Gear / Spec Crafting (lvl 49 Holy Paladin)

[Healbotn]

Hello! This is my first time posting! I am new to the 40-49 bracket in Classic and have been enjoying playing my ‘K-mart twink’ Holy Paladin for the last month or so. Thanks @Jh2125 for getting me interested by promoting the bracket and providing gearing guides. This has been tremendously helpful.

I wanted to post a few observations from my short time here in the group specific to holy paly play. I am still learning my class / role (this is my first healer) and I would love to hear what others think.

1. I am not seeing many healadins. Granted I mostly pug, but it’s usually just me.
   
   
2. Despite being horribly undergeared (compared to actual twinks) and missing enchants, I feel I do quite well as a raid spot healer or in small skirmishes (2v2, 2v3). To make up for low Hp (and save on cost) I am simply using armor kits for the time being and have spec’d into Redoubt and Toughness. It usually takes a while for 1-2 melee to drag me down, while casters nuke me to dust (just like everybody else =D)
   
   
3. With all the min/maxing shaman and fire mages out there, I am finding caster burst damage very difficult to heal through, especially with dispel spam (negating most raid buffs and blessing of light). If two casters focus a target, I can usually get in 2-3 Flash of Light casts before it’s all over. More seasoned twinks actually have nature resist gear sets that they will throw on before engaging a shaman or when we see more than one que up. Melee is less of an issue with BoP available.
   
   
4. Regarding gearing Healadins, the emphasis in the bracket seems to be on stam / int (‘of the eagle’) with healing power as a distant 3rd, usually just coming from enchants and/or dungeon secondary stat bonuses. Mp5 is generally not included at all.

I am wondering whether more emphasis should be given to + healing, specifically to deal with bursty opposition comps (ie. most horde premades at this point). Despite my gear deficit, my healing power is actually on par with that achievable with the previously proposed lvl 49 BiS Holy Gear Set, so I figure even max-geared Holy Palys will similarly suffer with trying to heal through the caster burst dmg achievable at this character level. It goes without saying that 4.2k mana is not helpful if your team is dead before you have a chance to use it all.

Given dungeon drops are too precious to replace, that really only leaves green slot items. The inherent trade off appears to be that +healing BoE green drops are rare and do not come with +Stam like ‘of the eagle’ drops do. So you sacrifice +Stam and +Int for + Healing.

Even without the +healing BoE greens, it appears possible to almost double the +Healing available while maintaining ~3k Hp and 3.5k mana (you obviously lose armor as well). I’m not saying anyone should do this (not having a shield is a bridge too far for me), but I was wondering if anyone else has any other creative ways of working more +healing into the standard BiS gear set. For example, the ‘Green Lens of healing’ is a good work-around for me.

The lack of any Mp5 seems like a potential draw back too. Me having just one or two pieces of Mp5 gear has saved a number of allies in long, mana draining fights where the difference really came down to just 1 or 2 more Flash of Light casts. Grizler’s Hypertech Buckler gives + Int, +Stam, 4 Mp5, and has 200 more armor and a higher block rating than Formidable Crest of the Eagle. When enchanted with lesser block it pairs really well with 5/5 Redoubt.

What does everyone else think? Is there value outside of the standard +Int / +Stam gearing structure for trying to heal through the current, caster burst dps Meta in the 40-49 bracket? Or is Flash of Light too fast a spell cast for stacking + healing, since you only receive ~40% of the stat’s benefit?

I have included links to gear sets below and a comparison BiS list for Holy Paladins from the 30-39 bracket (Phase 5) where stacking +healing seems a viable option:


Holy BiS (40-49 bracket) - courtesy of Jh2125. I added a pretty standard Holy/Prot talent build:
(HP 3322 / Mana 4250 / Healing 175)
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/xtMn266puBsLKzy88RivgL

Holy BiS (30-39 bracket) - courtesy of Outofspace:
(HP 2167 / Mana 2116 / Healing 305)
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/9rzzrUR6Ktpf4MAN98H9i2

Holy Healing > Stam = Int > Armor build - gear set just to show +healing options available for all slots (other than rare drop BoE +healing greens):
(HP 2962 / Mana 3673 / Healing 322)
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/f5qEpUVwfPPpP29XqDhQd5

My current gear / spec (a work in progress):
(HP 2412 / Mana 3244 / Healing 162)
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/u1U3TKUqFXTuroWznXKht7

 

[GnarFromLB]

I saw this post and I made an account just to comment on this. So this is my first post too! I got into classic quite late and took a month lay-over in the 49 bracket on my pally. Now I’m spending time in the 59 bracket before hitting 60. I enjoyed 49 so much I’m in the process of making another holy pally just for the 49 bracket. I played a holy pally in vanilla.

On your points:

1. I am not seeing many healadins. Granted I mostly pug, but it’s usually just me.

I noticed the same thing with pugs. I think part of it stems from the fact that most people lvl pallys as ret and, if they’re just passing through the bracket, they aren’t worried about healing gear or throwing out a heal to anyone besides themselves. I didn’t notice too many healers on alliance in pugs in general. People generally really appreciated the heals.



2. Despite being horribly undergeared (compared to actual twinks) and missing enchants, I feel I do quite well as a raid spot healer or in small skirmishes (2v2, 2v3). To make up for low Hp (and save on cost) I am simply using armor kits for the time being and have spec’d into Redoubt and Toughness. It usually takes a while for 1-2 melee to drag me down, while casters nuke me to dust (just like everybody else =D)

I’d choose redoubt too, but it rarely comes into play to help. Toughness just doesn’t add enough mitigation in the grand scheme of things. The real shinning talent by going prot with your extra 9 talents would be for the added support that Guardian’s Favor brings to the table, not Precision.

3. With all the min/maxing shaman and fire mages out there, I am finding caster burst damage very difficult to heal through, especially with dispel spam (negating most raid buffs and blessing of light). If two casters focus a target, I can usually get in 2-3 Flash of Light casts before it’s all over. More seasoned twinks actually have nature resist gear sets that they will throw on before engaging a shaman or when we see more than one que up. Melee is less of an issue with BoP available.

You’ll find your best friend for small skirmishes will be a warrior, preferably a twinky one that can take a punch or two. Larger health pools make them easier to keep alive than a lot of other classes. Use your Blessing of Freedom on them when they get snared and watch them wreck players.

4. Regarding gearing Healadins, the emphasis in the bracket seems to be on stam / int (‘of the eagle’) with healing power as a distant 3rd, usually just coming from enchants and/or dungeon secondary stat bonuses. Mp5 is generally not included at all.

I was stuck in quite a similar situation, 49 and no opportunity for BRD blues. Everything was pretty much “of the eagle” plate greens for me. I think the general idea is to stay alive and keep trying to support your team. So what if your heals go off for an extra 100hp if you die or run OOM halfway through the fight? Don’t forget you bring more to the table than a heal.

MP5 isn’t included in a lot of lists because you can’t get enough of it and the amount of regen just isn’t significant. Lets say you have 9 MP5 and a fight lasts 45 seconds. You got 81 mana back. That isn’t even enough mana to cast a R4 Flash of Light. Just take a drink after the fight is over or, if you get wiped, start fresh with full mana. If you really, really want to stick with the MP5 I would work towards Lorekeeper’s Ring and ditch the neck in favor of an eagle neck.

You could also swap the 2% block enchant on the shield in favor of +7 stamina. 2% block is negligible against most enemies in PvP, but +7 stamina helps to keep you alive against all of them. Eagle neck + stamina on your shield could give you an easy 15 extra stamina.

 

[ohti]

I saw this post and I made an account just to comment on this.

Been lurking this thread because I don't even play classic but that's awesome, I love this thread. Welcome to Xpoff!

 

[Adeimantus]

Holy benefits a lot from plus healing because it allows you to down rank which in turn eliminates mana issues. I would have an eagle set as well but I suspect I'd mostly use a plus healing set. This is the spec/gear I plan on running https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/63UL72vozhE9yFFcJkES1M

 

[Healbotn]

I saw this post and I made an account just to comment on this.

Thanks so much for the advice! Your points on Toughness, +Stam instead of +block, and Mp5 make a lot of sense. Also, I agree, there is something very special about a high HP BoF’d warrior charging into a crowd of clothies. =D

I was stuck in quite a similar situation, 49 and no opportunity for BRD blues. Everything was pretty much “of the eagle” plate greens for me. I think the general idea is to stay alive and keep trying to support your team. So what if your heals go off for an extra 100hp if you die or run OOM halfway through the fight? Don’t forget you bring more to the table than a heal.

Your points are well taken, but the last few weeks in the bracket have actually made me question the utility of deep mana and health pools at level 49 even more. Granted this is mostly referring to 10 v 10 midfield combat. I find that if an enemy team is decent (ie. most premades), I will be focus CC’d or mana drained immediately. So if I try and stay close with those rampaging warriors, I only get a chance at a few heals before I’m hobbled. I have been trying to mitigate some of the CC with a liberal use of BoS on frontline DPSers. If I can’t shake CC , I’m often forced to keep at max range, which means I can spot heal the raid casters and ranged dps but I can’t main heal those BoF’d, HP-heavy warriors trying to tear through the the enemy’s back line of clothies.


So the real issue I’m having isn’t running out of mana or even health. It’s actually that I am constantly the last one in my 10 man left standing, usually with half my mana and health bars left. So I figured that if I substitute that mana and health that I never get the chance to use anyway for +healing and Divine Shield early in the fight my front line may actually last long enough to push the enemy team back on their heals. It would allow me to play a bit more aggressively, knowing that my heals were actually being impactful.

Holy benefits a lot from plus healing because it allows you to down rank which in turn eliminates mana issues. I would have an eagle set as well but I suspect I'd mostly use a plus healing set. This is the spec/gear I plan on running

You get a lot of mitigation out of your Prot tree! Do you find you lose much in the hps category without specing into Holy Power? I like the idea of removing rng from the equation, as it would likely be minimized with all the +healing you plan on stacking. But I guess you don’t benefit as much as you could from 5/5 Illumination if your crit chance is lowered. As far as spell down ranking, I haven’t had a chance to do it myself. I usually find myself to far behind to allow for it, but again, I am new to this. Perhaps I should be using down-ranked Holy Lights earlier in the fight, instead of spamming Flash of Light?


My gear is still very much a work in progress (d@mn BRD Arena loot RNG ...), but I’m currently finding that having a +healing set and a utility (HP / MANA) set has been super helpful. I generally ride around in the ‘eagle’ set and will switch to a +healing set situationally. I was surprised that most of the lvl 49 req. greens have more Stam and Int on them then their BRD blue counterparts. My eagle set actually doubles quite effectively as a flag carrier set, especially when paired with the Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt, Uther’s Strength, and Talisman of Arathor. Ideally I last long enough to pass the flag off to a druid anyway ...


I am still saving for my enchants, but with them I will be easily over 300 + healing in the first set and close to 150 in the second. I should probably try and cobble together a hybrid build too.


Eagle
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/iKmxVkddMA1v93iaWvV18f


+ Healing
https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/5EvjMDGKi49kzJsvxqswW5

 

[Adeimantus]

You get a lot of mitigation out of your Prot tree! Do you find you lose much in the hps category without specing into Holy Power? I like the idea of removing rng from the equation, as it would likely be minimized with all the +healing you plan on stacking. But I guess you don’t benefit as much as you could from 5/5 Illumination if your crit chance is lowered. As far as spell down ranking, I haven’t had a chance to do it myself. I usually find myself to far behind to allow for it, but again, I am new to this. Perhaps I should be using down-ranked Holy Lights earlier in the fight, instead of spamming Flash of Light?


My gear is still very much a work in progress (d@mn BRD Arena loot RNG ...), but I’m currently finding that having a +healing set and a utility (HP / MANA) set has been super helpful. I generally ride around in the ‘eagle’ set and will switch to a +healing set situationally. I was surprised that most of the lvl 49 req. greens have more Stam and Int on them then their BRD blue counterparts. My eagle set actually doubles quite effectively as a flag carrier set, especially when paired with the Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt, Uther’s Strength, and Talisman of Arathor. Ideally I last long enough to pass the flag off to a druid anyway ...


I am still saving for my enchants, but with them I will be easily over 300 + healing in the first set and close to 150 in the second. I should probably try and cobble together a hybrid build too.

You do not lose out significantly imo. The issue with illumination at 39/49 is you can't establish a very high base crit to really take advantage of it . There's a few more crit options at 49 but it's not worth it imo. I take illumination because I think divine favor is quite strong and likely out weighs the other options in prot tree. With more points in prot you gain kings, lower bop cd/longer bof duration and significant boost to survivability against melee. With high spell power you mostly want to down rank flash of light because it can be very mana efficient. What rank you use is situational. Obviously, if your target is getting chunked, it's not going to be appropriate to be spamming rank 1 FoL.

 

[Jh2125]

I do not have a paladin healer in classic, but had healed in 49s from TBC on. My experience was very much like yours. I spec'd into prot and holy. More of a hybrid spec really. I stacked +healing gear where it made sense and didn't compromise; ie: a piece of gear with +healing wasn't at a great loss of other stats. If there was a better piece with lower +healing I would use it because it was a superior piece. The prot tree had utility and toughness I was looking for, and deep holy didn't seem to add enough to out weigh that. If I was to make a hpal I would likely shoot between 200-300 +hp, and hybrid spec the guy. Paladin heals are so mana efficient you hardly need to downrank. Just pop a mana pot imo. The main issue was getting the heals off in time.

 

[Healbotn]

The main issue was getting the heals off in time.

This. And that when they do land, it was worth the cast time and / or eating the cc!

 

[Jh2125]

This. And that when they do land, it was worth the cast time and / or eating the cc!

What about this set up? https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/mKFVQ8Uz42fhqUJsZeRvmT
My set up is using relatively the same talents as yours. You would gain 140 health, 19 mana, 31 +healing power, added 21% physical dmg mitigation from armor, and most importantly a shield for blocks. The improved devotion aura only improves armor by 185 maxed out. That block after crit imo will server you much better and open you up to the value of other auras.

 

[Healbotn]

What about this set up? https://sixtyupgrades.com/set/mKFVQ8Uz42fhqUJsZeRvmT
My set up is using relatively the same talents as yours. You would gain 140 health, 19 mana, 31 +healing power, added 21% physical dmg mitigation from armor, and most importantly a shield for blocks. The improved devotion aura only improves armor by 185 maxed out. That block after crit imo will server you much better and open you up to the value of other auras.

You had me at +357 healing power ...

I am intrigued by Adeimantus's heavy prot build too. I may have to give it a try for a week and see if I miss the crits or not.


Now, if I could just earn Silverwing rep in bracket a little faster ...
(if you ever see me holding a flag, now you know what was going through my head ).

 

[strec021]

What do you guys in this thread think about a Holy Reckoning build for overall utility, longevity, and melee melting?

https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pl...gNkKJTI1c-ootkWH3C0w_DC4wjy1nNjqQLghY3ZFFNk4x

Melee weapon could be exchanged for a flurry axe with lifestealing while fighting melee, perhaps taran icebreaker 1v1 casters.

Many classes in the bracket play whatever version of glass cannon they can and often lack in longevity if you survive their burst. The idea behind this build would be to have some offensive potency when under pressure, healing and team utility (primary focus) and of course longevity due to the high amount of intellect in the build and focus on using r3 SoR and consecrate to maximize mana efficiency during offense.

 

[Jh2125]

I think it could absolutely work if playing to that role. Expectations of melting may vary, but the idea imo is to keep your team alive and mobile to have an impact while still assisting with kills. Imagine an offensive hpal. Checking your gear set up; I would likely roll with constituion for head and legs over the 8 intel. Playing offensively I believe the extra hp will serve you better. Also, important to note that hpal is already extremely mana efficient. For 2h I would likely swap to https://classic.wowhead.com/item=12528/the-judges-gavel, and possibly a https://classic.wowhead.com/item=4090/mug-o-hurt 1h depending on situation. Could even swap depending on team make up to https://classic.wowhead.com/item=1979/wall-of-the-dead, and other heavier stam pieces if you find it necessary. https://classic.wowhead.com/item=7375/green-whelp-armor can also be really good when facing lots of melee. Weigh your utility > the small increase in dmg. Hope this helps!

This is what I would likely run:
https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pl...KJahh9wNnC0w_DC4wDVQ_Dkmwj0xHNjqQLghY3ZFFNk4x

 

[Healbotn]

I don’t have much experience with reckoning builds, but would love to see one at the 49 level. The improved concentration aura points might be stronger if placed somewhere else though. Classes can spec to ignore and clothies could probably use the improved devo more? Again, bursty bracket and our clothies tend to ‘pop’. Also, utility heals can be good in a big group, but we still don’t have a ton of healers, and 156 +heal isn’t going to hold up as a primary heal (I’ve tried). Let me know how it works out!