myself from using hyperbole in the future.

Surely you're trolling. disc, mw, rsham, hpriest, do similar dmg to decent dps specs. but even hpally, rdruid and the likes still deal good dmg. In general healers are much stronger than pure dps specs in this bracket.

Edit: also my main point wasnt even the fact that you mentioned 7 healers. but in a bg it's not relevant if a dps can 1v1 a healer or not because there are so many other factors. the logic that a dps can't kill a healer in a 1v1 doesnt really fit into the lower level twink brackets, but sure that logic works at higher levels / max level.

 

[Goesid]

Surely you're trolling. disc, mw, rsham, hpriest, do similar dmg to decent dps specs. but even hpally, rdruid and the likes still deal good dmg. In general healers are much stronger than pure dps specs in this bracket.

Disc dmg is pretty much where it should be, could even take a small buff. mw maybe but seems to be in a pretty good place.

The only healer that is able to be a few dps specs is rsham.

 

[Zirano]

Disc dmg is pretty much where it should be, could even take a small buff. mw maybe but seems to be in a pretty good place.

The only healer that is able to be a few dps specs is rsham.

So it's okay for healers to do on par dmg with dps specs, but dps specs shouldent be able to kill healers in 1v1? That doesnt seem right now does it.

 

[Goesid]

So it's okay for healers to do on par dmg with dps specs, but dps specs shouldent be able to kill healers in 1v1? That doesnt seem right now does it.

Are you parents related? Where did fuck did you pull that from? jesus christ...

Rsham dps needs to be nerfed.
If you are struggling to keep up with any of the other healer spec, as a dps, you suck balls. That is not to say rdruid and hpriest couldnt use a nerf aswell but thats beside the point.

 

[Zirano]

Are you parents related? Where did fuck did you pull that from? jesus christ...

Rsham dps needs to be nerfed.
If you are struggling to keep up with any of the other healer spec, you suck balls.

Do you actually have downs or some shit? I've never said that healers do more dmg than dps. but most healer specs can do maybe 50-70 % of the average dps spec. but they are almost impossible to kill unless you cordinate cc or you're a fury warrior.

If anything you're being a spastic applying higher/max level logic to a twink bracket and say "a healer shouldent die 1v1 to any dps" It's ignorant

 

[Goesid]

Do you actually have downs or some shit? I've never said that healers do more dmg than dps. but most healer specs can do maybe 50-70 % of the average dps spec. but they are almost impossible to kill unless you cordinate cc or you're a fury warrior.

If anything you're being a spastic applying higher/max level logic to a twink bracket and say "a healer shouldent die 1v1 to any dps" It's ignorant

healers to do on par dmg with dps specs

Look, look at this shit.

Healers shouldnt die to a dps 1v1. I stand by that. If you think a dps should be able to 1v1 a healer. Max level logic rofl. Whenever I think you guys are running out of arguments you pull something even stupider out of that hat lol. "How dare you use logic!" "Logic has no place in the 29 bracket!"

 

[Zirano]

Look, look at this shit.

Healers shouldnt die to a dps 1v1. I stand by that. If you think a dps should be able to 1v1 a healer. Max level logic rofl. Whenever I think you guys are running out of arguments you pull something even stupider out of that hat lol. "How dare you use logic!" "Logic has no place in the 29 bracket!"

No my point is that yes it makes sense that a healer can't die 1v1 to a dps at max level, because at max level the healers don't do 70 % of the dmg that a dps do.
[doublepost=1552833610,1552833344][/doublepost]

Look, look at this shit.

Healers shouldnt die to a dps 1v1. I stand by that. If you think a dps should be able to 1v1 a healer. Max level logic rofl. Whenever I think you guys are running out of arguments you pull something even stupider out of that hat lol. "How dare you use logic!" "Logic has no place in the 29 bracket!"

And I've never said not to use logic, but applying concepts/logic that works at max level to a low level bracket just doesnt work. this is because the game is not balanced around this level and it will always be very volatile. That's how twinking is and it's how it's always been.

 

[Goesid]

No my point is that yes it makes sense that a healer can't die 1v1 to a dps at max level, because at max level the healers don't do 70 % of the dmg that a dps do.

Disc damage is stronger at end game then at this level but sure. Resto shaman and mw damage are just as overtuned at max level as they are at this level but if you want to invent problems and solutions.

And I've never said not to use logic, but applying concepts/logic that works at max level to a low level bracket just doesnt work. this is because the game is not balanced around this level and it will always be very volatile. That's how twinking is and it's how it's always been.

I mean, its not a max level concept though. That is kinda the point.

 

[Chops]

Once again chops you’ve admitted to being a “meh” fury warrior and you stated you “hardly play”

Even a mediocre fury warrior who plays a few BGs a week knows you shouldn't be trying to 1v1 a healer in a BG.

Must feel bad to play so much more than I do and still not have that figured out

 

[Zirano]

Disc damage is stronger at end game then at this level but sure. Resto shaman and mw damage are just as overtuned at max level as they are at this level but if you want to invent problems and solutions.



I mean, its not a max level concept though. That is kinda the point.

But the game is not balanced around 20-29, it's balanced around max level. So how can we try to apply concepts like this when the bracket is clearly unbalanced. And don't get me wrong, i'm all for balance but the 20-29 bracket is not even close to balanced.

And also no, no healer at max level can keep up 70 % of a dps' dmg. yes sure a monk can match it while crane is up, and disc can do decent dmg but nowhere near the same % as in the 20-29 bracket lol.

 

[Dimitri]

Yesterday i was making couple wargames with bunch of 29s, if we can get more 29s into this we coule make every Day like 10v10 wsg or gilneas.
[doublepost=1552835898,1552835794][/doublepost]Real problem with pugs is that most of the time People Just afks or stops Qing after a loss if 1 Q pops we should be getting back to back games.

 

[Dragpz]

So it's okay for healers to do on par dmg with dps specs, but dps specs shouldent be able to kill healers in 1v1? That doesnt seem right now does it.

I think your first mistake is pretending that Blizz cares about balancing lower level pvp brackets. I mean, Surv hunters were broken in the 19's and 29's bracket for so freaking long and they didn't even care. Pre Patch - Legion, classes were actually balanced, and then they just ruined everything after launch.

 

[Goesid]

But the game is not balanced around 20-29, it's balanced around max level. So how can we try to apply concepts like this when the bracket is clearly unbalanced. And don't get me wrong, i'm all for balance but the 20-29 bracket is not even close to balanced.

And also no, no healer at max level can keep up 70 % of a dps' dmg. yes sure a monk can match it while crane is up, and disc can do decent dmg but nowhere near the same % as in the 20-29 bracket lol.

Thats the thing, its not a max level concept, its a fundamental part of the fking game. To think otherwise is downright retarded. Max level is rarely balanced either, who gives a shit. Fundamentals in place it will still hold up.

I did a few games for you. Damage would probably be higher if ally could win games or if I had disc traits but anyway here is discs current damage at max level.

I think it qualifies for 50-70%. Any thoughts or are you gonna keep pulling shit out of your ass?

 

[Faerondil]

Did you just randomly select my post to reply to, where did I mention Blizz going back on their decision to separate?

I think he misread your post where you were talking about thinking Blizz will put f2p and Vets into the XP-off queues.

 

[Zirano]

Thats the thing, its not a max level concept, its a fundamental part of the fking game. To think otherwise is downright retarded. Max level is rarely balanced either, who gives a shit. Fundamentals in place it will still hold up.

I did a few games for you. Damage would probably be higher if ally could win games or if I had disc traits but anyway here is discs current damage at max level.

View attachment 10786

I think it qualifies for 50-70%. Any thoughts or are you gonna keep pulling shit out of your ass?

Okay so you managed to do decent dmg in random bg's with probably a bunch of undergeared people. and this accounts for the one spec that actually does dmg to heal. and yeah you could say that healers being able to live 1v1 is a fundamental, but then it's also a fundamental that dps should deal significantly more damage than healers as well. which is not the case in this bracket. and that's my exact point, you can't expect fundamental ideas to work in a part of the game that the developers have abandonend.

 

[Goesid]

Okay so you managed to do decent dmg in random bg's with probably a bunch of undergeared people. and this accounts for the one spec that actually does dmg to heal.

Some probably were but most have decent gear, I said disc specifically and so did you. Dont try to backpeddle on that now because I threw it in your face. Discs damage has been like this at endgame throughout the expansion gear or not. Anybody that has actually played endgame can attest to that.

yeah you could say that healers being able to live 1v1 is a fundamental

Finally were making some fkin progress

but then it's also a fundamental that dps should deal significantly more damage than healers as well.

No it isn't, you cant just toss in, this is also because that would strenghten your argument when it isnt the case. Yes the game would be better if a few healer specs dealt less damage, but the games entire pvp system isnt dependant on it, especially when there is only one or two specs that are far too strong, one of which has a toolkit making alot of rerolls stay away from it.

and that's my exact point, you can't expect fundamental ideas to work in a part of the game that the developers have abandonend.

It doesnt matter though. The house leaks from the top down. If the fundamentals hold at the top, even if we are only accidentally affected by the changes in the game they are still here.

 

[Zirano]

Some probably were but most have decent gear, I said disc specifically and so did you. Dont try to backpeddle on that now because I threw it in your face. Discs damage has been like this at endgame throughout the expansion gear or not. Anybody that has actually played endgame can attest to that.



Finally were making some fkin progress



No it isn't, you cant just toss in, this is also because that would strenghten your argument when it isnt the case. Yes the game would be better if a few healer specs dealt less damage, but the games entire pvp system isnt dependant on it, especially when there is only one or two specs that are far too strong, one of which has a toolkit making alot of rerolls stay away from it.



It doesnt matter though. The house leaks from the top down. If the fundamentals hold at the top, even if we are only accidentally affected by the changes in the game they are still here.

Okay i can agree with maybe that it isnt fundemental that they deal less damage, but in a bracket which such bad balance I don't understand why you would be suprised when soemthing that is considered fundemental doesnt work.

And no I didnt go back on it, I said you've accounted for disc. But that still doesnt change my opinion on that healer specs still do more damage than what I'd consider normal in this bracket.

 

[Goesid]

Okay i can agree with maybe that it isnt fundemental that they deal less damage

Great, thanks for conceding that stupid idea.

but in a bracket which such bad balance I don't understand why you would be suprised when soemthing that is considered fundemental doesnt work.

It does work fine when the 29s arent around. And ive never said I was suprised, I mean ive said 24s or 29s are they probably for like 8 years now, how the fk am I suprised lol.

And no I didnt go back on it, I said you've accounted for disc. But that still doesnt change my opinion on that healer specs still do more damage than what I'd consider normal in this bracket.

Great. Thank you so we agree on that too now.

 

[Faerondil]

but then it's also a fundamental that dps should deal significantly more damage than healers as well.

No it isn't

Goesid, I agree with you on everything you’re saying but this. If DPS specs don’t deal significantly more damage than healers, then what would be the point of even having DPS?

 

[Katsudon]

What he is saying is this:

YOU ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO 1V1 A HEALER.
Jesus christ, if a healer can be 1v1d all of pvp grinds to a halt and withers away. There is a reason you want 3-4 healers out of 10 and not 7, the idea that you dont 1v1 a healer you actually have to work togheter and use some cc.

Yikes, and you guys wonder why we think so little of 29s. Well, right there, this guy.

Unfortunately you can’t read too which is getting sad and I don’t know if you’re doing it on purpose or if you can’t understand English and it isn’t your first language... Like I stated before and please read posts before you comment, you can’t properly “1v1” a healer as in (you) a lvl 20 fury vs a bis healer it’s that plain and simple a 1v1 I’m not talking about team fights. I mean it’s pretty obvious you need teamwork to take down a healer, but I think a majority of twinks know this already? I don’t understand how you think a 1v1 translates to a team fight?