Feel free to rip me a new one, but...

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Batts

Batts

Grandfathered
Hear me out first.

Do you think the bracket would be better off without Rdruid FCs?

Been thinking about it for the last hour or so...

Never been a fan of any part of a fight being meaningless. And I feel with specifically rdruids, the entire fight is meaningless until FCs are at high stacks.

When a druid can cross map basically every time on his own, even with 1 person dedicated chasing + maybe 1-2 people who peel out to help contest the cross, he can make it to his team -- and past them to some spot he can sit, knowing he'll be fine till higher stacks. If his team dies at mid, he has the maneuverability to rotate around till his team is full ressed at GY. Blink, dash, constant shifting, and adequate self heals from NS/CW(usable in bear form, and all without the tank flag debuff) put it above the mark where anything else is comparable.

It leaves the entire midfight as just padding until however long it takes to get high enough stacks to oneshot him with a rogue+other. With any other sort of FC, it takes a much more orchestrated effort as a group to support it. Positioning and team play is more important. It adds pressure to the midfight, as the FC will more than likely die with his group.

I think if teams had to support their FCs a bit more, it'd lead to more involved gameplay all around. Even a boomkin would need a bit of support, with the weaker self heals.

If I'm wrong, feel free to refute my points!
I'm not asking for rdruid fcs to be banned, just maybe some testing or thought in general. I know the majority of this bracket is in it for making the best games possible.
 
I used to think that would be good for 19s, but quite honestly a single Rogue would make a miserable time for any non-Druid FC.
 
I think, seeing as any real team wouldn't have more than 1 rogue regardless, it wouldn't be much of an issue if the FC went with an escort. The single rogue on D, if he chose to be on D instead of disrupting heals at mid, which a well played rogue is GREAT at, would delay EFC but more than likely die when he opened.

If more than the rogue was on D, the enemy team would have a mid advantage and should by all means be able to force the other team back to the point of being able to pick as a group.

If 1-2 people on each side were sitting back on D... hard to tell what would happen. That's why I'm asking for some groupthink xD.
 
i think the meta has been turned into just a really boring style of play.

there used to be defense groups that met an offense group ramp while a group was mid and someone usually sat on d as well. The fights weren't just one big zerg minus the fc.
 
Druids have been FCs in other brackets for years. It really is not that big of a deal. You just have to find alternative strategies.

You people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
 
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Pls don't derail this into a drama thread from the get-go.

As stated in the OP, I'm not saying RESTO FC OP PLZ BAN, or begging for strats/consumables to fight them either.

I'm trying to thinktank on how the bracket might play out without them as FCs, and if that bracket would be more enjoyable than the current "meta" that a lot of people find to be a stale, endless mid zerg with no real strategy other than TC swapping with burst or running healers OOM.

Because with druids parked on either side for 6+ stacks, what's the point of fighting mid at all till you can make an effective push after winning it?
 
Allybeboba said:
Druids have been FCs in other brackets for years. It really is not that big of a deal. You just have to find alternative strategies.

Did you really think about this for an hour? You people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Click to expand...

This thread was clearly made for constructive discussion and wasn't a QQ thread, so please grow up. Druids might have been viable Fcs for years but other class/specs were actually better and you had options. There is no other competitive option atm.
 
You
Shook said:
This thread was clearly made for constructive discussion and wasn't a QQ thread, so please grow up. Druids might have been viable Fcs for years but other class/specs were actually better and you had options. There is no other competitive option atm.
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Grow up??? What are you talking about??

Of coarse we have options. Someone has already even stated one. We have been and continue to deal with Druid FCs in every bracket. Just counter them. That is all there is to it. Kill them before they get to the flag. What is so damn hard about that?
If we keep putting limitations on what we can play before we know it, no one will want to play BECAUSE of the limitations.
 
Allybeboba said:
You

Grow up??? What are you talking about??

Of coarse we have options. Someone has already even stated one. We have been and continue to deal with Druid FCs in every bracket. Just counter them. That is all there is to it. Kill them before they get to the flag. What is so damn hard about that?
If we keep putting limitations on what we can play before we know it, no one will want to play BECAUSE of the limitations.
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Is it a viable strategy to kill a Rdruid before he gets the flag? Stealth aside, they are too slipery and fast to kill them without stacks. If you managed to stop them, you would have putt too much resources into it and your team would be getting crushed in mid. Thoughts?
 
Batts said:
Pls don't derail this into a drama thread from the get-go.
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What?

With the threat of a Flash Bomb, the FC will have to compensate. They can do this by staying ahead of the team, and stay in caster when they expect a FB. This is at least a more fair option than an outright ban on Rdruid FCs.
 
Allybeboba said:
You

Grow up??? What are you talking about??

Of coarse we have options. Someone has already even stated one. We have been and continue to deal with Druid FCs in every bracket. Just counter them. That is all there is to it. Kill them before they get to the flag. What is so damn hard about that?
If we keep putting limitations on what we can play before we know it, no one will want to play BECAUSE of the limitations.
Click to expand...

OP already said he doesn't want to limit what people play, he just want's a discussion of a break from the meta.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be starting from the presupposition that resto fc's are all there ever will be, so we might as well get used to it.
This thread is about exploring the opposite, so lets keep an open mind. :)
 
What?

With the threat of a Flash Bomb, the FC will have to compensate. They can do this by staying ahead of the team, and stay in caster when they expect a FB. This is at least a more fair option than an outright ban on Rdruid FCs.
Click to expand...

I mistook your intention as inviting criticism/drama from the already over-inflated issue of flash/arcane bombs in the bracket. I apologize if you weren't, but I think you're approaching the idea from the wrong vector regardless. I'm not talking an Rdruid FC ban to be policed(not mentioning the extreme rarity of the flash bomb schematic on top of the fact they'd be unusable in wargame play) in pugs, I'm talking about a meta shift towards more involved gameplay on both sides by using alternative FC options.
 
housewife said:
OP already said he doesn't want to limit what people play, he just want's a discussion of a break from the meta.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be starting from the presupposition that resto fc's are all there ever will be, so we might as well get used to it.
This thread is about exploring the opposite, so lets keep an open mind. :)
Click to expand...

No no... I did no state that that is all there will ever be. I stated Druids have been FCs for years. It is not as if this is anything new. All other brackets deal with it just fine and have devised strategies in dealing with Druid FCs. It is just a matter of doing it in this bracket as well.
The solution many people here is if they don't like it or they can't accomplish it then it must be (A) banned (B) cheating (C) Both.
Many here just don't want to take the time to devise a real strategy against a real competitive team. If they did, they would be playing end game. Instead, people want to make restrictions that suit their needs. Unfortunately that leads to culling down of players.

No one here has mentioned the $100,000 tournament today.
 
Allybeboba said:
No no... I did no state that that is all there will ever be. I stated Druids have been FCs for years. It is not as if this is anything new. All other brackets deal with it just fine and have devised strategies in dealing with Druid FCs. It is just a matter of doing it in this bracket as well.
The solution many people here is if they don't like it or they can't accomplish it then it must be (A) banned (B) cheating (C) Both.
Many here just don't want to take the time to devise a real strategy against a real competitive team. If they did, they would be playing end game. Instead, people want to make restrictions that suit their needs. Unfortunately that leads to culling down of players.

No one here has mentioned the $100,000 tournament today.
Click to expand...

A handful of us have been at the top of the RBG ladder multiple times but that is irrelevant here. The issue is if one strat is "Too good" compared to all other options, that means the game is flawed and gives a legitimate reason to discuss limiting said thing. Again, this isn't a ban thread... This is to discuss how different/beneficial/worse the gameplay would be without Rdruid FCs.

If Rdruid FCs were not in the picture, what would you use?
 
I miss my Frisbee-tossing shenanigans as Prot-Paladin
 
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Shook said:
A handful of us have been at the top of the RBG ladder multiple times but that is irrelevant here. The issue is if one strat is "Too good" compared to all other options, that means the game is flawed and gives a legitimate reason to discuss limiting said thing. Again, this isn't a ban thread... This is to discuss how different/beneficial/worse the gameplay would be without Rdruid FCs.

If Rdruid FCs were not in the picture, what would you use?
Click to expand...

Great, then you know the strategies that we employ at endgame to curtail Druid FCs already. Many of those strategies can be modified to work in this bracket as well. Such as the 7-3, the 6-3-1, 10-0 Zerg. Most people just go willy-nilly when pugging and have no basic concept of any of these.
On maps with multiple GYs we should be splitting rezzes, or not splitting them.
 
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