Great post that sums up the 19 bracket...

If people think that a few douchebags are ruining the bracket, the same goes with people like the OP posting this BS nonsense. You're only hurting the bracket by complaining about your own bad experience and thus when new 19s who wish to come over or those wanting to make 19s come to read posts to see how active we are, they will see that post and probably be scared away from the bracket. There will always be idiots and morons running around with epeens bigger than they actually should have. Quite frankly, most of those players who boast aren't the best in the bracket anyway. All I can say is, the bracket is still much alive and that's mostly due to joy and fun of Premades. Pugs nowadays are just the cherry top on a whip cream cake.
 
Llare said:
Dominating newbies shouldn't be/was never fun. WORKING TOGETHER with them was fun; helping and carrying them was the reason many people started twinking, for that god like feeling. Then people slowly realised "Hurrdurr i can 1shot dis guy".



The rare "wow!" occations really kept me twinking, like seeing a 4.3k buffed Druid practically walk through our team like it was nothing. Twinking slowly got more and more serious + popular; mainly for the wrong reasons. People got better and standards rose, deal with it.



I guess that's opinion based then? You can't make a statement about what's fun and what isn't that just makes you sound stuck up. I stated that it was my opinion, and in my personal opinion I liked the old twinking better, deal with it. And people didn't get better, people face other twinks. The standard has increased and I do agree to that, but you rarely see working together in the pug BG's these days. Premades on the other hand can be a blast, and I don't doubt that one bit. And I agree, the "wow" occasions were a fun time lol. But my opinion on twinking is purely based around the fact that Blizzard doesn't cater to twinks. You can call the XP off BG's a positive, or a negative, but when a class change is made, it's based around leveling a toon, or PVE/PVP at the level 80. Do you see Blizzard going "Oh hey! Hunters are too overpowered in the twink 19 bracket, lets nerf them!." Basically what i'm trying to say is that while twinking can be fun at times, I prefer the old twinking, and pvp at 80 because any class is, and was viable. My main is a rogue, and my favorite twink was a rogue and now many people don't even touch them because they really aren't great at 19. Sure, there are many exceptional players and i'm not saying there aren't, i'm saying I don't like the idea of a class being completely void. There are many scenarios where a class at 80 is underpowered, and Blizzard generally fixes them. That isn't the same case for twinks which is a major aspect that drives me away from twinking.
 
Signed up to chime in.



I agree with the OP. I've played with twinks off and on from before the 19 bracket and things just are not like they used to be at all. There have obviously been many changes through the years but all this new stuff recently (boa gear, domination of jumps/platforming, travel forms, lack of people playing due to bg xp) has made the bracket and twinking itself almost unrecognizable.



I recently started playing again (19 exclusively with higher levels for farming). I wont lie and say it was never fun because it was. It got old really fast though. I've never been one to care all the much for having perfect gear. I hate PVE and have not had a high level since 60 so boes were annoying. Annoying because most people will not even think of premading without "perfect" twinks no matter how good you may be.



Not saying that I am an elite player or even good for that matter. I never really cared all too much about that but I do enjoy the pvp aspect - actual challenges. IMO Pugs are and have always been the foundation of twinking. Like the OP said, if they fall apart then new people will stop playing. Someone can not be insta-A teamed never having played before if everyone is just premading... or well, they can but they would likely not be all too great.







As for the drama, that has always been there I guess. I don't really read the board or participate in the sad and juvenile discussions that happen far too often on forums or in gchats. I've even been swept up in it though and it's left a bad taste. For instance, I am/was in Fishing Buddies and I happened to be in the game Dray mentioned with the flag holding and such on my character Witch. That kind of play has always irked me and I never thought it could happen with a group like that but it did and it was disappointing to say the least. In the game, I just stood there for the remaining 15 minutes and tried not to say something id regret. I stayed around but it ended up just being the same ol same ol with a tight clique of maybe 7 players that pretty much looked down on everyone else in the guild. there were decent people no doubt but for the most part, not so much.



So, I've never been all too much for win at all costs or being the best. I just like playing and having fun (not at the expense of others) but even with a group that was supposed to be all about that, it was not happening.







I will probably check out the game again when Cat comes out since there seemed to be some interesting things that will make it fun again for at least a month maybe but as for right now, 19s are just a sad shell of what they were a few years ago. Which I think is really really sad because it was and could be great fun if the negative aspects were not so prevalent.
 
Rivfader said:
The ruin vent is there for a reason, use it.



Lastly, I will agree that we should be more welcoming and accomidating of new players, no new blood = dead bracket so spread some love around.



Too late. Fuck Ruin vent and everyone on it. There's a reason I don't PUG 19s anymore on my XP off toons.



~Shortngurly
 
WoW is crazy and takes up too much time and $. That's why you should all come play LoL with me :D
 
/sigh



Now Drayner has closed Draynerworld and put Twinkinfo up for sale. There was a time not too long ago I would have put up the money to keep these resources available, but my commitment to BIS twinking is no longer what it was.
 
Mazurati said:
WoW is crazy and takes up too much time and $. That's why you should all come play LoL with me :D



Prodigy plays more LoL than WoW.
 
For all of you who have given up, good job at letting the drama queens dictate your enjoyment in this game. It's an MMORPG, you get out of it what you put in, but hey no gonna tell you to do something you don't enjoy anymore
 
Rivfader said:
For all of you who have given up, good job at letting the drama queens dictate your enjoyment in this game. It's an MMORPG, you get out of it what you put in, but hey no gonna tell you to do something you don't enjoy anymore







You should give up, and come raid on your druid with me and painaid imo
 
Trolls are the least of many reasons people are drifting away from the bracket. But if people list several reasons and mention trolls, "trolls" is what people latch onto to discuss because it can so easily be dismissed by saying, "You can still have fun if you'd just ignore them! There, your problems with the bracket are solved." But quitting the bracket and telling the trolls, "BTW, go eff yourselves" is sort of like quitting a job you don't like to do something better and telling asshole co-workers what you REALLY think.



For all my friends who have quit twinking 19's (and yes, they have all quit twinking), it's been the "broken" feel of gameplay compared to what it used to be... the speed boosts, the taking away of leg armor, the general lack of class balance. You might say "no big deal" to these things, but that's just an opinion. In the opinion of some others, low stamina and lots of hunters = no fun, and no amount of saying, "Just use teamwork to work around it" is going to make them feel that it actually is fun. The things that initially attracted them to twinking are gone, and they don't WANT to adapt to something they simply don't enjoy. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



And saying, "They're making excuses because they're no good and can't hack it" is just silly. How many 19's legends have quit? Were they all "bad"? Not everyone is interested in suffering through something they find tedious just so they can proclaim themselves badasses. A lot of people play for FUN, not as some crutch to their self-esteem. And I think you'll find that "fun" is a very subjective thing.
 
if your going to quit then do it. stop bitching about it on the forums. the people that still want to play don't care.
 
Trolls are not the deciding factor. The problem lately, and it is a much bigger problem than past problems, is the shere monotony of play due to the low number of BGs that are running at one time, and the fact that everyone is now level 19. On any given night, one side or the other typically dominates, and everyone runs the same strategies game after game. So if you play all night, it's like playing the same game over and over again.



Compare that to the old days, when you had 12 BGs running, you never new what you were going to get. Even once in the BG, you could look at your teammates and the people on the other side and still have no idea how it was going to play out. That variability, that unpredictability, is what made twinking fun to me.



And that's why I PUG in the XP on BGs now in various brackets. And I see a LOT of others doing the same thing. It's not that we are no longer "twinking." It's that most of us are just doing it outside the XP off BGs now.
 
squidmagnet said:
And that's why I PUG in the XP on BGs now in various brackets. And I see a LOT of others doing the same thing. It's not that we are no longer "twinking." It's that most of us are just doing it outside the XP off BGs now.



Most =/= You and a few people you know.



Seems to me people are just moreover angry they can't faceroll their way to victory like they did vs players leveling in the bracket if you are "all" doing xp on bgs now.
 
So lets see why people believe the 19 bracket is bad right now.

- Graveyard Camping

- Drama

- Unskilled Players



People have always GY camped at 19 and in every other bracket. There is actually less GY camping then there was before the Ruin migration. Due to there being twink vs twink every battleground it is harder for people to GY camp.



Drama has always existed and will always exists. Every bracket has it and it's a part of the game. Cyclone, which used to be the power house for 19 was filled with drama. That is why Cyclone was so popular. The amount of competition that was built up from all the drama brought people to the battlegroup.



Complaining about unskilled players and "under geared" players being worse than they ever have is totally biased and untrue. Players have only improved in skill level and there are now only 19s and player's average gear has improved drastically.



In all honesty the 19 bracket is doing great. Players are complaining because of the attitude of other players in pugs. If you do not like how they act then don't talk to them or just put them on ignore.



In all honesty this whole Ruin migration XP-OFF phase has only been a positive to the 19 community. Everyone is in one pool and there are no longer low levels so it's always twink vs twink. This opens up the window for more premading guilds and more competitive pugs.



People who are complaining need to step up their game to compete with today's standards instead of QQing over the boards.
 
Pizza said:
So lets see why people believe the 19 bracket is bad right now.

- Graveyard Camping

- Drama

- Unskilled Players



People have always GY camped at 19 and in every other bracket. There is actually less GY camping then there was before the Ruin migration. Due to there being twink vs twink every battleground it is harder for people to GY camp.



Drama has always existed and will always exists. Every bracket has it and it's a part of the game. Cyclone, which used to be the power house for 19 was filled with drama. That is why Cyclone was so popular. The amount of competition that was built up from all the drama brought people to the battlegroup.



Complaining about unskilled players and "under geared" players being worse than they ever have is totally biased and untrue. Players have only improved in skill level and there are now only 19s and player's average gear has improved drastically.



In all honesty the 19 bracket is doing great. Players are complaining because of the attitude of other players in pugs. If you do not like how they act then don't talk to them or just put them on ignore.



In all honesty this whole Ruin migration XP-OFF phase has only been a positive to the 19 community. Everyone is in one pool and there are no longer low levels so it's always twink vs twink. This opens up the window for more premading guilds and more competitive pugs.



People who are complaining need to step up their game to compete with today's standards instead of QQing over the boards.



Very nice indeed ^_^ And what sort of team gets GY Camped in XP Off BGs anyways?
 
I have a solution to all our problems. Its a new macro someone from Bleeding Hollow shared with me. Its called the instant I-win button. The best part about this macro is you dont have to set it up, and it works even outside of wow, and on these very forums. Here is how to do it.



Any time a BG is going the wrong way, someone is talking shit to you and you dont have a comeback, hold the Alt button and hit F4.



GG and thanks to the hunter who showed me this wonderful new macro!



=)
 
Ertai said:
Prodigy plays more LoL than WoW.



srsly? Cirran and I have been playing LoL together for a month now and we need a solid 5 man team
 
Mazurati said:
srsly? Cirran and I have been playing LoL together for a month now and we need a solid 5 man team



Desh, Crusade, Cupid, Hato and I all play to varying degrees. We're still pretty bad but we're working on it.
 
I made my first twink last summer because I wanted to get better on my rogue in pvp and I hated being killed so easily in the bg's. It wasn't about dominating nubs, it was about rising to the challenge twinks provided. Since the xp was turned off I think the bg's are alot better. I see less bickering and more teamwork plus more balanced players.



I think alot of these complaints are related to maturity. You have older twinks and younger twinks, thats wow, you just can't let it get to you. Besides this is about competition so we all have egos, thats the nature of the beast.



I don't mind the addition of travel form, hunters counter that nicely. I just wish they would add more battlegrounds to play in and arena ratings with honor benefits like new gear choices. That way you don't have to spend a bunch of money on gear and time fishing for a silly hat or aquiring those damned arena trinkets. Better yet start all the classes at 19 with fixed gear so no improvements in that respect can be made. I just want to play for pvp, not wasting time getting gear or reaching level 80 then farming honor.
 

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