Here's an idea.

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]How about the 24's get their own forum?[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]f2p's are allowed to do the following: Post in threads that are started for 24's by 24's, (Why did you roll a 24?) then derail them, butthurt in them, moan, cry, flame, troll, and totally destroy the threads until they're locked.[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]But they're are allowed to have their own forum and be protected by the mods who will "severely moderate" the section? If this wedge that is driven between 20-24's is ever be filled or prevented from getting bigger, then the 20-24 section needs to be the main one and the f2p board removed. If not, then finish it off and drive the final nail into the coffin and give the 24's their own board and "severely moderate" it against f2p's that want to come in and ruin things for the 24's.[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]The way it stands now, f2p's are running roughshod over the boards on 20-24 twinking in the bracket. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Make it happen or stop f2p's from destroying threads about 24's or those that are primarily for 24's.[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]And if it needs to be made any clearer - Make a thread about 24's and see how long it takes for a herd of f2p's to come in and complain about how it's not fair, or the majority of 24's do this, and any other statement that's been made 50 times in the last thread that said remotely anything about 24's.[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]Trolling? No, just sick of hypocrital behavior and double standards.[/font]

 

[Inkobah]

You must be new here. Because if you were here when the F2P phenomenon started you would have noticed that they were all crying about 24s trolling and ruining their threads. The fact is F2P think we're partial to 24s and 24s think we're partial to F2P...but we're partial to neither. The fact is we're gonna stomp out trolls from either side and every side. Just report threads that you think we need to look at and we will go through and look at it ASAP.



This may help to clear things up a bit as well: We created a forum for F2P to discuss anything regarding F2P (like guides, gear, etc.). This section is off limits to 24s since there's absolutely no reason for a 24 to discuss those things. Then we created a forum for the 20-24 bracket (which includes F2P and P2P alike). This section is for all things pertaining to the 20-24 bracket (like strategies, BG discussions, etc.).



-Ink

 

[Cheruhbim]

You must be new here.

-Ink

I've quoted the important stuff if the above post is TLDR.

 

[24nubsdie]

hmm alot of the troll threads in the f2p were moved to the 20-24 sections and alot were deleted i recommend you read



from

http://www.twinkinfo...r__all__st__240



to page 3



you ll start finding crap like

http://www.twinkinfo...mes-last-night/

and

http://www.twinkinfo...978#entry312978

and so on

this was before you joined fyi

 

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]I'm not new here, I was here to see a lot of trolling, I just didn't make an account because I was using the guides to make twinks and saw a few constructive posts made by known 19 twinks. (That's what ultimately encouraged me to make an account and start posting, to contact 24's) The point I'm making is that there are only 2 groups in the bracket. 20's and 24's. Since 24's are more or less outlawed in the f2p section, then why don't the 24's have their section and outlaw the 20's from posting in it? As I said, the wedge is already there and it's getting bigger every day when 20's post in this section (which mainly seems to be destroying threads involving 24's, or just flat out crying about them/beating a dead horse.)[/font]

This section is off limits to 24s since there's absolutely no reason for a 24 to discuss those things.

[font=times new roman,times,serif]Then how about instead of locking threads, ban the trolls, delete their comments so that the 24's can continue to post and communicate? It boils down to this: 24 makes a post, f2p comes in and destroys it, thread locked. [/font]

 

[24nubsdie]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]I'm not new here, I was here to see a lot of trolling, I just didn't make an account because I was using the guides to make twinks and saw a few constructive posts made by known 19 twinks. (That's what ultimately encouraged me to make an account and start posting, to contact 24's) The point I'm making is that there are only 2 groups in the bracket. 20's and 24's. Since 24's are more or less outlawed in the f2p section, then why don't the 24's have their section and outlaw the 20's from posting in it? As I said, the wedge is already there and it's getting bigger every day when 20's post in this section (which mainly seems to be destroying threads involving 24's, or just flat out crying about them/beating a dead horse.)[/font]





[font=times new roman,times,serif]Then how about instead of locking threads, ban the trolls, delete their comments so that the 24's can continue to post and communicate? It boils down to this: 24 makes a post, f2p comes in and destroys it, thread locked. [/font]

ofcourse if you feel like some f2ps are derailing threads into 20 vs 24s we can always make a thread in the tavern to discuss f2p 20s vs 24s civilly with some ground rules(such as no flaming) if the mods allow it. Everytime a f2p 20 trys to derail a thread you can always link this tavern thread to them vice versa. Since most f2ps derail in into f2p 20s vs 24s.

 

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]If the mods will allow it, I'm all for it. Any ideas on how and when to set it up?[/font]

 

[Rivfader]

Since your partial to analogies:



You claim that f2p player do 24 threads what 24s do to the (mostly) f2p bracket?

 

[24nubsdie]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]If the mods will allow it, I'm all for it. Any ideas on how and when to set it up?[/font]

well firstly we could set up the topic in the tavern called something like "f2p 20s vs 24s"

then lay out a few ground rules such as no flaming, no insulting a person or a group in general. Basically to keep the discussion civil.

Everytime someone tries to derail the a thread in to f2p 20s vs 24s you could link them to this thread to keep all the stuff in one thread.

if the mods allow it i suppose. Kore is the super moderator here, i ll pm him this idea.

 

[24nubsdie]

Since your partial to analogies:



You claim that f2p player do 24 threads what 24s do to the (mostly) f2p bracket?

this sort of stuff for the tavern thread i suppose

 

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]Your logic is flawed. It's not the f2p bracket. It's the 20-24 bracket.



While the f2p's do have a right to post in the 20-24 section, they should stay out of the 24 threads, just as 24's are to stay out of the f2p threads.[/font]

 

[Rivfader]

I don't understand why 20 v 24 discussions should be relegated to the tavern, the issue only concerns the bracket this forum represents. The tavern is there for twinks of all bracjets and account status'.



Lithogen is correct in that trolls should be banned and posts should be deleted, but civil discussion should be allowed to remain.



It is my hope that through discussion we can encourage those 24s who truely want a competetive bracket to roll f2p. Admittedly there's not much we can do to sway the minds of those few bads who's only intention is to steamroll people at a severe level and gear disadvantage, but at least then they will be unable to hide what they really are.

 

[Lithogen]

well firstly we could set up the topic in the tavern called something like "f2p 20s vs 24s"

then lay out a few ground rules such as no flaming, no insulting a person or a group in general. Basically to keep the discussion civil.

Everytime someone tries to derail the a thread in to f2p 20s vs 24s you could link them to this thread to keep all the stuff in one thread.

if the mods allow it i suppose

[font=times new roman,times,serif]How about the ground rules are laid down in the opening thread, at the very top for anyone who posts to see? This is what I have mind, just an example.[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]F2P's vs 24's[/font]



[font=times new roman,times,serif]Rules:[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- No flaming, trolling, derailing of the thread.[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- Posting is to remain civil.[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- Posting is to be done in a point/counterpoint manner.[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- You answer a question then, then you ask a question.[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- New questions cannot be asked until the previous one has been answered. Do not cross post, if you ask a question, stay with it until it's answered.[/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]- Only registered posters can be involved, and you must state whether you are a F2P/ or 24 before asking a question.[/font]

 

[Inkobah]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]Your logic is flawed. It's not the f2p bracket. It's the 20-24 bracket.[/font]



While the f2p's do have a right to post in the 20-24 section, they should stay out of the 24 threads, just as 24's are to stay out of the f2p threads.

24s don't have to stay out of threads started in the 20-24 section...just the F2P section. What you're not getting is that the F2P section is only for things that only apply to F2P...anything else is to go in the 20-24 section. We don't need to take things to the Tavern because if it applies to 20-24s then it should be in the 20-24s section.



You may not be new but you have to consider that you have a very subjective view on the issue as a 24 player...and F2P players have a very subjective view as well from the opposite end. You're welcome to have your subjective views but objectively speaking if it's the 20-24 bracket then any player in that bracket should be able to post in any thread in the section. If there are trolls and flamers we'll deal w/ them no matter what viewpoint they have on this issue or any issue.



-Ink



Edit: And yes there are some threads we should delete posts and leave open...but sometimes closing is the best option too.

 

[24nubsdie]

good idea but there are some people from both sides who have a f2p 20 and a 24 they too should be allowed to express their views.



edit: inkobath do you think this is a good thing i support this idea of a f2p 20 vs 24 debate(with a few ground rules) in the tavern. This would really end some mutual antagonism as f2p 20s would see the reason why 24s made 24s and 24s would understand why f2p 20s made 20s.

 

[Rivfader]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]Your logic is flawed. It's not the f2p bracket. It's the 20-24 bracket.



While the f2p's do have a right to post in the 20-24 section, they should stay out of the 24 threads, just as 24's are to stay out of the f2p threads.[/font]

Notice the "(mostly)".



Citing one of your examples, f2ps posting in the "why I rolled a 24" thread. What direction would you expect that to go? Notice that the most common answer was "hunters". I think it's pretty legitimate to point out that an arms race only exacerbates the problems and further marginalizes the community that is respobsible for the activity of the bracket.



The other thread that was closed was a new player asking why people would roll a 24 when it gave them a clearly unfair advantage, again that concerns the bracket as a whole and not just 24s.

 

[Lithogen]

but sometimes closing is the best option too.

[font=times new roman,times,serif]If a thread is locked because it's been derailed or trolled to the point of no return, can we create a new thread and pick back up on the highlights that involve effective communication? Basically, quoting the positive posts and responding them to keep the venue open and progressive.[/font]

 

[24nubsdie]

Notice the "(mostly)".



Citing one of your examples, f2ps posting in the "why I rolled a 24" thread. What direction would you expect that to go? Notice that the most common answer was "hunters". I think it's pretty legitimate to point out that an arms race only exacerbates the problems and further marginalizes the community that is respobsible for the activity of the bracket.



The other thread that was closed was a new player asking why people would roll a 24 when it gave them a clearly unfair advantage, again that concerns the bracket as a whole and not just 24s.

I would say both f2p 20s(i got to admit i didnt help much by fueling the fire) and 24s were responsible for the threads being closed.

[font=times new roman,times,serif]If a thread is locked because it's been derailed or trolled to the point of no return, can we create a new thread and pick back up on the highlights that involve effective communication? Basically, quoting the positive posts and responding them to keep the venue open and progressive.[/font]

Another reason to make the tavern thread for both f2p 20s and 24s to understand each other. And to keep f2p 20s vs 24s stuff out of the 20-24 section so threads dont get derailed.

 

[Rivfader]

Any discussion about the 20-24 bracket should take place in the forum dedicated to it. I think it is unreasonable to ask for some heavily moderated thread in the tavern that probably won't accomplish much anyway.



I'm already noticing a shift in moderation (hopefully fueled by the increased civility between the two communities) that they are at least turning a blind eye to most 20 v 24 discussion. I get the impression that CIHC is just a little eager in executing his newly bestowed moderator privilages.



Edit: Lithogen, I just noticed that you tagge this post with "fair play". I find it ironic that a 24 is asking for fair play. Tell me, do you think that it is fair play to twink out a toon with a massive gear and level advantage over the vast majority of opponents they are likely to face?

 

[Lithogen]

[font=times new roman,times,serif]Rivfader - I expected it to be a decent thread since most of the hate and trolling was over with early. I was shocked by that. I had really hoped that smoke was beginning to clear and some headway made in the 20/24 issue.



Twinking is an arms race. It's to be the best, no matter the cost. Now it could be done with civility (but you and I both know that emotions are going to flare and it's going to get ugly) but how long can it last? How long will it take for people (both f2p's and 24's) to see that it's not going to change? (Barring something drastic from Blizzard.)



If anything, I would be happy if we could communicate without the same old crap stated by both sides. This is a game, it's supposed to be played to have fun, but nothing is ever perfect. I don't understand why some feel so victimized when they knew that 24's would show up, and keep complaining about it.



I'm not going to say "Can't we all just get along?" But can we at least discuss things without all the hate, the tired old sayings and trolling?[/font]