How to Balance 19s - v2.0

Kore nametooshort

OG
I'm not anywhere near putting everything into this thread yet. Theres still a lot I'm going to add, so just bear that in mind. Thanks :)



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Notes to Self:

- Format

- Notes section

- Find stuff I wrote

- Finish various sections





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Most of you are probably familiar with my previous thread http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/18287-how-balance-19s-final.html and I feel that was a successful endeavour, however it is now (nearly) 3 patches old and I have changed my mind on certain points. I feel that it was also a little vague in its explanations and justifications. Besides this, balancing is an ittirative process so that previous thread was a good start, but anything can, and should, be improved on, so that is what this thread is for.



In this thread I hope to build upon what was discussed and decided last time and to provide more explanations with concrete reasoning and calculations.





My Design Goals



Low levels are not the same as endgame and should not be treated as such. Ideally it would be brilliant to balance level 19s around the same, or better, parameters as endgame, that being 3v3 is balanced and each spec is viable. This however may not be entirely possible.



I will certainly try to balance as finely as possible to the best of my ability, hopefully with your help, but the goal I will be setting will be to make every role of each class useful in each battleground. By roles I mean healing, melee, ranged and flag carrying. If a class has a healing, tanking and dps spec for instance I will endeavour to make each of those specs viable. For classes that have multiple specs that share roles such as a warrior with 2 melee specs I will try my best to make both equally viable, however I will not risk making one spec over powered in order to make both viable.



I do accept that these threads do have limitations. As I said earlier, balancing is an ittirative process and unfortunately we do not have the tools to test any suggestions we provide. As such these solutions will at best be very well informed estimations, but if we can make things work out on paper I feel sure that the low level pvp scene will be a damn sight better than it currently is. Leagues better.





In This Thread



As in the previous thread this thread will be split roughly into three sections: Problems, Solutions and Justifications. The format will change slightly, problems will remain in one large group but solutions and justifications will be grouped together by their subsections, for the moment at least.



There will also be a section in the opening post where I pose questions and discussion topics that I feel are important at the moment. Of course I actively encourage you to discuss all sections of low level imbalance, but be sure to check the first post occasionally to see if there is anything I feel deserves greater attention. I will also make a carbon copy post of each topic from this section in the thread so that it doesn't get lost when I remove it to pose a new discussion.



I would ideally like to keep all related discussion to this thread, so there is no need to go and necro the discussion groups created for the previous thread. I will also be more liberal than usual with handing out infractions to irrelevant, unhelpful or trolling posts, but as long as you are contributing in a constructive manner I'll be fair.





Important Discussion Topics



There is just one topic I feel deserves special attention at the moment (don't worry, there will be more later).



What levels of damage are desirable?



As anyone who plays low level battlegrounds will tell you, damage is too high. It is therefore in our best interests to decide on what we feel is an acceptable level of damage, dps, burst, survivability and healing



One of the main design ideas of cataclysm endgame pvp was to reduce the burstiness that was prevalent during wrath and to slow down the pace of pvp. I feel that this is a particularly good course to take for low level pvp since high burst is obviously not working at all, a slower environment is desirable in order to battleground leveling players to learn their class and we lack survivability options that higher level players have and therefore rely heavily on team synergy and peels which have longer reaction times than being more self sustained.



DPS in PvP is often largely unimportant since burst and control wins the day, but it is important to consider, since healer mana should ultimately matter. Therefore it should be carefully considered what sustainable dps we feel is approptiate for players to be taking after things like resilience, talents, abilities and miltagation are accounted for (leave aside for the moment potential effects on PvE).



As I said before, burst and control is what makes and breaks combat in PvP. This is intimately linked to survivability and healing however. We need to consider the circumstances we expect players to be in, from an FC with 2 healers up against 5 dps to a midfield brawl to an arena battle. The key questions we need to be asking are "How quickly should we be able to down an EFC?", "What are the extremes of acceptability in each situation for survival and burst?" and "What is the maximum acceptable amount of burst a single character should be able to produce in an X second window?"



Regarding the "extremes of acceptability", try and consider as many different scenarios as possible and provide each extreme as well as what you consider the ideal level.



/discuss!





Effects On PvE



Yeah, I wrote this down somewhere. Take it from me for now that this is accounted for and its all hunky dory.
 
Problems



I'll copy, paste and tweak this from the previous thread at some point.



Solutions and Justifications



General

[I'll leave this section relatively unfinished for now, I'll mostly just list the solutions]

Solutions

  • Make resistance rating give zero resist chance below level 60
  • Reduce the cooldown of all pvp trinkets to 2 minutes
  • Create a feature in the wargame interface to allow random wargames in order to recreate arena skirmishes
  • Make the first major and minor (not prime) glyphs learned at level 15, all other glyph slots are not changed.
 
Please keep in mind that at the moment these are mostly utility changes. These suggestions are all under the assumption that damage and survivability is appropriately balanced. I will also be coming back to finish everything before giving them a thorough polishing later on.



Druids

Solutions

  • Ravage is introduced to the bracket
  • Nature's Grasp (full 3 charges) introduced
  • Skull Bash introduced
  • Either Insect Swarm introduced - OR - a way is found to incorportate Sunfire and Lunar Shower talents into the Balance talent specialisation without impact on endgame druids.
  • Thorns scaled back fairly substantially
  • Buff to regrowth



Justifications

Feral

These changes will give feral both the utility and burst that they currently lack. At the moment their burst is very limited and requires substantial ramp up time and sacrifice. Their utility is limited to rooting enemies, providing thorns to protect team members and providing lacklustre healing. They do however have very good mobility which allows them to stick to targets with relative ease but with little means of helping secure a kill. This means that currently they are in a state of hovering inbetween being a support class and being an offensive melee but with little burst or kill securing utility. This leads to quite unfulfilling gameplay.



A properly balanced Ravage will allow the feral to provide burst as the class is intended. This will give it an edge and allow the feral to help create pressure. In addition to Ravage, the Feral will receive Skull Bash. This is a 4second lock out, 13yard range and 60second cooldown ability. This cooldown is incredibly long for an interrupt, so I think it fair to consider this a minor buff. It will however allow the feral to participate in locking down an enemy and securing a kill. I debated the merits and limitations of Skull Bash with myself for a while, originally I wanted to introduce Maim. Maim would provide the feral with reliable, melee range control, but at the expense of reducing damage from ferocious bite. I felt this was perhaps a little too strong for the feral, however this is still very much up in the air and debate on this would be very much welcome. It might be a good idea to nerf mangle and buff fero bite to compensate introducing Maim.



We also need to consider Thorns for the feral. Glyph of Thorns is one of the most potent majors for the feral with these changes, so the nerf to thorns was warranted. It would be very OP for a feral to be able to provide a strong thorn shield every 25 seconds, therefore thorns needs to be nerfed. The aim is to still have thorns provide the same role as before, but to not be as gamebreaking for the opposing side. At the moment Thorns can kill an opposing feral or rogue in its duration. After this change I hope for it to provide enough incentive to stop attacking, but not enough to warrant it being impossible to attack the enemy due to overwhelming reactive damage. Due to the low cool down of Thorns and the Ferals increased utility enemies should be able to still get a kill through Thorns if they so desire, just at a cost.



And lastly healing. Predatory Strikes will be very popular amongst ferals, therefore they will have access to a large number of instant heals. The buff to regrowth will not however have a profound effect on feral healing. Without Nurturing Instinct their heals will still be lacklustre and Preatory Strike heals will be unlikely to save anyone and will just provide low, semi regular heals should the feral want to supply it. A feral will still need to come out of form and turret heal to help keep someone alive under pressure.



Resto

Druids currently have a weak Regrowth and due to a lengthy cooldown on Swiftmend, lack of Glyph of Swiftmend and offensive dispels they can struggle to provide healing when forced to move. They do have good kiting tools however and can keep melee at distance effectively, but their throughput dips as a result. This is of course the intended effect of the pressure produced by the melee, but the druid has little way to counter this, especially with the nerf to thorns. Nature's Grasp will provide this tool and will allow the druid to self peel. Its cooldown and dispel vulnerability will keep the ability balanced however and will allow the druid to briefly be able to produce greater throughput under pressure.



The buff to Regrowth is merely there to keep druids competitive with other healers. The buff size is relative to current damage and healing levels. The healing value will very likely increase, but may decrease if it is decided that healing needs to be drastically lowered.



Insect Swarm would not be game breaking for a resto druid, but it is an unnecessary buff. Ideally I would not like to introduce it, but if there is no option for balance I would not feel much regret in introducing it. It might even be worthwhile in the end to help the resto druid secure his niche and become a worthwhile addition to an offense.



It is important for each class to have a niche, otherwise there is often little distinction between classes which is undesirable and it often leads to one class being consitently favoured over another. In the druid's case it is Thorns. This has obvious limitations however, namely that I intend on nerfing it. Originally I wanted to try and give resto a defensive dispel, but I thought this would be a buff too far and it would detract from priests' niche. I still feel that there could very likely still be too few defensive dispels in the bracket, but it would perhaps be unwise to give it to druids, despite my love for the spec. It will be important to get the balancing for thorns right in order to fill the druid niche properly.



Balance

Babyboomkin (I will be referring to it as boomkin to reduce confusion with the term "balance" which I will be using a lot in this thread) is a tricky spec. With cataclysm came a drastic increase to it's cast times and at endgame it relies on DoTs and Moonfire spam to achieve sustainable dps with various other abilities that gain it time to stand and cast its more potent spells. It has also become much more necessary to cast these long cast times since they now need to reach eclipse state to have maximum potential. At level 19 we do not have access to Treants or Typhoon or other spells to create this space to cast but it is still important to make it possible to reliably achieve eclipse state or reliably predict when eclipse can be achieved so we can balance accordingly. However, in 4.2 there is a change that allows Moonfire/Sunfire to generate/consume lunar/solar energy when under the effect of Lunar Shower.



I thus see three options. Firstly it could be designed so that eclipse is nigh impossible to achieve when moving and for mobile dps to come from Moonfire and Insect Swarm DoTs. This would be achieved by merely introducing Insect Swarm and scaling it's DoT and Moonfire's DoT appropriately. This is not compelling gameplay however and creates problems as druid dps will sometimes be high due to achieving eclipse and other times it will not be. This makes it very difficult to utilise in game and to calculate on paper. Most importantly and as I said before, this will not be compelling or necessarily balanced gameplay. It is also likely to make the boomkin much too similar to other specs like the shadow priest or affliciton warlock. The next option is to incorporate Lunar Shower and Sunfire talents into the boomkin tree specialisation. This makes eclipse much easier to anticipate and balance and provides more exciting game play. Sunfire and Lunar Shower would have to have their respective spots filled with "filler" talents that are shaved from other talents and made attractive enough for every boomkin druid to want to take them. The net effect would be that endgame boomkin would still spend the same points in the same places except for Lunar Shower and Sunfire which would be absorbed else where. This works well with these two talents since no boomkin would ever skip those two talents afaik. Wrath and Starfire would be scaled to be attractive and potent when the ability to cast is given, but not game breaking. Starsurge would be balanced around being cast on cooldown, but with the potential for providing decent burstThis could also potentially work well for Blizzard. There is often a lot of consternation on the forums about the effectiveness of boomkin in PvP. Perhaps Blizzard could work a way into creating PvP utility for endgame using those talent spaces. Perhaps. Thirdly, there is Typhoon. Typhoon could swap places with Starsurge to become the active specialisation ability for boomkin. I do not really consider this a good option however since it might give boomkin too much control and would potentially make boomkin flag carriers OP. I listed it here for referance however.



Nature's Grasp and the Thorns nerf give the same utility to boomkin as it does to resto, the ability to cast under pressure. With appropriate scaling to boomkin damage this will be balanced. The buff to regrowth will have to be carefully considered and it will affect boomkin survivability, but I believe it can be accounted for when the numbers are crunched later on



Flag Carrying

With increased offensive and defensive dispels in the bracket I feel that Nature's Grasp and Thorns will not be too powerful at all. Druids have historically been good FCs and in previous expansions they have perhaps been too good. Buffing enemy mobility and dispels should help combat that. I feel that before druids had too good mobility and too low actual defense which led to them being OP when kiting, but ineffective at tanking. Now that a feral bear can actually produce damage and a resto can heal under pressure that their tanking ability has been buffed and so I can warrant the reduction in relative kiting ability from previous xpacs.







Hunters

Solutions

[/list][*]Concussive Shot removed from the bracket

[*]Disengage removed from the bracket

[*]Scattershot remains

[*]Wingclip remains

[*]All pet abilities returned to the bracket[/list]



Justifications

I have a lovely long wall of text written down next to me explaining why I think this is the best combination of hunter utility. I'll find time to write it up at some point after I've done the rest of everything. For now let me just say that I feel it provides the the most appropriate utility for hunters against melee and ranged in every situtation. I considered Disengage, Scattershot, Wingclip, Concussive Shot, pet abilities and glyphed Freezing Trap and launcher and I decided this gave the best results.



Mage

Solutions

  • Mana shield introduced
  • Cone of Cold removed
  • Counterspell remains
  • Blastwave and Pyroblast switch places in the fire tree
  • Scorch introduced



Justifications

Mages have too much control and too little straight survivability. This leads to them being OP against melee, especially with lowered burst, and relatively vulonerable to ranged damage. They do have tools to combat this, such as blinking into a hunter deadzone or counterspelling a caster, but these both require the use of important utility, which is fine to a certain extent, but not ideal. It also leaves them vulnerable when multiple ranged attack them. This is the reasoning for the removal of Cone of Cold and the introduction of Mana Shield. Mana Shield should provide a noticable absorb, but not enough to save them in a tight situation, the saving will be down to the mage being smart with their other abilities. Mages will also have access to Glyph of Evocation. This is a relatively potent self heal that is slightly less restricted than bandages, but due to its similarity to bandaging I don't see it being OP at all and will actually be beneficial to mage balance.



The Scorch and Blastwave changes were obviously for the benefit of fire. As I said before, if I can make a spec viable I will try. There is no point letting a spec go unviable just because it would be a little extra effort if it is infact possible. The aim with these changes is to make fire into a mix of arcane and frost. What I mean by this is that arcane is generally a mobile offensive mage and frost is a more stationary defensive mage. With fire I hope to be able to create a spec that is somewhere between those two extremes.



Blastwave is meant to fill the control gap that is created by not having Water Elemental. Blastwave is less powerful than Freeze. Granted it has a noticably shorter CD, but its effect is much shorter and is merely a 70% snare rather than an 8 second root. Fire also does not have a pet constantly casting water bolts and casting frostbolt as fire is much less attractive since it is overwritten by Blastwave, cannot benefit from target being frozen (shatter), cannot get early frost and it does not have frost specialisation. This therefore makes the fire spec less potent that Frost at control, but more potent than Arcane. Next we have to consider damage. Fire's Fireblast is 35% better than an arcane Fireblast but that is still woefully short of the effectiveness of Arcane Barrage (only ~67.5% of the damage with double the cooldown and much more expensive) and leaves the fire nothing to do inbetween Fireblasts. Scorch should fill this role well, giving fire a viable damage source. Ideally I would like to make scorch castable when moving as fire, but I will investigate this further (perhaps by making Firestarter a specialisation and making Improved Hot Streak a 3 point 33/66/100 rather than 2 point). Next I need to mention Blazing Speed and Impact. These both have pretty low proc rates, which will ensure that they can't be too powerful, but it will give mages the unpredictability that some players enjoy. Perhaps keeping scorch values similar to Fireblast and allowing Scorch while moving would keep Fireblast free enough for Impact to be more usable when needed.



All these make the fire spec attractive and PuG viable, but not necessarily more powerful than either Frost or Arcane. With suitable balancing I feel that all three specs can be made to work well. Fire will be less predictable and often more frustrating, but I hope some enterprising mage will find it entertaining and will enjoy the spec. I am hesitant to buff the spec further since I do not want to risk is surpassing Arcane or Frost.



Paladin

  • Hammer of Justice stun duration reduced to 4 seconds
  • Hand of Freedom introduced
  • Long Arm of the Law and Judgement of the Bold swap places in the Retribution talent tree
  • Make Sacred Cleansing part of the Holy talent specialisation
  • introduce Cleanse
  • substantial nerf to Avenger's Shield





Justification

The cleanse change is still up for debate. I am angling towards it to since it helps create the HPaladin's niche and there will possibly be a distinct lack of dispels in the bracket. That said, it would make the niche difference between the priest and the paladin quite small, but I feel that fear bomb and offensive dispel vs HoF and HoJ as well as other fundamental differences keeps them unique enough.





Priest

Solutions

  • Introduce Dispel Magic



Justifications

I feel that utility wise the priest is in a pretty good situation at the moment. Holy can self peel with fear bomb and chastise and shadow has off healing, fear bomb and mindflay. Disc is possibly at the lower end of the spectrum, but with careful scaling of penance and holy spell damage I feel it could still be made attractive. Introducing Dispel gives priests back their niche and the rest is just a matter of scaling. I feel that compared to other healers the priests more flexible healing, utility and cooldowns (penance, desperate prayer etc) give the priest enough to compare favourably to mother healer's survivability mechanics.



It might be necessary to introduce Devouring Plague for Shadow Priests' benefit, but that should likely be decided when damage levels are figured out. I am hesitant to give Shadow Priests tools that might end up with them being funneled into a tab->dot role.



Rogue

Solutions

  • Substantial nerf to Ambush
  • Blade Flurry and Revealing Strike switch places in the combat talent tree



Justification

The intent with rogues is to make combat into a more damage orientated spec that is able to get up into someone's grill and can produce higher dps and Eviscerate burst if part of a more organised group. Subtlety is then made a slightly weaker dps spec, but due to increased moblity and better ambush burst they are still useful but in a different way. I feel that rogue utility if fine the way it is, maybe a little strong in the interrupt department though.



I considered the idea of giving rogues a snare, but I felt that this could make them too powerful. I would consider an ability like Deadly Throw, but I would also consider removing either Gouge or Kick to compenate. /discuss.



Shaman

Solutions

  • Healing Surge introduced
  • Frostbrand Weapon introduced
  • Riptide and Earthshield swap places in the resto talent tree



Justifications

In 4.2, and especially with the glyph, Thunderstorm will become a reliable enough utility for elemental. Healing surge fixes their survivability woes. It will be worthwhile Lava Burst if their mobile dps is too low however.



Resto will have decent enough survivability with the resto talent tree (Spark of Life and Ancestral Resolve anyone?!), but with just surge and earth shield their healing would be too inflexible. Swapping Earth Shield for riptide gives more active healing and the ability to switch targets more easily giving the shaman the flexibility needed to be viable. Please bear in mind that surge will be scaled appropriately so that it is equal enough to other healers' flash heals.



Enhancement dps and burst can easily be made to work, but they lack meaningful cooldowns to achieve time on target. Frostbrand Weapon gives them the snare they need to keep up with targets with Earthbind Totem filling in the gaps. When other classes use cooldowns to escape they can use healing surge and 1sec ghostwolf to remain alive and on target.





Warlock

Solutions

  • Deathcoil Introduced
  • Soul Link introduced
  • Glyph of Healthstone
  • Curse of Weakness carefully considered



Justification

While under powered at the moment they have the power to become quite powerful with OP DoTs and self healing if not carefully scaled. They suffer at the moment due to the heavy burst environment and lack of self peels. I feel that in a slower pace environment they have the potential to thrive.



With unstable affliction and curse of weakness I feel their niche is safe



Warrior

Solutions

  • Sunder Armour removed from the bracket
  • Heroic Throw introduced
  • Hamstring introduced
  • Bezerker stance introduced
  • Shield Wall introduced
  • Intercept introduced



Justifications

Hamstring, zerker stance and intercept give mobility sorely needed. The most reliable melee snare in the game gives them a small niche. Shield Wall and Heroic Throw give the warrior something to do while wailing in snares. Shield Wall helps the warrior remain a competitive FC.



It will possibly have too little offensive utility however. Perhaps introducing disarm or pummel would make up for this. /discuss





With these changes the warrior will still be pretty limited, it's mobility will still be restricted to one combat charge every 30 seconds, it will not be able to pre generate rage to produce as powerful burst and currently its offensive utility is just a snare and mortal strike/shield slam dispel. Granted Arms has historically had powerful burst, and I think we can still incorporate that without making the class unbalanced while still giving it the utility it needs. I feel that both hamstring and intercept are absolutely essential for the warrior since it is no fun for anybody to be wailing around in a root for the majority of the fight. Their mobility will still be behind other classes.



I introduced Heroic Throw and Shield Wall so that the warrior has some way to either contribute to damage or keep itself alive when controlled. Without it the warrior is just too vulnerable to control imo. Hc Throw isn't too necessary, it was just something that I feel would benefit the class, making it more interesting to play. Shield Wall however is. It helps the warrior be more autonomous, something I would like to encourage in warrior, and it gives the warrior a tool it needs to be viable as a Flag Carrier. Remember that the warrior needs to drop into defensive stance to use it and thus cannot intercept or execute with it active.



I ran out of steam half way through druid. I'll come back later and fill it out more. Don't worry, this isn't nearly anything :)
 
What levels of damage are desirable?



As anyone who plays low level battlegrounds will tell you, damage is too high. It is therefore in our best interests to decide on what we feel is an acceptable level of damage, dps, burst, survivability and healing



One of the main design ideas of cataclysm endgame pvp was to reduce the burstiness that was prevalent during wrath and to slow down the pace of pvp. I feel that this is a particularly good course to take for low level pvp since high burst is obviously not working at all, a slower environment is desirable in order to battleground leveling players to learn their class and we lack survivability options that higher level players have and therefore rely heavily on team synergy and peels which have longer reaction times than being more self sustained.



DPS in PvP is often largely unimportant since burst and control wins the day, but it is important to consider, since healer mana should ultimately matter. Therefore it should be carefully considered what sustainable dps we feel is approptiate for players to be taking after things like resilience, talents, abilities and miltagation are accounted for (leave aside for the moment potential effects on PvE).



As I said before, burst and control is what makes and breaks combat in PvP. This is intimately linked to survivability and healing however. We need to consider the circumstances we expect players to be in, from an FC with 2 healers up against 5 dps to a midfield brawl to an arena battle. The key questions we need to be asking are "How quickly should we be able to down an EFC?", "What are the extremes of acceptability in each situation for survival and burst?" and "What is the maximum acceptable amount of burst a single character should be able to produce in an X second window?"



Regarding the "extremes of acceptability", try and consider as many different scenarios as possible and provide each extreme as well as what you consider the ideal level.



/discuss!
 
Well, one needs to clarify damage per class/spec really. Damage is too high amongst most classes, but really, there is a difference, and it needs to be pointed out. There are classes that can burst, classes that can burst and do constant dps, and amongst those there are classes that are easily cc'd and controlled and others that are not.



Simply nerfing damage across the board would harm more classes than others, and the problems today would still exist.





Also, the 30 stam buff from the summer festival has helped a little. Not saying that we should just increase stam, but seeing prot pallies with 3500hp makes a rogue think twice about opening up when he's surrounded by support :)





Also, I think you need to go easy on the warrior buffs. I mean, I know a lot of people have dogged on warriors for being super weak, and that is true when they have no support, but I think most people here who have played against Rance and his pocket heals can tell you, a buffed out fury warrior spamming Piercing Howl, TC, BT, HS can do some nasty CC and damage. I know some warriors want hamstring, but Piercing Howl is just sick for peels in this bracket since nothing gets you out of it.



The only thing I"d give a warrior is an in-combat charge.
 
Athylle said:
Warrior would be OP beyond belief with those changes.
Click to expand...



Actually I agree. Although they do experience mobility issues, they do alot of damage.



To balance this, I would suggest damage nerfs on specific abilities. Such as Bloodthirst or any other ability that does a high amount of damage.
 
Retribution paladins are far over decent imo and does not need long arm of the law.
 
Idk if I'm the only one that see's this but giving shamans healing surge would just make them the most op class again in it's present state. The problem the bracket is facing can't be fixed by just changing around what spells we have but that damage and healing scaling at low levels is just ridiculous.
 
make everything ridic OP then nerf them down to respected levels
 
augiddin said:
Idk if I'm the only one that see's this but giving shamans healing surge would just make them the most op class again in it's present state. The problem the bracket is facing can't be fixed by just changing around what spells we have but that damage and healing scaling at low levels is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...



agreed, if shammys had healing surge they would automatically become the #1 heals, purge ghostwolf earthbind 1.5 secd heal earth shield = to much. that being said they still need a buff just not healing suge
 
The main problem with low level healing begins with the changed healing model at 85 that was introduced in cataclysm. At 85, slow, steady heals are used primarily while quick, expensive heals are used in emergencies. Because of the nature of twinking and increasing stats far beyond our level, certain classes have seemingly endless quick heals. An interesting solution, imo (if damage was scaled properly) would be to give no classes these quick heals at low levels. This would only work, of course, if damage was scaled back.



Another wild thing would be to give these quick heals a 2-3 second CD at low levels. That would end FoL spamming and such. These changes of course most likely won't happen, but I thought it would be interesting to bounce these ideas around. I repeat, this would only solve anything if the burstyness was lessened.
 
Kalki said:
Well, one needs to clarify damage per class/spec really. Damage is too high amongst most classes, but really, there is a difference, and it needs to be pointed out. There are classes that can burst, classes that can burst and do constant dps, and amongst those there are classes that are easily cc'd and controlled and others that are not.



Simply nerfing damage across the board would harm more classes than others, and the problems today would still exist.





Also, the 30 stam buff from the summer festival has helped a little. Not saying that we should just increase stam, but seeing prot pallies with 3500hp makes a rogue think twice about opening up when he's surrounded by support :)





Also, I think you need to go easy on the warrior buffs. I mean, I know a lot of people have dogged on warriors for being super weak, and that is true when they have no support, but I think most people here who have played against Rance and his pocket heals can tell you, a buffed out fury warrior spamming Piercing Howl, TC, BT, HS can do some nasty CC and damage. I know some warriors want hamstring, but Piercing Howl is just sick for peels in this bracket since nothing gets you out of it.



The only thing I"d give a warrior is an in-combat charge.
Click to expand...



In combat charge and hamstring. People dont wanna just play fury.
 
People are being greedy with the whole ever spec Must be viable crap that has never been the case and will never happen. As long as ever class has a viable option I'll be content.
 
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