Information database and Ask Trespasser

[Trespasser]

Sentinel or impish for sub with shadowfang OH

Hey Trespasser! Sorry to suddenly budge in here I haven't been on in a while too busy with school and other crap, but I plan to start semisoon, possibly when cata comes out. So quick question, I'm assuming I'ma stick with subtley im not quite sure but I was reading above, I DO have a shadowfang, so your saying with a shadowfang the best Sub setup is MH sentinels and OH shadowfang? or MH impish, cause you were saying until you get shadowfang impish + sentinals was best setup ^^. And also, I've read your hit post quite interested, but if I were to try out combat I only have 1 shadowfang, so is combat not a very viable spec without 2 shadowfangs (I'd perfer not goin combat if SFx2 is BiS)?

For a sub spec with Shadowfang OH a Impish blade will be better then a Sentinal blade for MH. This is because the hit rating is more valueable then the 1 additional agility and slightly higher dps.

For combat SF is BiS but the dps difference by using a different weapon as your OH isn't to big. For example with using wingblade as OH you would lose 1 agility and the shadowfang proc for your offhand (about 0.8procs per minute with 18hit rating). So as you can see the dps difference would be very small and as such combat is still just as viable without a second shadowfang.

 

[Trespasser]

legionnaires band or simple pearl ring

Thanks for the help! I read your cmb thread and you point to expertise being very good for cmb but not for backstab. What does expertise even do and why is this?

Also: legionnaires band or simple pearl ring (if capped)?

Even when already soft hit capped the Simple pearl ring will provide a higher overall damage increase.

1hit rating is worth 1,901 agility so the 4 hit is the same as 7.604agility

1agility is worth obviously 1 agility and 1 strength is worth 0,412agility. For a total of 4.648agility.

As you can see the simple pearl ring is more valuable then the legionnaires band even when already hit capped



As for the explanation or expertise just wait a bit until I post it (maybe today maybe tomorrow)

 

[roguedubb]

Probably irrelevant since wand specs got nerfed a long while back, but I feel compelled to point out that Agility does provide some benefit to wand users, in the form of extra Crit which is applied to wand attacks. Anywho, just putting it out there in the name of information, love your work Trespasser.

 

[Trespasser]

Confirmed this with the armory of my mage added it as a small note in the agility part regarding crit from agility. Thank you roguedubb.

 

[Lawlpurge]

Trespasser is God.

 

[Trespasser]

Expertise

Expertise lowers the chance for your melee attacks to be dodged or parried.

Currently 1 expertise rating grants 2 points of expertise. (there are no decimal numbers because expertise works only in integrals)

Every point of expertise lowers you chance to be dodged and parried by 0.25%. (spells and ranged attacks can't be dodged and parried and as such expertise is useless for casters and hunters)



If you would for example use foreman's gloves you get 5 expertise rating.

This results in getting 10 expertise so a 2.5% lower chance to be dodged and parried.



If you attack a mage with 6% dodge for example and you use a pair of foreman's gloves the chance to be dodged is only 3.5%.

When attacking a rogue with 40% dodge and 5% parry while using a pair of foreman's gloves the chance to be dodge is reduced to 37.5% and parry to 2.5%.



So it is visible that expertise is worth twice as much against a class that can also parry. The classes that have the ability are listed at the bottom of this post.



However a important thing to consider when looking at expertise is that it is impossible for a player to dodge and parry attacks that are made from behind. So when attacking from behind a target from behind the value of expertise becomes zero. As such when using a attack like backstab expertise is not needed however for attacks like gouge which can only be done from the front it is extremely valuable.



It should be noted that when all attacks are made from the front the value of expertise is actually more that it's percentage. To explain that I will use the 2 examples from above.



Lets say do 100 attacks dealing 1 damage each against both that mage and rogue. (hit capped)

Without the foreman's gloves it means that on average 94 of that attacks will hit the mage dealing a total of 94 damage.

With the foreman's gloves it means that you will hit the mage 96.5 times on average dealing 96.5damage.

This is a increase of (( 96.5 / 94 ) - 1 ) * 100 = 2.66%

This means that in this case the 2.5% dodge reduction increased your damage done by 2.66%



Now lets look at the rogue.

Without the gloves you would hit the rogue 55times dealing 55damage.

With the gloves you would hit the 60 times dealing 60damage.

This is a increase of (( 60 / 55 ) - 1 ) * 100 = 9.09%

So the 2.5% dodge and parry reduction actually increased your damage by 9.09%



The real value of expertise is therefore actually dependant on the avoidance of the target you are attacking and the time you can stay behind the target. And the higher the avoidance of your target the more valuable expertise becomes and the more time you stay behind the target the less valuable it becomes.



Expertise also decreasing the incoming damage from melee enemy's with parry but that will be explained in the parry part of this database.



Classes with parry:

Paladins get parry at lvl 10

Hunters get parry at lvl 8

Warriors get parry at lvl 10

Rogues get parry at lvl 12

Shamans get parry if they choose enhancement though there dual wield specialization.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

A throwing weapon is required so I would chance that. (or make it a coice).

Trespasser, wich throwing would you recommend? are there new ones in cata or is it just the old 2 agi one from belf area?

 

[Curley]

Trespasser, wich throwing would you recommend? are there new ones in cata or is it just the old 2 agi one from belf area?

sludge caked throwing weapons

 

[Grunge]

Tres, im not sure how time-intensive this would be but if you had the time, could you possibly weigh out stat values for a Shadow Priest? It would make me a happy camper and i would reward you with cake :3

 

[l30t53dd6p]

sludge caked throwing weapons

Ok, i found them Sludge-Caked Throwing Knives

But what about Farstrider's Longbow?

 

[Grunge]

Ok, i found them Sludge-Caked Throwing Knives

But what about Farstrider's Longbow?

You use a thrownfor interupting bandages. In bgs bows and guns are acceptable.

 

[blado]

Is combat or subtlety better? Also if you don't have shadowfang or impish blade for offhand as subtlety what is the next best option? I'm alliance.

 

[Trespasser]

sludge caked throwing weapons

Actually I just started thinking. And agility is better then crit. (as you can see in the combat rating value thread)

Throat piercers gives 2 agility and sludge-caked gives 1 agi 1crit and 1 stam.

From a damage point of view that makes throat piercers actually better and the damage it does with throwing doesn't really matter.

Ofcourse the sludge-caked does give a additional 1 stam but especially for a premade you wouldn't want your dps to sacrifice damage for more health (there are a few exceptions of course like AGM vs BoA haste trinket).

 

[notoriousthf]

1hit rating is worth 1,901 agility

zomg, that's OP!!

 

[l30t53dd6p]

You use a thrownfor interupting bandages. In bgs bows and guns are acceptable.

Yes ofc and i understand but the speed is the same on the thrown and on the bow. Doesnt it make the bow superior then over the thrown when it has the same casting time, higher dps and better stats?

 

[Trespasser]

Yes ofc and i understand but the speed is the same on the thrown and on the bow. Doesnt it make the bow superior then over the thrown when it has the same casting time, higher dps and better stats?

The speed on a bow or throwing weapon is not the same as a melee weapon.

Is you use a throwing weapon the throw itself is 0.5sec and then you get a cooldown equal to the speed indicated by the throwing weapon.

In the case of a bow the shoot will take 1.5sec and then it will go on cooldown for the time indecated on the weapon. (this is different for a hunter with auto-shoot of course)



This means that a throwing weapon is always faster to interrupt a bandage.

 

[Trespasser]

zomg, that's OP!!

The use of . and , in numbers is different in Europe than in the US. They are actually the reverse.

To indicate one million in Europe we would use 1.000.000 while in the US they use 1,000,000

When meaning a one and a half we in Europe use 1,5 while in the US they use 1.5.

 

[Trespasser]

Is combat or subtlety better? Also if you don't have shadowfang or impish blade for offhand as subtlety what is the next best option? I'm alliance.

It is not so easy to say one is better then the other.

Subtlety has a higher time on target the a combat rogue because of waylay and stadowstep.

However a combat rogue has a higher dps while actually on the target then a subtlety rogue.



In order to say which one is better you would need to know how will you could stay on the target.

However a combat rogue will be better if you can make good friends with your neighbouring hunters, kitty druids or frost mage. Because they will the provide the slow that you need to stay on the target.

But a subtlety rogue will do better when alone because it has a high opener and has a way to stay on the target by itself.



As for OH weapon you will have to wait a bit. I was planning to do some things today but a power outage in the city caused my planning to disrupted so I am a bit busy currently.

 

[Curley]

worgen sub rogue ftw

 

[Trespasser]

Currently preparing to lvl to 85 so it might take some time before this gets updated again.

However when things have settled down at 85 and raiding starts going more smoothly I will start working on this again.

I will however still check here from time to time to answer possible questions when I have some free time.