How scummy is a lvl 20 BM?

Recluse

Grandfathered
The other day I was called out as being a scumbag by playing my newly geared 20 BM. The thought had crossed my mind while I was leveling him up, but there is definitely a major difference between 20 and 29...

20 BM is tier 1 no doubt. It's up there with other classes like Ret Pallys, Hunters, Spriests, Rogues, Ferals, Boomys, ect... But it's not god tier without guard. I feel like on my rogue I was relieved to find out an enemy brewmaster was level 20. They deal some big damage, their DPS is the largest I've seen, they are extremely mobile, and they have a cheap heal. But they are most definitely killable.

What are your thoughts TwinkInfo?
 
the reason why some people might hate 20bms is the spammable aoe slow, they have pure dmg aka no silence no interrupt no stun, if a 20 bm runs around in full retard mode with 4k hp scaled like the 29s he dies very fast

20 bm is a great supporter with good dmg
 
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Like hombre said the spammable slow is the annoying part. While a 20 bm still feels pretty cheap it's nowhere near as cheap as a 29 bm with guard
 
The thing about 29 BM isn't just the guard. When you're 29 you can get a lot more AP stack gear as well like the Arathi Basin vendor gear with +11 bonus armor to boots / belt, 10 agi scaled bracers / rings from gnomer, THEN it gets to god mode because your guard scales off of AP. A stam stacked brew monk is a joke at 29, as ret pally I can 1v1 most monks in mainly BoA / scarlet halls gear relatively easily but when I run into some 250+ AP stacked brew with no moral's I'll get wrecked.
 
Dude honestly don't even worry too much about what others think. You can't please everyone. #dowhatuwant
 
In a few months in won't matter. People will find something else to bitch about.
Even if monks never existed they would how found something to bitch about. I dare say you cannot find a single thread in the level 20 section with more than 20 posts in that does not have someone complaining about something. Just think about how truly sad that is.
Have a wonderful day.

/cheers
Sweetsidney
 
In a few months in won't matter. People will find something else to bitch about.
Even if monks never existed they would how found something to bitch about. I dare say you cannot find a single thread in the level 20 section with more than 20 posts in that does not have someone complaining about something. Just think about how truly sad that is.
Have a wonderful day.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

Your making it sound like its a bad thing.

Obviously people will always have something to complain about. Their more influenced on thinking that their complaints might do something and change the bracket (which it does, if a specific thing is getting hatred, people in the community will avoid it, unfortunately not people outside the TI community).

So obviously the things that people complain about is only for the purpose of possibly fixing the bracket or w/e. Nothing can be perfect, anything can always be improved.
 
I personally don't see a problem with level 20 BM Monks. If it wasn't for guard then level 29 BM Monks wouldn't be so bad either.
 
Your making it sound like its a bad thing.

Obviously people will always have something to complain about. Their more influenced on thinking that their complaints might do something and change the bracket (which it does, if a specific thing is getting hatred, people in the community will avoid it, unfortunately not people outside the TI community).

So obviously the things that people complain about is only for the purpose of possibly fixing the bracket or w/e. Nothing can be perfect, anything can always be improved.

Of coarse there are many perfect objects.
Haven't you ever drawn a "perfect" circle? Although, I suppose one could see that as being "ideal".
Or a hammer being the "perfect" tool to drive a nail?
Expand your mind, and the rest will follow.

Sweetsidney
 
If you're pure F2P, then you should have no guilt at all playing OP classes, I would almost encourage it to keep your head above water.

The thing is OP classes get Real OP when you Twink them out, 'level 29 P2P' style. (Extra Abilities/Glyphs/Gear etc).

The truth is OP classes come and go, the Classes you feared yesterday aren't the same ones that you fear today, and they won't be the ones you fear tomorrow, so everyone has their turn, but FOTM's want it to be their turn everyday, the thought of outplaying someone with skill doesn't register to them.

I've been in this PvP bracket since 2011, I remember when Druids and Shamans were laughed at, I remember when Hunters were feared, and so on.

My main is my level 20 Rogue since 2011, and when 'Shadowstep' and 'Sprint' were taken away, I still played it, because I enjoyed the Class, and it was about fun to me, not about being the strongest Class. I started my Rogue because I liked the idea of going invisible, not being OP.

As far as what class you should play, play whatever you want, If you play a 29 Feral Druid or Brewmaster Monk, it doesn't really bother me that much.

The real problem is WHY are you playing that Class? what is your intent? Do you genuinely enjoy that Class or want to try it out, or is your intent just to be OP? will you still play that Character if it was nerfed? If you're intent is to be OP then your intent is wrong, these are the same people that will do anything to win, like Bug Abuse, DDO's etc.

There is a term for that called 'FOTM' (Flavour of the Month) that suggests that certain players will just play whatever Class/Specialization is OP at the current time, and this term is absolutely true. In all my years of twinking I have always noticed a difference in Class usage popularity that is totally based on whether that Class is OP or not at the current time.

Look at Mages/Warlocks right now, why are they the most uncommon DPS Classes in the bracket? Because they are one of the weakest. But tomorrow if Mages/Warlocks were buffed to be OP then you would start to see alot more of them coming out of the woodwork.

Now I am not saying you should be a punk and play a weak Class just to be considered fair, but I'm also not going to respect players who always roll whatever the current OP class is.

Legit reasons to pick a Class/Spec:
- Enjoy the Class and its playstyle.
- Want to fill out a certain roll for your Guild/Friends etc.
- You want to try it out.
- Want to make one just for the hell of it/Boredom.
- To have an OP Character as backup to use as an evening force when your Faction is having a really bad day.

Bad reasons to pick a Class/Spec:
- Because they are OP at the current time.
- Because a Patch just came out, buffing all their main Abilities by 40% +.
- Because people get real pissed when you play them.
- So I can get my revenge on those skilled twinkers that play weaker Classes then me and beat me all the time.

And then FOTM's wonder why they never get the same respect as real twinkers.

Also the truth is, after playing a specific Class for years, OP or not, you understand that Class in and out, on a whole other level, a level that 'Tool Tips' or 'Guides' can't teach you. You have played hours of PvP with that Class and now you have something called 'Experience'.

Years of trial and error, mistakes and experimenting, owning and getting owned, have taught you how to play that Class very well and effectively, regardless of being OP or not.

This is when you start to get real good with your Class and you reach a level that FOTM players never reach, because they are too busy playing whatever is OP at the current time.

And lets be honest too, FOTM guys always buy into their own hype, they're always the young, loud, disrespectful, jajas that really think they are getting good because they are near the top of the DPS Scoreboards or winning with their amazing Druid/Monk Premades.

I'll be honest too, recently I starting owning it up on my GF'ed 29 Enhancement Shaman (Armoury in Sig), I can top the scoreboards with my eyes closed, its so easy, in fact it was so easy that I stopped, I just didn't find it challenging enough, and now I play on it when Alliance is facerolling with their premades/OP groups.

And its the mindset behind it aswell, if you are willing to change your Class to win, you will also cheat, Bug Abuse and DDO's to win too, because skill isn't your priority, its more about you receiving the win no matter what, rather than having fun with a Class you enjoy or just outplaying someone.

Newsflash, this is a PvP bracket that became very popular due to the influx of level 20 F2P Twinks that started to populate it back in 2011, because of this, P2P players who were not confident enough in their own skills decided to make P2P Twinks that where higher Level with extra advantages in this bracket to bully the F2P's, and forever it's been a war, since 2011.

And because of that history, this bracket has always been so diverse with its player base, its been consistently full of the nicest people, mixed with FOTM scum.

Back in the day P2P twinks wanted to hand out the ass whooping to the less Geared F2P twinks, remember that? It was the most 1 sided shit I've ever seen, one 'lvl 24, P2P' owning up to Three-Four 'lvl 20 F2P's' at a time.

Well now it's no different, and even though there is 'Veteran Account Status' and 'Item Level Scaling', it's not enough, because these players now resort to playing an OP Class on top of that for more of an advantage.

This Bracket has always been the most imbalanced because of that and it will never change. Think about it, this Bracket consists of: F2P's, Level 20 Veteran Accounts, and P2P 29 Twinks. So complete balance is just not happening.

People remember the Usernames too, we all know the ones who were beating up the F2P's when it was uncool to do so, very unfair, and one sided, they're still around now, lest we forget right? well don't worry guys, as expected, in classic FOTM fashion, they play Druids and Monks now.

That's why Twinkers like 'Spewfeel' will always be more liked and respected than any FOTM's. He's been playing a Warrior for years, he played them back when they were weak and now he plays them when they are Mid-Range, and if Warriors were to be OP next patch he'd still play them but he's a real Warrior at heart so you'd respect him for it. And he is also is very respectful, and doesn't think he's better than everyone just because he has a subscription.

It was becoming so bad to play F2P's in Battlegrounds (especially as a Rogue, no Burst, quick Deaths), that after 4 years, I was forced to go P2P (Level 20 Vet) just so I could be relevant.

After writing up this huge rant, I came up with the sad realization that I should probably make a Twink in the 19 bracket, where it is all P2P players and therefore alot more fair and based on skill.
 
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Of coarse there are many perfect objects.
Haven't you ever drawn a "perfect" circle? Although, I suppose one could see that as being "ideal".
Or a hammer being the "perfect" tool to drive a nail?
Expand your mind, and the rest will follow.

Sweetsidney

A perfect circle is only theoretical, maybe not in mathematics.
A hammer can always be improved, even after the improvement you can call it a new tool as it differentiates
 
A perfect circle is only theoretical, maybe not in mathematics.
A hammer can always be improved, even after the improvement you can call it a new tool as it differentiates

It would still be a hammer. And still the "perfect" tool for the job. Even if that hammer was a rock.

Sweetsidney
 
Legit reasons to pick a Class/Spec:
- Enjoy the Class and its playstyle.
- Want to fill out a certain roll for your Guild/Friends etc.
- You want to try it out.
- Want to make one just for the hell of it/Boredom.

Bad reasons to pick a Class/Spec:
- Because they are OP at the current time.
- Because a Patch just came out, buffing all their main Abilities by 40% +.
- Because people get real pissed when you play them.
- So I can get my revenge on those skilled twinkers that play weaker Classes then me and beat me all the time.
Legit question:

I rolled a BM monk to use when the enemy was playing them as well. (Sort of an evening force.) But I ended up liking monk for the playstyle (I would still play it if it got nerfed, probably more than I play it now) Would you consider that acceptable? :p


Though, I gotta admit, there is a strong satisfaction when you're able to solo 3-5 ppl because guard is just that OP. It makes you feel like you're way better than you actually are XD
 
Nah I think you're fine.

Just by how you phrased your question, you do not come across as an FOTM guy.

If you like the playstyle genuinely thats ok with me.

And I also don't think me or anyone should be the judge of your guilt, but yourself, if you know you're playing the Class with bad intent you can convince anyone, but not yourself.

Another legit reason to roll an OP class that I didn't put on the list:
- To have an OP Class as backup to use as an evening force when your faction is having a really bad day.

As I said myself I have a GF'ed 29 Enhancement Shaman that is pretty OP, so I only bring it out when Horde is getting owned by Alliance premades or just OP comps in general.
 

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