Firey Vs Crusader

[Rip]

crusader does not have a 1ppm. anyone that claims crusader has a 1ppm past this line is an idiot and should be perm banned

Have you actually tested it's exact PPM?



I haven't but from what I can tell of WoWHead, it's

Proc Rate (%) = Weapon Speed * 1.82

*Disclaimer*: I'm going off an old WoWHead Comment for it's Proc Rate, and I'm not using a Calculator to determine it's PPM (plus it's past 1AM).



So with a Shadowfang (2.7 Speed) it would be a 4.914%chance to proc, and with Shadowfang attacking 22 times per minute, that would give you a 1.1 PPM





Edit to show Math:

22 * .05 = 1.1 PPM

That's Attacks Per Minute times Proc Rate %

 

[germs]

Maybe you should do something better with your life than troll someone who can kick your ass.

None of us enjoy seeing you ride his nuts.

 

[Druiddroid]

rip did you factor in stuff other than autoattack?

 

[Ogsir]

Crusader=WOAHH SHINYYY

Fiery=Good dps.







I play a 19 rogue, crusader is a waste of time to even think about. If your all arguing about the heal proc, you are obviously pugging, and if you are, go with LS please. Other than that, and if your usually rolling with a priest or don't want to be a dumbass twink, go with fiery or +15 agility.

Now for the argument about +15 agility and fiery, heres how it goes.

Fiery=+40 fire dmg proc burst dmg

+15 agility=Dodge.Crit.Armor.(am i missing one?)

 

[Sweettea]

ap =] which is kinda important

 

[PaintrainOneNine]

Yes because resist rate is something along lines 2-10% it factors for 15%-45% armor right? And during my 50k honorable kills at 19 I havent seen a single Flame Deflector. Your post is ridiculous.

...i only see 20k killz..but a guy can dream right?

 

[WSG]

crusader does not have a 1ppm. anyone that claims crusader has a 1ppm past this line is an idiot and should be perm banned



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also, LS is shit. anyone defending it gets the same treatment as the 1ppm claimers. double also, anyone claiming switching wpns during proc is dumb and doesn't think things through well. you're effectively silencing yourself for a GCD and adding another thing you'll have to focus on, which isn't tab kicking and following the FC. it's nice on paper, but unless you're a warrior, it's pointless. you're also not giving yourself any extra opportunity for more procs



CRUSADER BABY

Enchant Weapon - Crusader - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft



If they start banning people that speak the truth, the forums will go downhill. Rapidly.



Crusader is 1ppm.

 

[Zatox]

idk i kinda like the raw AP you get from the 15 agility, but what else is viable as far as it goes? currently, i use Cruel Barb -mainhand and Scout's Blade -offhand, both 15 agi, and since this is a crusader/fiery thread, what would be better? CB - Sader. SB - Fiery? or really whats the best setup for pug WSG/arena?

 

[Theme]

Your accusation that 50k honor kills mean experience is ridiculous.

I didnt really mean anything else with my comment but that Flame Detector is so rare that its quite stupid to say that you should include it in maths about fierys dps potential.



There has been quite alot discussion about this considering warriors, and as crusader gives larger dps increase for warriors but still fierys nearly as good as crusader even with the squishiest targets and better than crusader when talking about fighting warriors and such. Knowing this Id say its quite safe assume that fierys larger dps increase for rogues by quite large margin in pretty much all situations. Include the fact that without any snares rogues are way more likely to not benefit part of the crusader buff and as I said before, choice is clear.



As said in another threads, if your making a conclusion based on maths, plz try to include even the most basic things like armor/avoidance/misses/off-hand instead of useless "it procs 6 times a minute so its 6*40 dmg".

 

[WSG]

rip did you factor in stuff other than autoattack?

He would not need to consider anything but autoattacks.



1ppm is a WoW method of stating a variable percentage chance. The difference is caused by your weapon speed. There are two different forms of "ppm" in the game, from what I have been told.



Old School PPM: This applies to Crusader, Fiery, and also some new abilities like a Shaman's Maelstrom Weapon talent.



The formula is Xppm/(60/weapon speed) = % chance to proc.

Putting Crusader on Shadowfang is a 1ppm enchant on a 2.7 second weapon so:

1/(60/2.7) ~ 4.5% chance to proc.

Every autoattack and every special attack will have a 4.5% chance to proc Crusader. If you stay on a target for 1 minute straight AND use special attacks in addition to autoattacking, you should see more than 1 actual proc per minute because the specials will also have the 4.5% chance to proc.



Haste will be beneficial to any old school ppm based enchant as the proc chance is set by your weapon's speed and haste will cause you to swing faster than your weapon's speed.

 

[Grabco]

Thanks Rip,

So with a 3.9 swing speed weapon that would be approx 1.2 ppm. I guess this is why a slower weapon is often better for pallies.

 

[kidneypopper]

sorry i should have clarified. people saying the 1.w/e ppm is the final cut for crusader and should be factored into it's dps numbers should be banned etc below the line. i don't really care what the average proc rate is, we've all seen crusader chain proc a few times, and i've even dueled a warrior where it proc'd 6 times in one minute (2 procs at the same time even, cause he switched to a 2h).



and the OP was asking what is better for arenas and premades. not which has higher dps. idk why you're letting #s do the talking for you



CRUSADER BABY

 

[Cliche]

Have you actually tested it's exact PPM?



I haven't but from what I can tell of WoWHead, it's

Proc Rate (%) = Weapon Speed * 1.82

*Disclaimer*: I'm going off an old WoWHead Comment for it's Proc Rate, and I'm not using a Calculator to determine it's PPM (plus it's past 1AM).



So with a Shadowfang (2.7 Speed) it would be a 4.914%chance to proc, and with Shadowfang attacking 22 times per minute, that would give you a 1.1 PPM





Edit to show Math:

22 * .05 = 1.1 PPM

That's Attacks Per Minute times Proc Rate %

Um, did you read the whole comment >.> You're suppposed to put weapon speed in there, not swings per minute because you are initially assuming the the ppm is 1.01



2.7*1.82 = 4.914% chance to proc with a 2.7 speed weapon



You get 22.222 swings per minute with a shadowfang.

1.01/22.22222 = .04545 or a 4.5% chance to proc sader with a 2.7 speed weapon. Im assuming the difference is due to rounding the 1.82.



People need to read up on the thread about LS vs Crusader for warriors to figure out damage. (The answer is crusader)

 

[kidneypopper]

Um, did you read the whole comment >.> You're suppposed to put weapon speed in there, not swings per minute because you are initially assuming the the ppm is 1.01



2.7*1.82 = 4.914% chance to proc with a 2.7 speed weapon



You get 22.222 swings per minute with a shadowfang.

1.01/22.22222 = .04545 or a 4.5% chance to proc sader with a 2.7 speed weapon. Im assuming the difference is due to rounding the 1.82.



People need to read up on the thread about LS vs Crusader for warriors to figure out damage. (The answer is crusader)

my boy cliche with the round house to the faceee



get outta this thread everyone. its ova

 

[WSG]

post your reasons for voting for which enchant



This is for arenas and premades.

(for rogues)

People need to read up on the thread about LS vs Crusader for warriors to figure out damage. (The answer is crusader)

my boy cliche with the round house to the faceee



get outta this thread everyone. its ova

Rogues =/= Warriors. Crusader is cut in half for them as they only get 100AP. Warriors get 200 AP.

 

[Theme]

Rogues =/= Warriors. Crusader is cut in half for them as they only get 100AP. Warriors get 200 AP.

Not exactly. Rogues have off-hand to benefit from crusader. They have higher miss chance on whites tho. And what Cliche meant was that in that thread there was alot general talk about these enchants.

 

[Goma]

o 6 pages this is heating up

 

[Diiesel]

Goma, I know you what you were trying to prove when you posted this. Crusader is simply a scrub fail enchant for a rogue, it is. I have tried every enchant possible in my time playing a rogue.



I guess crusader on a rogue could be good against noobs or for farming gy with a couple of pocket healers if that's what your into, but against anyone even half skilled it's a complete joke.



Let me see if I understand this correctly, Im going to wait around for a proc with a ppm less then ls, that doesn't do any instant dmg, heals you slighty, for what? To be backstafed against, gouged, hamstrung, rooted, feared, frostbolted, sheeped, earthbound, umm did I miss anything? The point being made is no good player is going to take that damage or let their teammate take it for that matter.



The only two classes I see Sader working for is a Warrior, or maybe a Shaman. Atleast they have a way to hold someone into taking the damage.

 

[Lloydganks]

crusader is just always the best in pretty much every realistic situation at low levels for all melee classes. i've been saying this for years....it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. some of you guys need to learn what instant attacks are and their effect on weapon procs.



stop blindly listening to people who have no idea what the fuck they're talking about, and instead go out and theorycraft things yourself from the ground up. that way not only will you know for sure that your theorycraft is/is not correct, but you will know WHY and be able to use that knowledge in your gameplay. you can apply this same logic to the rest of your life, too.

 

[Diiesel]

crusader is just always the best in pretty much every realistic situation at low levels for all melee classes. i've been saying this for years....it doesn't take a genius to figure this out. some of you guys need to learn what instant attacks are and their effect on weapon procs.



stop blindly listening to people who have no idea what the fuck they're talking about, and instead go out and theorycraft things yourself from the ground up. that way not only will you know for sure that your theorycraft is/is not correct, but you will know WHY and be able to use that knowledge in your gameplay. you can apply this same logic to the rest of your life, too.

What? Oh wait, your sig has you as a lowbie farming scrub. You fall into the category I mentioned above. Your right, crusader IS good for YOU.