dps recount data here: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17603-help-balance-19s-wtb-recount-data.html
19 healer discussion here: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17836-how-balance-19-healers.html
balancing low levels discussion: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/groups/balancing-low-levels.html
Right, its no secret that some dps specs are wildly overpowered compared to other ones so here i'd like to discuss which dps specs are unbalanced and how to make dps specs more balanced.
I apologise in advance for any incoherence, i wrote this all in one sitting and haven't spell checked it yet
My observations:
Feral: Lack burst. In 4.0.6 mangle receives a buff and rake a nerf, but over all the results in a net buff of about +2.5% dps. Lack utility especially considering the powershifting nerf and predstrikes->HT nerf.
Balance: pretty reliant on long cast times which isnt good. Starsurge hits too hard.
hunters: explosive shot hits far too hard. Autoshot while moving will be a buff too far. Too much utility and gap makers/snares. Pets die too easily.
Mage: Counterspell is OP, the lock out time is simply too long. Very squishy, when they take damage they really feel it.
Fire: about the right number of snares, not enough mobile dps, pyro is useless.
Frost: too many roots, 3 on short cool downs + frostbolts is too much and gimps melee.
Arcane: counterspell, let alone imp CS is over the top. Other than that i feel nova is a root too far, with CoC imp blink and mobile dps they are OP.
Paladins: ToT is an issue. Survivability is too high with FoL in its current state. Exorcism hits too hard.
ret: Hits far too hard, the hardest hitting spec in the bracket.
prot: hits too hard for a spec with its survivability, still has ToT issues.
Disc: higher dps than some dps specs. Penance one shots levelers, i know its supposed to be an offensive healer but there is a limit.
Shadow: pityful dps. Mind Blast receives a 60% buff in 4.0.6 but this isnt enough.
Rogue: Low damage, but good utility. They tend to look lost once someone survives an opener. Don't have much control over the sources of their dps.
Shaman: I felt like crying when playing mine because my survivability was so low. Purge is OP against some healers.
Elemental: Thunderpunt has too long a CD, its not necessarily there when needed. Reliance on lightning bolt for a lot of dps is a problem due to lack of gap makers and maintainers.
Enhancement: Good damage, but they find it difficult to maintain time on target when they achieve it.
Warlocks: I still need recount data on damage here. They are really squishy.
Warriors: ToT is a huge issue here. Lack of hamstring forces warriors into fury spec
Fury: damage is too high, utility too low
Arms: Damage too high, could use a tad more utility. Rotation is clunky and slow.
Possible solutions:
Feral: - Ravage and Bash
Balance: - Make typhoon the specialisation ability and starsurge can take its place in the talent tree.
Hunter: - Make movable autoshot only learnable at level 60.
- I think explosive shot in its current form is too strong for the bracket. I also don't think it's easily nerfable though it would be an option, however it might be better for the bracket if it was swapped with wyvern sting. This alone would lower hunter damage by 20% and would drastically lower their moving dps.
- Remove scatter shot and conc shot. Hunters already have two stuns (if BM and wyvern sting is surv) and a further disorientate is OP. With wingclip, stuns and disengage a skilled hunter should have enough tools to play well against melee classes, if they kept conc shot they would remain OP. Disengage likely has to stay to appease blizzards pve levelers.
Mages: - Make Blastwave the fire specialisation ability and put pyro in its place in the talent tree.
- Remove Counterspell from the bracket. It is OP. Playing from both a healers PoV and a mages PoV i have observed that it locks players out for too long for the bracket and isnt necessary for the mage to succeed, you have poly->fireblast, use it.
- Remove frost nova from the bracket (player only, keep pet one). This leaves frost with two roots, fire with two snares and arcane with a snare and still pretty damn good mobility. I feel as a mage myself that this would make me balanced CC wise.
- Give scorch to the bracket. Fire wants to be able to deal damage too, yo.
- Give mana shield. Especially considering the CC nerfs i have suggested mages survivability is low. This should fix them, mana isn't a problem anyway.
Paladin: I have suggested heavy nerfs to FoL in the healer thread, this will affect prot and ret heals as well.
- Give HoF, its integral to allowing Pallies ToT.
- Nerf Exo by 40%, it shouldnt be integral to pally dps without art of war.
Ret: Needs about a 30% nerf
- Nerf Templar's Verdict to 30/70/180% weapon damage in same manner as Ambush was nerfed.
- Crusader strike now scales with 75% weapon damage at level 19
Prot: needs about a 15% dps nerf
- Nerf Avengers Shield Damage substantially by 60%. With nerf to CS this would be enough.
Disc: - Nerf penance damage by 40%.
- Nerf Holf fire damage by 33%
- Mind Blast damage will be buffed by 60% to compensate somewhat.
- 20% buff to SW, needed to buff shadow.
This will end up as something of a 10% nerf while reducing their burst and reliance on penance
Shadow: - 60% buff to mind blast
- 20% buff to mindflay
- 20% buff to SW
These changes will put Shadow dps up with that of an arcane mage, but less mobile.
I only have data for sub.
Sub: Needs a 20-25% dps boost without affecting opening burst.
- 100% buff to sinister strike, it is surprisingly low.
- 35% buff to eviscerate.
This buffs dps and finishers enough to increase dps by just over 20%.
Shaman: - Giving Healing Surge fixes both resto problems and ele/enhance survivability. Assuming it is implemented as i suggested in the healer thread i dont feel that it would be OP.
- Give frost Shock. This allows elemental and resto some gap maintaining ability and escapability and gives enhancement a gap closing ability. Definately needed imo as shaman have no gap cooldowns and ghostwolf + EB totem is inadequate.
- Remove purge, it has no place in the bracket by being OP against some healers and not others, especially with no dispel resistance mechanics. It also means shaman can't ask for so much other utility if they already have purge.
Elemental: - With major glyphs thunderstorm has a largely reduced CD.
Enhance: - Fine with FS and HS.
Warlock: - Give Soul link. passive 20% damage "decrease" would make the difference.
- Give Sacrifice, a large shield with a long enough CD.
These will increase lock survivability enough to make them not die to the slightest burst.
Warrior: - Give hamstring
- Give Intercept and Berserker Stance
- 30% HS nerf in 4.0.6
- Give disarm
- Sunder armour removed from the bracket (to make space for more abilities)
Arms: needs roughly a 10% dps nerf and a less clunky rotation.
- Mortal strike now hits for 100% weapon damage at level 19
- Give overpower, but it only hits for 80% weapon damage at level 19.
- Make this a part of the arms specialisation "Whenever your Rend ability causes damage, you have a 40% chance of allowing the use of Overpower for 9 sec. This effect will not occur more than once every 5 sec." The talent taste for blood would then have its Overpower proc chance portion changed to an additional 0/30/60% chance.
I make this about a 10% nerf, an overall nerf to burst while a buff to how the rotation plays.
Fury: needs a 25% nerf.
- The only obvious way to nerf fury in addition to HS nerf is to drastically nerf bloodthirst. A 50% nerf would be necessary to achieve enough nerf to fury dps to make them not be OP when they get intercept.
Prot: Needs a 20-25% nerf for a spec with this much survivability
- With the 30% nerf to heroic strike the best way to acheive this would be to nerf shield slam of 50%
19 healer discussion here: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/15-19-bracket/17836-how-balance-19-healers.html
balancing low levels discussion: http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/groups/balancing-low-levels.html
Right, its no secret that some dps specs are wildly overpowered compared to other ones so here i'd like to discuss which dps specs are unbalanced and how to make dps specs more balanced.
I apologise in advance for any incoherence, i wrote this all in one sitting and haven't spell checked it yet
My observations:
Feral: Lack burst. In 4.0.6 mangle receives a buff and rake a nerf, but over all the results in a net buff of about +2.5% dps. Lack utility especially considering the powershifting nerf and predstrikes->HT nerf.
Balance: pretty reliant on long cast times which isnt good. Starsurge hits too hard.
hunters: explosive shot hits far too hard. Autoshot while moving will be a buff too far. Too much utility and gap makers/snares. Pets die too easily.
Mage: Counterspell is OP, the lock out time is simply too long. Very squishy, when they take damage they really feel it.
Fire: about the right number of snares, not enough mobile dps, pyro is useless.
Frost: too many roots, 3 on short cool downs + frostbolts is too much and gimps melee.
Arcane: counterspell, let alone imp CS is over the top. Other than that i feel nova is a root too far, with CoC imp blink and mobile dps they are OP.
Paladins: ToT is an issue. Survivability is too high with FoL in its current state. Exorcism hits too hard.
ret: Hits far too hard, the hardest hitting spec in the bracket.
prot: hits too hard for a spec with its survivability, still has ToT issues.
Disc: higher dps than some dps specs. Penance one shots levelers, i know its supposed to be an offensive healer but there is a limit.
Shadow: pityful dps. Mind Blast receives a 60% buff in 4.0.6 but this isnt enough.
Rogue: Low damage, but good utility. They tend to look lost once someone survives an opener. Don't have much control over the sources of their dps.
Shaman: I felt like crying when playing mine because my survivability was so low. Purge is OP against some healers.
Elemental: Thunderpunt has too long a CD, its not necessarily there when needed. Reliance on lightning bolt for a lot of dps is a problem due to lack of gap makers and maintainers.
Enhancement: Good damage, but they find it difficult to maintain time on target when they achieve it.
Warlocks: I still need recount data on damage here. They are really squishy.
Warriors: ToT is a huge issue here. Lack of hamstring forces warriors into fury spec
Fury: damage is too high, utility too low
Arms: Damage too high, could use a tad more utility. Rotation is clunky and slow.
Possible solutions:
Feral: - Ravage and Bash
Balance: - Make typhoon the specialisation ability and starsurge can take its place in the talent tree.
Hunter: - Make movable autoshot only learnable at level 60.
- I think explosive shot in its current form is too strong for the bracket. I also don't think it's easily nerfable though it would be an option, however it might be better for the bracket if it was swapped with wyvern sting. This alone would lower hunter damage by 20% and would drastically lower their moving dps.
- Remove scatter shot and conc shot. Hunters already have two stuns (if BM and wyvern sting is surv) and a further disorientate is OP. With wingclip, stuns and disengage a skilled hunter should have enough tools to play well against melee classes, if they kept conc shot they would remain OP. Disengage likely has to stay to appease blizzards pve levelers.
Mages: - Make Blastwave the fire specialisation ability and put pyro in its place in the talent tree.
- Remove Counterspell from the bracket. It is OP. Playing from both a healers PoV and a mages PoV i have observed that it locks players out for too long for the bracket and isnt necessary for the mage to succeed, you have poly->fireblast, use it.
- Remove frost nova from the bracket (player only, keep pet one). This leaves frost with two roots, fire with two snares and arcane with a snare and still pretty damn good mobility. I feel as a mage myself that this would make me balanced CC wise.
- Give scorch to the bracket. Fire wants to be able to deal damage too, yo.
- Give mana shield. Especially considering the CC nerfs i have suggested mages survivability is low. This should fix them, mana isn't a problem anyway.
Paladin: I have suggested heavy nerfs to FoL in the healer thread, this will affect prot and ret heals as well.
- Give HoF, its integral to allowing Pallies ToT.
- Nerf Exo by 40%, it shouldnt be integral to pally dps without art of war.
Ret: Needs about a 30% nerf
- Nerf Templar's Verdict to 30/70/180% weapon damage in same manner as Ambush was nerfed.
- Crusader strike now scales with 75% weapon damage at level 19
Prot: needs about a 15% dps nerf
- Nerf Avengers Shield Damage substantially by 60%. With nerf to CS this would be enough.
Disc: - Nerf penance damage by 40%.
- Nerf Holf fire damage by 33%
- Mind Blast damage will be buffed by 60% to compensate somewhat.
- 20% buff to SW
, needed to buff shadow.This will end up as something of a 10% nerf while reducing their burst and reliance on penance
Shadow: - 60% buff to mind blast
- 20% buff to mindflay
- 20% buff to SW
These changes will put Shadow dps up with that of an arcane mage, but less mobile.
I only have data for sub.
Sub: Needs a 20-25% dps boost without affecting opening burst.
- 100% buff to sinister strike, it is surprisingly low.
- 35% buff to eviscerate.
This buffs dps and finishers enough to increase dps by just over 20%.
Shaman: - Giving Healing Surge fixes both resto problems and ele/enhance survivability. Assuming it is implemented as i suggested in the healer thread i dont feel that it would be OP.
- Give frost Shock. This allows elemental and resto some gap maintaining ability and escapability and gives enhancement a gap closing ability. Definately needed imo as shaman have no gap cooldowns and ghostwolf + EB totem is inadequate.
- Remove purge, it has no place in the bracket by being OP against some healers and not others, especially with no dispel resistance mechanics. It also means shaman can't ask for so much other utility if they already have purge.
Elemental: - With major glyphs thunderstorm has a largely reduced CD.
Enhance: - Fine with FS and HS.
Warlock: - Give Soul link. passive 20% damage "decrease" would make the difference.
- Give Sacrifice, a large shield with a long enough CD.
These will increase lock survivability enough to make them not die to the slightest burst.
Warrior: - Give hamstring
- Give Intercept and Berserker Stance
- 30% HS nerf in 4.0.6
- Give disarm
- Sunder armour removed from the bracket (to make space for more abilities)
Arms: needs roughly a 10% dps nerf and a less clunky rotation.
- Mortal strike now hits for 100% weapon damage at level 19
- Give overpower, but it only hits for 80% weapon damage at level 19.
- Make this a part of the arms specialisation "Whenever your Rend ability causes damage, you have a 40% chance of allowing the use of Overpower for 9 sec. This effect will not occur more than once every 5 sec." The talent taste for blood would then have its Overpower proc chance portion changed to an additional 0/30/60% chance.
I make this about a 10% nerf, an overall nerf to burst while a buff to how the rotation plays.
Fury: needs a 25% nerf.
- The only obvious way to nerf fury in addition to HS nerf is to drastically nerf bloodthirst. A 50% nerf would be necessary to achieve enough nerf to fury dps to make them not be OP when they get intercept.
Prot: Needs a 20-25% nerf for a spec with this much survivability
- With the 30% nerf to heroic strike the best way to acheive this would be to nerf shield slam of 50%
