How much of a disadvantage are you in if you make a twink now?(pre legion gear)

[potterfotter]

Hi!

I was wondering, how much of a disadvantage are you in if you make a twink right now, when you cant get certain GF items, pre legion items etc.

I'd like to get back into twinking, i had twinks back in vanilla+tbc.

Also how much of a change is it twinking now compared to back in vanilla/tbc?

Cheers!

 

[necroaqua]

Most pieces matter very little. Take the rogue in my sig.

• Felshroud vest has 8agi/12stam/5crit/5verse vs scaled Gloomshroud at 9agi/9stam/6crit. Since 1 agi is about 2.5 verse, the invasion gear is about 2.5 verse and 3 stam better at the cost of 1 crit. And stam is pretty meh for rogues. The BG crate with adaptable might actually be better than it.
  
• Felshroud gloves have 5agi/8stam/4crit/4verse. Gloves of the fang are 7agi/7stam, which are actually more straight up damage than mine. Serpentis gloves are 5agi/7stam/4verse, so a difference of 1stam/4crit.
• Trailblazer boots are 10agi/9stam, which is pretty decent. Its a 3agi/2stam difference of feet of the lynx.
• Signet of argus is a sidegrade. I gain 1 agi/1stam over my other ring, which is basically made up for by the 2-3 verse you can get. The argus ring might actually be worse.
  
• Mainhand weapon is ilvl 30 over the ilvl 25 BG crate weapon. This is probably the biggest one for melee attackers due to weapon damage.

So the difference tends to be a few stats for each "ideal" piece. Some are only sidegrades or trade stam/secondaries for pure primary stat. Imagine someone who is 5-10 ilvls above you at endgame. Theyve got slightly better gear, but skill and class knowledge can easily mean the lower ilvl person wins in fights.

Twinking is in a lot of ways much easier, with exp locking, gear scaling, and most enchants being pretty easy. You can get a new toon ready to play within a single night. And then figure out if you like the class before commiting to maxing engineering/alchemy and farming the BG crate gear.

 

[Punchy]

It might be a big deal for arenas or duels, but when you’ve got a proper 10v10 or 15v15 a few points of stats up or down isn’t that huge of a difference.

 

[Bestworld]

Depends what class you want to play also. Some classes main BiS (like boomkin/rdruid, MW and ele/rsham) is the fang / slitherscale set for instance, which alone gives you a huge fucking boost to your main stat.

Some of the classes where GF'd BiS is most notable are classes like warriors/rets (Emil's Brand etc.), rogues (legion invasion, screechers belt etc.), mages (inferno robe etc.), every other class is basically on par.

You can compete just fine with non-gf'd gear currently.

 

[Merlin]

actually i cant find myself to agree with what everyone said .. there is a difference and that difference can be felt significantly .. even 1 extra points on the primary stat of each item is amplified at lvl19, 2 points would be worse .. those who are using eg. BlackWidow band can easily testify .. it is not the 10 ilvl = 1% thing .. definitely not, the total dmg between twinks of both side at the end of game can be seen on the score chart .. it is not 1% .. it is not even 10% .. it goes all the way up to 30% .. i am talking about twinks vs twinks results in bg, not talking about the normal players. melee class you cant compare fairly between if the healers on either side is bad the melee will not get much output .. a good example to use will be the resto/balance druids, these are the people who deals dmg behind their team and rarely get into direct fights .. you can check out their total dmg output and do a comparison (horde twink druid vs ally twink druid) and know why some are doing a lot more (i use a lot more cos its not 10 ilvl difference = 1% more dmg) .. most of the time it comes down to their gears only .. not skill

 

[Psilocybine]

If you rolled a toon right now, you could have a decent twink in a matter of days. Its more about having enchants.

 

[Sketchbag]

Not that big of a gap at all... luckily the majority with gf'd gear have gf'd bad habits to go with!

 

[Allybeboba]

I have ditched all but a couple of my BiS grandfathered pieces on my toons because new pieces are better. Practically everyone one of my characters have grandfathered year. Some were in full warforged legion gear. Even changed professions several times to what I consider BiS over the years. Most expansions bring changes for the lowbies as well.
At any rate, a couple stat points shouldn’t keep you from playing in the lower brackets. Those stat points are easily made up by correctly enchanting your gear and using consumable buffs(which many people skimp on).

/cheers

 

[Punchy]

Skill>Gear..... but skill+gear>skill.
Twinking is obviously not what the game is designed or intended for, but I think its great that Blizz is supporting it this expansion by opening up xpoff queues etc. In my experience haven't noticed a huge advantage against the legion geared players (I usually only see one out of a dozen that have it anyways). They aren't Gods, they still bleed, all it takes is some common WoW knowledge, focus/stun their healer , burst nukem down, just basic teamwork. IMO, I'd rather queue with some half geared seasoned arena vets than a bunch of 12 y/o back peddlers in fel armor.

 

[Vianco]

actually i cant find myself to agree with what everyone said .. there is a difference and that difference can be felt significantly .. even 1 extra points on the primary stat of each item is amplified at lvl19, 2 points would be worse .. those who are using eg. BlackWidow band can easily testify .. it is not the 10 ilvl = 1% thing .. definitely not, the total dmg between twinks of both side at the end of game can be seen on the score chart .. it is not 1% .. it is not even 10% .. it goes all the way up to 30% .. i am talking about twinks vs twinks results in bg, not talking about the normal players. melee class you cant compare fairly between if the healers on either side is bad the melee will not get much output .. a good example to use will be the resto/balance druids, these are the people who deals dmg behind their team and rarely get into direct fights .. you can check out their total dmg output and do a comparison (horde twink druid vs ally twink druid) and know why some are doing a lot more (i use a lot more cos its not 10 ilvl difference = 1% more dmg) .. most of the time it comes down to their gears only .. not skill

Based on scoreboards you conclude that gf'd gear does 30% more dmg than current avaible gear? you are loooost.

@OP you won't feel gear difference. I actually think adaptable gear from crates are better than most of the gf'd gear anyway.

 

[Merlin]

Based on scoreboards you conclude that gf'd gear does 30% more dmg than current avaible gear? you are loooost.

@OP you won't feel gear difference. I actually think adaptable gear from crates are better than most of the gf'd gear anyway.

i dont mean solely gf gears .. i mean the best piece for each slot .. the thread here, some players are saying if you are not getting the best gear it doesnt mean much .. my opinion is nothing but the best, every single piece

 

[Zisa]

I started twinking at the tail end of legion, so none of my toons have gfed gear. I'm sure that I'm not a particularly great player either compared to many on the site, but even so it isn't difficult for me to compete or wind up near the top in bg's just being geared with current bis items from Necroaqua's awesome 19's gearing guide. You might feel the stat difference more in arenas or dueling where it can turn into a you vs them thing, but I wouldn't be discouraged at all, especially in a bg setting.

 

[Vianco]

i dont mean solely gf gears .. i mean the best piece for each slot .. the thread here, some players are saying if you are not getting the best gear it doesnt mean much .. my opinion is nothing but the best, every single piece

The thread is about how much in a disadvantage one would be in, if the person doesn't have pre legion gear

 

[necroaqua]

i dont mean solely gf gears .. i mean the best piece for each slot .. the thread here, some players are saying if you are not getting the best gear it doesnt mean much .. my opinion is nothing but the best, every single piece

If your goal is to build the perfect twink, but never actually pvp - then you're already too late and you still most likely missed several grandfathered pieces because it was a crapshoot with what stayed good or was bad and became good.

For most people, they intend to gear a toon up to play, not put in a museum.

Like Bestworld mentioned, there are a few GFd pieces that actually can make a significant difference. I'm sure theres a few more that are extremely rare (like, maybe 1-2 twinks in the world have them still) - but these are the "big" ones in my mind.

* Emil's Brand (ilvl 32) - Much higher ilvl weapon and lots of str. Probably the biggest difference one will see. At 19, Fury/Arms/Ret aren't too OP, so even with one of these, they don't become a god or anything though.
* Inferno Robe - Tons of int, but no stam/secondaries. Really only useful on mage, lock and shadowpriest in my mind. Disc/Holy (and maybe locks) would actually prefer a balanced piece with stam/verse.
* Black widow band - Lots of int, but no stam/secondaries. A tradeoff for casters who want to go full glass cannon. There are still a few floating around unbound, but they are very expensive and no more of them will exist. Honestly I don't like this item except maybe on an arcane mage or glass cannon opening set on a boomkin. Switching from Green Lens to Spellpower Goggles Extreme Plus gives way more int and is available to everyone.
* +13 spellpower to bracers - significant SP increase, but the bracers that they were put on are likely not good.
* AGM -

Most of the other pieces that are good are a few stats different. Most of the legion gear is replaced by good rolls on BG crate gear.

So in a mirror duel, GFd gear might make a big difference. But 99% of the time, class matchup, positioning, skill, proc RNG, and individual actions are going to decide a fight before GFd gears makes a difference.

 

[Dcm]

I started twinking at the tail end of legion, so none of my toons have gfed gear. I'm sure that I'm not a particularly great player either compared to many on the site, but even so it isn't difficult for me to compete or wind up near the top in bg's just being geared with current bis items from Necroaqua's awesome 19's gearing guide. You might feel the stat difference more in arenas or dueling where it can turn into a you vs them thing, but I wouldn't be discouraged at all, especially in a bg setting.

why are u using my sig lol

 

[Merlin]

damn .. thats bad news .. every single of my 5 surv hunters had a lvl32 emil on it, but not my pally .. sad, the str is useless on a hunter now

luckily i still have 8 pcs of blackwidow band in my storage

 

[Zisa]

why are u using my sig lol

You're the second person to ask me that lol, there's some kind of glitch with my sig apparently...it was showing the other persons sig when they looked at it, but it showed up different for their friend when he checked it. If you get someone else to check it, it'll show up different for them too I bet. To me it just looks like my normal sig.

Can you or anyone else direct me to a mod that might be able to fix it?

 

[artonkn]

You're the second person to ask me that lol, there's some kind of glitch with my sig apparently...it was showing the other persons sig when they looked at it, but it showed up different for their friend when he checked it. If you get someone else to check it, it'll show up different for them too I bet. To me it just looks like my normal sig.

Can you or anyone else direct me to a mod that might be able to fix it?

wtf thats my sig. reported

 

[Allybeboba]

i dont mean solely gf gears .. i mean the best piece for each slot .. the thread here, some players are saying if you are not getting the best gear it doesnt mean much .. my opinion is nothing but the best, every single piece

Many “BiS” pieces that people wear are just so they can stroke their own ego my friend. (why do people worry about what other people think them in video games anyway?) Much of the grandfathered gear isn’t BiS any more.

/cheers