nobody uses commas to space groups of three digits anymore, the internationally recognised way is just a space. Also the portuguese, spanish and some latin america places (i think) use commas. I find it wierd though, i just want a decimal point.
Hit Rating Cracked
- Thread starter Rayu
- Start date
Falaris
OG
One thing Im curious about, is you didnt factor in procs in your analysis. I know its probably close to impossible to factor in fiery/LS procs into the picture, but I think its safe to say the more hit you have, the more chances you have to proc your PPM enchants. Also, DW spec is far from bad in a high hit rating build.
squidmagnet
OG
The Japanese use periods and commas that way too. I had a Japanese client insisting I file papers with the US patent office to correct their patent number by replacing the commas with periods. They were really pissed at the "screw up" on our end. It was hilarious, but only to patent law geeks.
curleypwnsu said:
You are only right from a dps PoV, from a reliablity PoV its fail.
Edit: also before the yellow hit cap hit rating is worth more than it is after the hit cap, so you are not necessarily correct about the dps PoV.
curleypwnsu said:
It is a big deal when over capping isnt a problem. You are sacrificing a small amount of reliability for a small amount of dps. When something misses it can potentially be game breaking whereas 0.3dps or w/e it is will never be game breaking.
Rayu
OG
Hit rating adds to the unknown-by-many 'reliability' stat as Kore said. Don't forget this factor. Would you rather have a machine that produces a lot but makes mistakes that can be crucial to the entire process or would you want it to make a little less but at a 100% success rate? I know what I'd pick.
A missed hit on a bandaging target will require you to hit 250 or 500 more, you'll need a lot of AP to compensate for that.
A missed hit on a bandaging target will require you to hit 250 or 500 more, you'll need a lot of AP to compensate for that.
i can easily answer where the commas came from, back then we didn't use computers and on a piece of paper, sometimes people used dots or commas to separate numbers by group of thousands. now with the whole computer thing, many many things are changing on the numbers.
in canada, i have been thought to use commas for thousands and the dot for decimals.
i'm canadian french by the way !
as for the hit rating thing... it makes sens, rogues do most of their damage as white damage and barely have any yellow real damagers at that level. unlike warriors or pallies who do most of their damage yellow, though pallies tends to use white damage more then warriors.
in canada, i have been thought to use commas for thousands and the dot for decimals.
i'm canadian french by the way !
as for the hit rating thing... it makes sens, rogues do most of their damage as white damage and barely have any yellow real damagers at that level. unlike warriors or pallies who do most of their damage yellow, though pallies tends to use white damage more then warriors.
Ramune said:
Before cap hit rating is the absolute shizzle. Best dps stat you can find.
After cap its pointless.
No need for maths.
Rayu
OG
Kore nametooshort said:
Confirmed. I'll make an exact calculation for you so you know how many AP equals 1 hit rating for a warrior up until the cap in terms of DPS if you give me a Recount print of a few BGs where you play like you normally do. Since warriors also use stances it might be extra important you give me 1 Recount print per stance.
Trespasser
OG
Nice calculations Rayu. These are the same formula's that started me to work on the rogue calculator.
Also I found a small error in our calculations regarding the dps that's coming from sinister strike (you also have one opening bracket to much or one closing bracket to little, but I don't count that as a error).
You use this formula:
((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)
And as weapon damage you use 55 however this is incorrect for shadowfang as you seem to be assuming it always uses the top end damage but this is not true. You also forgot to take the 4-8shadow damage into account that also count as weapon damage. The average weapon damage for shadowfang therefore is actually (29+4+55+8)/2=48.
Then there is also the fact that 1hit rating is not 0,47 hit but actually 26/55 or 0,472727etc or for a better use in this formula 26/5500
So the actual calculations would be as following:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + (((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,73 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) = 12,46 DPS
Total:
40,73 + 12,46 = 53,19 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + (((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,50 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) = 12,46 DPS
Total:
40,50 + 12,46 = 52,96 DPS
The difference between this and your calculations is minimal but it makes hit a tiny amount better.
Now some extra calculations for those that use dual wield spec, fiery or both while taking into account armor.
With dual wield spec:
shadowfang MH and wingblade OH
DPS = (Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500))
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,73 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) = 18,70 DPS
Total:
40,73 + 18,70 = 59,43 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,50 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (15 * 0,0047)) = 18.69 DPS
Total:
40,50 + 18,69 = 59,19 DPS
So the difference between 4hit and 10AP is still about the same with 59.19 and 59.43 when having dual wield spec. So still about 4hit=10AP
With dual fiery
Now for fiery we first need some extra math. We need to know the proc rate for fiery on both shadowfang and wingblade.
For [item]Shadowfang[/item]
For [item]Wingblade[/item]
So now we get
Main hand:
DPS = (Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * main hand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
Offhand:
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) * offhand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 51,12 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 19,61 DPS
Total:
51,12 + 19,61 = 70,73 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 51,10 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 19,77 DPS
Total:
51,10 + 19,77 = 70,87 DPS
So what do we see here. We now see that the extra hit rating increased our fiery procs enough to surpass the loss of AP. So with dual fiery 4 hit rating is more then 10 AP.
Now lets look at something else.
Dual fiery, Dual spec and armor reduction
Lets take a spec with dual wield spec and dual fiery and lets take armor into account this time.
The average armor for a twink in Blackout according to Bigbullox's spreadsheet is 754 armor.
Now we will first calculate how much armor damage mitigation that gives.
It uses the following formula:
DR% = Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * AttackLevel)
So we get: 754/(754+400+85*19) = 0,2723
So now we need to use the following formula to calculate the dps:
Mainhand:
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - DR%) + ((0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * main hand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
Offhand:
DPS = (((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500))) * (1 - DR%) + (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) * offhand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = ((17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - 0,2723) + ((0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 40,03 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * (1 - 0,2723) + (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 20,75 DPS
Total:
40,03 + 20,75 = 60,78 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = ((17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - 0,2723) + ((0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 40,06 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * (1 - 0,2723) + (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 20,91 DPS
Total:
40,06 + 20,91 = 60,97 DPS
Though the difference still isn't to big we can now clearly see that 4 hit rating is more then 10AP. This is because the extra hits you will land will proc fiery which is unaffected by armor as where you normal hits are affected by armor.
I am to tired to type it out but if you are up against a FC (which have around 1550 armor) the results between 10extra AP and 4 extra hit are as followed:
11hit rating + 10 extra AP: 51.12
15hit rating + 0 extra AP: 51.36
This means that the more armor your enemy has the more the value of hit rating becomes. (and a good rogue will most of the time be on the EFC so effected by armor a lot)
Also I found a small error in our calculations regarding the dps that's coming from sinister strike (you also have one opening bracket to much or one closing bracket to little, but I don't count that as a error).
You use this formula:
((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)
And as weapon damage you use 55 however this is incorrect for shadowfang as you seem to be assuming it always uses the top end damage but this is not true. You also forgot to take the 4-8shadow damage into account that also count as weapon damage. The average weapon damage for shadowfang therefore is actually (29+4+55+8)/2=48.
Then there is also the fact that 1hit rating is not 0,47 hit but actually 26/55 or 0,472727etc or for a better use in this formula 26/5500
So the actual calculations would be as following:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + (((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,73 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) = 12,46 DPS
Total:
40,73 + 12,46 = 53,19 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + (((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,50 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) = 12,46 DPS
Total:
40,50 + 12,46 = 52,96 DPS
The difference between this and your calculations is minimal but it makes hit a tiny amount better.
Now some extra calculations for those that use dual wield spec, fiery or both while taking into account armor.
With dual wield spec:
shadowfang MH and wingblade OH
DPS = (Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500))
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,73 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) = 18,70 DPS
Total:
40,73 + 18,70 = 59,43 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) = 40,50 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (15 * 0,0047)) = 18.69 DPS
Total:
40,50 + 18,69 = 59,19 DPS
So the difference between 4hit and 10AP is still about the same with 59.19 and 59.43 when having dual wield spec. So still about 4hit=10AP
With dual fiery
Now for fiery we first need some extra math. We need to know the proc rate for fiery on both shadowfang and wingblade.
For [item]Shadowfang[/item]
Code:
60/2.7(swingspeed)=22,22swings per minute
6/22,22*100=27% this is the proc chance for fiery on shadowfangFor [item]Wingblade[/item]
Code:
60/2.2=27,27swings per minute
6/27,27*100=22%So now we get
Main hand:
DPS = (Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * main hand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
Offhand:
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) * offhand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 51,12 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 19,61 DPS
Total:
51,12 + 19,61 = 70,73 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = (17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20) + ((0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 51,10 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 19,77 DPS
Total:
51,10 + 19,77 = 70,87 DPS
So what do we see here. We now see that the extra hit rating increased our fiery procs enough to surpass the loss of AP. So with dual fiery 4 hit rating is more then 10 AP.
Now lets look at something else.
Dual fiery, Dual spec and armor reduction
Lets take a spec with dual wield spec and dual fiery and lets take armor into account this time.
The average armor for a twink in Blackout according to Bigbullox's spreadsheet is 754 armor.
Now we will first calculate how much armor damage mitigation that gives.
It uses the following formula:
DR% = Armor / (Armor + 400 + 85 * AttackLevel)
So we get: 754/(754+400+85*19) = 0,2723
So now we need to use the following formula to calculate the dps:
Mainhand:
DPS = ((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + ((Attack Power / 14) * 2,4 + Weapon Damage + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - DR%) + ((0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * main hand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
Offhand:
DPS = (((Weapon DPS + AP/14) * 0,5) * (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500))) * (1 - DR%) + (0,76 + (Hit Rating * 26/5500)) * offhand fiery proc chance * fiery damage
With 11 rating and 10 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = ((17,8 + 210/14) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + ((210 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - 0,2723) + ((0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 40,03 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 210/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * (1 - 0,2723) + (0,76 + (11 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 20,75 DPS
Total:
40,03 + 20,75 = 60,78 DPS
With 15 hit rating and 0 extra attack power:
Main Hand:
DPS = ((17,8 + 200/14) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + ((200 / 14) * 2,4 + 48 + 10) * (3/20)) * (1 - 0,2723) + ((0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) + 3/20) * 0,27 * 40 = 40,06 DPS
Off Hand:
DPS = ((15,7 + 200/14) * 0,75) * (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * (1 - 0,2723) + (0,76 + (15 * 26/5500)) * 0,22 * 40 = 20,91 DPS
Total:
40,06 + 20,91 = 60,97 DPS
Though the difference still isn't to big we can now clearly see that 4 hit rating is more then 10AP. This is because the extra hits you will land will proc fiery which is unaffected by armor as where you normal hits are affected by armor.
I am to tired to type it out but if you are up against a FC (which have around 1550 armor) the results between 10extra AP and 4 extra hit are as followed:
11hit rating + 10 extra AP: 51.12
15hit rating + 0 extra AP: 51.36
This means that the more armor your enemy has the more the value of hit rating becomes. (and a good rogue will most of the time be on the EFC so effected by armor a lot)
