How to counter level 80 DPS with 409 BoE's.

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glancealot

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at 80, the best you can do is around 41k health + 85% resil with not even 3000 spell power. this means an effective health of only around 270k which is pathetic when 80 mages can easily do sustained 100k+ dps.

you need an effective health of at least 450k to have a chance to survive the ridiculous burst that casters can output, remember, you are not gonna be facing just 1 dps in a BG.

you also need tons of spell power which goes against the idea of stacking resil because pvp pieces don't come with lots of spell power, furthermore, as Aelobin pointed out, you can only use the ridiculous MoP res gem on items over 417, which aren't available to 80's.

last but not least, if you are a paladin, it would be nice if you could use MoP enchants, but 372+ weapons available to paladin at 80 aren't exactly meant for healing, and you probably don't have access to 277 wrath glad weapons to begin with.

so the conclusion is: there is not much to gain at 80.

so which level is the best if you are a healer? 81? 82? 83? 84?

it is probably a different answer for each class, but for holy paladins, it looks like 82 is where you hit a sweet spot, mainly because of two items: http://www.wowhead.com/item=87455 and http://www.wowhead.com/item=87466

in fact, you can either be holy or non-holy, but i feel that holy is the only way to go because this way you can produce enough HPS (healing per second) that matches the DPS of a 409'd level 80 DPS twink. (we will explain this at the end)

here is a chardev of an 82 paladin that i set up, unbuffed stats: 465k effective health with 6023 spell power.

http://chardev.org/profile/2158-82-paladin.html

a note on profesion choices: BS for MoP sockets on bracers+gloves and LW of course for the 750 stamina enchant.

to put things into perspective (again, everything we talk about is assumed to be unbuffed),

a, 465k effective health is more than anything that an 80 can achieve.

b, 6k SP is something that an 80 paladin can never achieve. splotion has only 5k even when he is in his full int pve set. again, the key point is that, we hit 6k while focusing on stamina and resil!

c, if a mage with 140k sustained PVE dps attacks you(of course, a mage can never achive this kind of dps in PvP, but I am using 140k to prove my point!) while you spam flash of light on yourself. how long would it take for the mage to kill you?

his dps would be around 30k because of your 78.6% resil. and your HPS would be: (here the only buff we consider is Seal of Insight)

(((10652+6023*112%)*1.25*1.05*1.10*1.2276)/(1.5/(1.2938)) = 26.6k

10652 is the base heal of 82 flash of light
6023*112% is contributed by your spell power
1.25 is holy insight's 25% bonus healing
1.05 is Seal of Insight's 5% bonus healing
1.10 is glyph of flash of light
1.2276 is contributed by your crit
1.5/1.2938 is your GCD/flash of light casting speed. (because you have 19.38 base haste and 10 from Seal of Insight)

but wait, your 21% mastery gives an absorb shield that is almost 6k, making your total HPS 32k. so this means this mage can never kill you if both of you just cast without interruption.

this is actually the point of leveling past 80 as a holy paladin: not only you can maintain a 450k+ effective health pool which is important when you are silenced(not casting spells), but also when your are casting spells, your HPS is
comparable to 409'd 80 casters dps.

of course this doesn't happen in PvP because he is gonna interrupt your healing and you are gonna LoS his spells etc. and your heals are most likely way stronger compared to his DPS because you will be buffed too. (don't forget that 140k we used above is a mage's optimized DPS, while the HPS we calculated took only 1 self-buff into consideration)

therefore, this indeed shows the durability of an 82 holy paladin.

furthermore, it is funny that this mage can solo Vault of Archavon but can never kill you.
 
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here is another holy paladin template, this one doesn't focus on resil as much (still has 72% resil). but it has more armor, can heal better (way better, look at mastery and haste) and has an awesome "oh shit" trinket that can be used once every two min.

chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA
 
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Sorry but I stopped reading after the first sentence(s) because you keep comparing PvP to numbers from a fully PvE geared mage (including a potion).

Zmirnoff used all his cooldowns there (including a lucky mastery proc from windsong) and the target (aka boss) had no resillience and no brain.

He actually did a test duel yesterday against a full resi resto shammy (aka Xipe) and he could only kill him if he had all cooldowns up and if there were no insig/dispels of his debuffs.
 
Aelobin you stopped reading too early. the point of this post is to say paladin healers are way more OP at a higher level now. simply stating how an 80 manages in a duel has nothing to do with that point, you need to compare the two, which is what i did in the remaining of the post.
 
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you keep comparing PvP to numbers from a fully PvE geared mage (including a potion).

this is why i kept mentioning effective health.
 
He actually did a test duel yesterday against a full resi resto shammy (aka Xipe) and he could only kill him if he had all cooldowns up and if there were no insig/dispels of his debuffs.

yet you disregarded my entire post when i did mention a resil stacking shaman in the very first sentence. i have a feeling that either you were being subjective or you hate reading wall of text.
 
do we have queue pops on EU side now?

Nope.

BTT: a Question: is the Leatherworking bonus Working on the Ilvl 409 Bracers?(the 500 Int Enchant).I think when i got both of the Ilvl 409 Int Trinkets, i can Learn Leatherworking as a Second Prof and can reach more Crazy Stats on 80.
 
good point...so you can't put socket on 416+ bracers/gloves?

hmmm...

Huh, wha?

It's just there isn't enough sockets (or ilevel, in the MoP level sense) to put the gems, in addition to there being less point because in JWC's case it costs you stats (where in cata, you could put epic gems) whereas say LW/alchemy cost a lot less.
 
Huh, wha?

It's just there isn't enough sockets (or ilevel, in the MoP level sense) to put the gems, in addition to there being less point because in JWC's case it costs you stats (where in cata, you could put epic gems) whereas say LW/alchemy cost a lot less.

i meant, there is no way for an 81~84 to put a socket on a piece of 416+ gear.

this defeats part of the purpose of leveling past 80+.
 
you could, of course, get sockets on 416+ gears by doing what 24's have been doing for ages...
 
well, this is sad.

due to Splosion's reminder, i realized that any level 80~84 cannot use MoP gems anywhere but in the head slot.

the chardev template is updated.
 
Wait wait, 80-84s can use the MoP gems as BS, as long as the gear is above 416 (which I believe it is, is it not?)

you are missing the point and thus the point of my post above. BS below 550 cannot put socket on 416+ gears. read the tooltip.
 
this is why theorycrafting rocks, you don't need to level BS to 525 to realize you have made a huge mistake. ;)
 
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