hunters being sabotaged?
- Thread starter pallyallah
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troublesomesleeper
Veteran
Nah his argument is "hurrdurr bad hunters are easily countered hurrdurr". While disregarding the fact that "bad" surv hunters can still have an impact on the match. Leading to more and more "bad" surv getting bramble and doing the following macro in BGs;
/target
/cast faceroll
/use fireworks
Seen surv hunters ignore the core aspects of pvp; cooldown management, positioning, proper use of CC and utility. Sadly, that doesn't have an effect on the faceroll macro.
/target
/cast faceroll
/use fireworks
Seen surv hunters ignore the core aspects of pvp; cooldown management, positioning, proper use of CC and utility. Sadly, that doesn't have an effect on the faceroll macro.
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
Not sure if I stated my actual thoughts on topic yet, but healers should heal and if they don't they are bad players.
krose338
Veteran
I couldn't agree more, a healers main job is to heal and if they don't (for whatever reason) they're not helping the team, and yes they are bad. Being salty because someone plays a Hunter is just selfish and doesn't help out the team.
Greenmtnboy
Banned
Go back to goldshire and sit on the fence hoping someone comments on your run of the mill shit.
JadeFire
Worthless
I'll assume you main hunter.
Margooya
Grandfathered
I dont play a healer (not yet) but I think there should be some caveat in this statement.
I'd agree with the statement more or less, but, specially at this level, traditional healing specs can serve another purpose.
Resto druids can be good FCs, play with only that goal in mind, and not as a usual healer. Would healing a teammate while they do so help? sure, and I'm sure most do when they can, but I wouldnt grudge one for focusing solely on crossing mid as fast as they can to get the flag.
Resto shaman could be seen as a more sturdy version of elemental. Essentially, somebody that likes shaman, but wants to be very resilient. And resto shamans do put out decent dps, at least compared to elemental. Plus they could run the flag as well.
A similar argument could be made about holy paladin maybe. Not sure I never played a holy paladin, but from what I gather they can put out decent dps as well. Some players might want to do a range dps kind of build, more power to them.
And dont get me wrong, my main at 50 was an elemental shaman, and I LOVE the hybrid aspect of the class. So anybody in range get some free heals when I can. Healing Wave for you, for you, for you, chain heal and healing totem for everybody!!! But still, specially at 20, the label of "healer" doesnt exactly mean that player is a healer. And it certainly doesnt mean anybody is entitled to their heals, even if it'd be nice.
Merlin
Grandfathered
Same, especially in 10-19 bg, I don't play my resto sham and druids as healers, because they deal larger dmg and use fewer mana than their respective dps spec.. But I will inform the whole team before the bg start that I am going dps.. But I do still heal others when the need arises.. In other bg brackets, even my ret pally has to do mini heal at critical times
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
Take the statement in the context of the thread. People are specifically not healing. That is dumb and bad and makes them bad players to recognize when a heal would be helpful and efficient use of time and choose to not be helpful and efficient. This isn't a discussion of every role any spec can play in a game it was about intentional trolling.
accel
Member
Thanks for the reply.
The above is wrong. Having one more CD is more valuable to someone who has less CDs, not to someone who has more.
I don't quite get how you intended to demonstrate the reverse with your example of $500 to someone who is behind on rent vs someone who isn't, you say that someone who isn't behind on rent gets more value out of $500, but it's strictly the other way around. OK, the guy who isn't behind on rent spends $500 on Disney world. That's great, but that's much less important than stopping to be behind on rent which is what the first guy does. Not getting to Disney world is less impactful than getting kicked out into the street. The guy who is behind on rent gets more value out of $500.
It's the same with specs and cooldowns. When you have N CDs, how are you using them? You are spending them on the most important stuff, survival. Then you worry about helping others survive, and about killing. Then maybe about styling while killing. You follow priorities. If one guy has 5 CDs and the other guy has 8 (we are generalizing here and assuming all cds are equal, this is not important because if cds are unequal we can always adjust their weights), the first guy fails to cover bigger priorities than the second guy. So, when you add one more CD to both of them, the first guy gets more value out of it.
This is pretty basic.
This is exactly why stuff in professions available to everyone works to reduce the differences and smooth out the imbalances. If they put more stuff in professions, the impact of surv will be smaller, not greater. This is exactly why when spec A hopelessly outmatches spec B adding a healer (or a dps, does not matter) to each side does the same.
You are wrong here, sorry.
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That's just your theories. In reality, the argument in the thread is "I am losing to all hunters, including idiot ones, in 100% of the cases bla bla bla, the spec must be idiot proof, send help". Which is a vast exaggeration. Hunters are OP, but if you are losing to an idiot hunter, learn to play.
[doublepost=1622015184][/doublepost]
Correct, my argument is that bad hunters are easily countered. You can add "hurrdurr" if you want. Yes, bad surv hunters have more impact than bad non-hunters. Yes, since the spec is OP, there is a stream of bad surv hunters coming. But since they are bad, they are easily countered. And if their numbers grow dangerously high for that, you get a premade and counter them with a premade. You can counter a full bg of bad surv hunters with a 5-man, easily. (Half of them will chicken out or stay afk in the base right after losing the first fight, ironically enough for this thread.)
You should be worried about good hunters. Their numbers also grow.
pallyallah
Veteran
actually as the guy who made the thread it wasn't about 'intentional trolling' it was about raising awareness of the brave few (though now growing in numbers) of people who took it upon themselves to fight the mouth breathing scourge of people making hunter twinks
Magrain
Veteran
I once tried hunter, all 3 specs. Class didnt really click for me, returned back to lock lmao
accel
Member
Just in case, I am yet to see anything like this on EU. The most I saw was limiting the number of hunters in a 5-man party. (And more than half of those times that I saw it was me doing the limiting in my parties.)
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
Agree to disagree at this point I guess, I gave in game examples of how doubling up CDs clearly increase their effective use and you choose to argue the out of game examples. Two people get the same thing but one person can use it more freely and effectively because they are in a better starting position; this does not close the gap in any significant way because while it is good to have something when you had nothing the other guy is just getting more value anyway.
Thanks for the clarity. Can intentional trolling possibly be an act of bravery?
accel
Member
Your in-game examples did not show that one more CD is more beneficial to someone who has more CDs at all. Your logic was: OK, if I use an interrupt, I cannot kill a healer, but if I use both an interrupt and a stun, I can; wow, this means that having one more CD was more beneficial to me than to the healer. The conclusion did not follow at all. If at the time you were getting your new CD a healer would also have gotten a CD, you might just as well continued to not be able to kill them.
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
That isn't the point being made. The point being made is that w cds used congruently is far more powerful and effective than one. In the example the stun or the interior alone are ineffective but the ability to chain them is. A class that has lots off cc that they can chain benefits more than a class that has to wait for their 1 other CD to be as effective (and hope the opponent doesn't trinket). The uptime of multiple cds is often needed to make impactful plays against geared opponents or tough fights.
That's not even touching on how dmg output makes both defensive and offensive cds much more effective. How much dmg a character does.
accel
Member
I am sorry, the point was whether adding more CDs to everyone reduce the relative differences between unbalanced specs or not.
I said this: "The more things everyone has access to, the smaller the *relative* difference. The relative difference between 8 and 10 is bigger than the relative difference between 12 and 14. That's what I meant. It's relative differences that matter, not absolute ones, too."
And you replied with this, disagreeing: "although that is numerically correct, it doesn't really work like that."
Your examples did not show that new CDs are more beneficial to those who already have more of them. In fact, some of your examples showed exactly the reverse. Adding more CDs to everyone does reduce relative differences, like I said.
That adding a stun on top of an interrupt is beneficial is obvious and rather uninteresting.
accel
Member
It's so damn hilarious. L-) All you ever did in this thread was stated that hunters are idiot proof, an obvious exaggeration, then kept stating that over and over ignoring replies to the contrary, and now you pretend that your point of view has actually been "proven" to the level where it is akin to stating that blue is blue and red is red. In reality, you just give up way too easily, had some losses in bgs, decided that you lost not because you didn't try but rather because hunters are too op, and then you just kept buying into your bs every day until it solidified in your head completely.
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