US f2p Haste Questions

[chrisnagy]

Hey,

First time poster looking for some help about haste. I've played f2p on and off for years making a resto shaman this go around. I wanted to get my cast time for lightning bolt down to 1.6 seconds. I'm not great at math but I was figuring 20% haste would knock off .4 cast time giving me 1.6, however after obtaining that much haste - the tool tip remained at 1.7. I was lucky enough to get some other haste pieces bringing it up to 22% haste but still 1.7 cast time according to the tool tip.

I also have a priest and I was trying to get the heal from 1.5 second cast down to a 1.2 second cast. After 23%+ haste the tool tip did change from 1.3 to 1.2 which is more than I should need to get down to 1.2 right? Makes me think there is a soft cap?

So is there a haste soft cap for level 20 f2p and if so, what are the breaks?

Is it true that haste in the current version of the game no longer increases the rate at which dots tick? I read somewhere that haste actually increases dot damage instead.

How does haste effect dot and or hots in the current version?

Thanks in advance,
Nagy

 

[Donor]

@Crystalpall mite know

 

[Sin'dor]

I was figuring 20% haste would knock off .4 cast time giving me 1.6, [...]

That's your issue... Haste isn't a measure of the "Time Reduction", it's a measure of the "Frequency Increase". While one obviously affects the other, it won't be the same quantity.

20% Haste on a 2sec Lightning Bolt will result in:

2sec/1.20 = 1.67sec

...while your stated goal would require 25%:

2sec/1.25 = 1.60sec

I also have a priest and I was trying to get the heal from 1.5 second cast down to a 1.2 second cast.

Again that would require the same 25%:

1.5sec/1.25 = 1.20sec

...although I suspect the game would show the same result at 24% because of the way it truncates numbers:

1.5sec/1.24 = 1.209sec


Hope this helps!

 

[chrisnagy]

Ahh I see, thank you

Much appreciated,
Nagy

 

[Eleannor]

If I recall correctly:

Haste fastens the ticks of a periodical spell and also adds more ticks if enough Haste is present.

Before, Haste's value was like a sharp line with a quick downfall. After a set amount was achieved, Haste kept increasing the speed of your ticks but not enough to add another one - reducing its value after that point.

Nowdays, Haste's value is a nice curve with no major changes. That's due to the additional points proportionally increasing the amount of damage the ticks do, instead of being waste if they are not enough to trigger another tick.

---

Haste also have the effect of reducing selected spell's cooldowns and the time you have to spend before using two instant spells in a row ("the spin" or "Global Cooldowns").

It used to be that the Global Cooldown (GCD) could never be reduced lower than 1 second, meaning that additional Haste would go to waste. This is no longer the case.

---

To a F2P point of view, Haste and Versatility are usually the two best stats, since there are almost no passive spells that favor a specific stat.

The first is a steady increase to damage due to a steady increase in play speed. Also, it reduces the time your opponents have to you interrupt your spells.

The later is also a steady increase to damage done and [EDIT] a reduction to damage received. In a PvP scenarios, this makes Versatility usually the top priority for generalistic playstyles.
[doublepost=1564019967,1564019753][/doublepost]

That's your issue... Haste isn't a measure of the "Time Reduction", it's a measure of the "Frequency Increase". While one obviously affects the other, it won't be the same quantity.

That's why 100% Haste isn't an instanteous and endless amount of spells, but rather a "50% time reduction", allowing you to cast twice as many spells on the same time period!

 

[Sin'dor]

Haste fastens the ticks of a periodical spell and also adds more ticks if enough Haste is present. [...] That's due to the additional points proportionally increasing the amount of damage the ticks do, instead of being waste if they are not enough to trigger another tick.

I actually didn't know about that whole "still valuing any excess" bit... much better than simply having "breakpoints". Cool!

 

[Eleannor]

I actually didn't know about that whole "still valuing any excess" bit... much better than simply having "breakpoints". Cool!

Pandaria had a crazy Affliction Warlock passive called Pandemic. It made newly casted dots add to the running duration of an old dot while also maintaing the effect of all buffs you had at the cast time.

Until then, if you did not casted DOTs after getting a trinket proc (for example), they would not normally get affected by it.

Since this function greatly increased the hypothetical damage potential of the spec and required a ton of addons to properly be tracked, it was changed in WoD.

Now, all DOTs have the add-time effect of Pandemic*, don't have haste breakpoints anymore and benefit in real time from your buffs.

*The Pandemic add-time effect is something along the lines of "if a DoT is about on half duration, casting it again will extend it over its tooltip maximum duration by a few seconds".

 

[Crystalpall]

I was tagged in this, and I’m glad others were able to help you, because I’m very stupid when it comes to wow secondaries.

 

[chrisnagy]

Really appreciate the reply's/info, thank you

I've read some great guides and have sifted through random posts but I still can't decide on what jewelry pieces to use on my resto shaman. I don't love the idea of sacrificing too much int to gain secondary stats like haste but at the same time if I had say a million int, its not going to matter if I can't get a heal off in time

Not sure if I'm allowed to link yet as a new poster but my name is Nagy on Aerie Peak. With what I have collected so far, I can bring my haste to a total of 22.25% but it lowers my int to 159. @ that int my lightning bolts do 191 dmg vs the 208 (i think) they do now. I can't remember the healing numbers but its an even bigger difference

I saw Chop's post on Weko's shaman guide (excellent guide) that 190 int is plenty and should focus on haste there after. I'm at 171 int and could maybe squeak out a couple more but I won't hit 190. Even if I could, there would be nothing left to customize any how

It probably comes down to preference but I'd appreciate what others think. Is the setup I have now with roughly 17% haste optimal? should I go ham and get as much haste as possible no matter the cost? Or should I have even less haste than I have now? My original goal was to get the heal to 1.2 and the dmg spells to 1.6 cast times but I think it might literally be impossible

Thanks in advance,
Nagy

 

[Eleannor]

I believe you should exchange your necklace for the Heirloom one w/ Versatility. It has intellect and the on-use potion effect [DEPRECATED]

Also try using https://www.wowhead.com/npc=14754/kelm-hargunth#sells:50-2 and another Haste / Versatility ring dropped by dungeon satchel or battleground crate.

The intellect gained from these surpass the other rings and necklaces with only secondary stats.

 

[Chops]

Here's my Horde F2P shaman and alliance F2p shaman if you'd like to compare gear.

I believe you should exchange your necklace for the Heirloom one w/ Versatility. It has intellect and the on-use potion effect.

if he's f2p, he wont have access to heirloom neck

 

[Light]

Here's my Horde F2P shaman and alliance F2p shaman if you'd like to compare gear.

if he's f2p, he wont have access to heirloom neck

he's probably a vet and just got lost in the forums
after all they are pretty much the same thing

 

[Chops]

after all they are pretty much the same thing

 

[LecolaEU]

Not Pure! Burn him!

 

[Eleannor]

If he's f2p, he wont have access to heirloom neck

Oh, I see. It's just that some F2P are secondary accounts bound to a main one. Then he'd still have access to his heirlooms.

Thought it was a stat priority thing, opting for the necklace with more haste.

 

[Sploofin]

seconding that int>>>>haste, and I don't think it's worth using the neck/rings that don't give intellect, but honestly you should just get as much gear as you can and see what you like. keep in mind that your secondaries are going to scale down quite a bit at 29--I'm not sure how resto scales in particular, but if you've got 20% haste at 20, I wouldn't be at all surprised if you end up with like 14% haste in bgs.

how many quests have you done so far? hitting 190 on that toon is definitely doable if you haven't exhausted everything--I think around 194 would actually be your cap with epic procs. that's assuming a lot of luck and/or that you'd use epics without secondaries, but you could probably get pretty close. just using int rings/necks and getting an epic weapon/shield would shoot you up to 188 and boost your hp a bit as well.

all that aside, if going from 20-22.5 haste costs you almost 10% dmg on lightning bolt and even more on your heals, there's no way that's worth doing, particularly when that added haste scales down to like ~1.8% in bgs. if you meant that going from 17-22.5% drops your int to that level, then that's a bit closer, but you're still trading like ~5.5 haste that'll scale down for 10+% on your heals (and your int will actually increase at 29) which in my opinion still isn't close to being worth considering. resto sham is bonkers regardless though, so just play what you want and it'll be fine.

 

[chrisnagy]

Chops - thanks for the links, very helpful. Looks like your haste is 7% and 10% on your characters. Honestly feels fast enough? Never have any issues getting off heals or wish your spells cast a tad faster @ the cost of a little less int? Appreciate your input

Eleannor - thanks for the suggestions. I believe my account is technically a vet account. It is linked to my main account like you said but I haven't sub'd in years. I think I have that heirloom, thank you

Sploofin - thanks for the insight. great point about secondaries scaling down in bgs, I can see why in bgs int > haste but for open world pvp & dungeons is haste of more value? - If so how much would you say? I haven't done very many quests. I tried for that mace from ashenvale - just got the regular blue one. Is there an epic weapon/shield I can farm like foamspittle or it just straight luck from quest rewards that turn epic?

Going from 17% haste @ 171 int, to 22.25% haste @ 159 int drops bolt dmg from 208 to 191. I was thinking a faster cast means more bolts, thus more dmg. No?

I'm also thinking from a healing pov, the .1 - .3 seconds I can shave off might be what I need to get that clutch heal. Could a 50 less powerfull heal (say a 390 fast heal vs a 340 fast heal) mean the difference of life or death because it was say .2 faster? There has to be situations where thats true but in your experiences how often does that happen? If hardly ever, then I see why int > haste. but if it happens often enough, could a legitimate argument be made for haste at the cost of some int?

Sorry for dragging this on so long, I think I'm almost there on what I want to do.

Most appreciative of your help,
Nagy

 

[Oldpunk]

The next question is, is there a minimum level of haste that it would be unwise to go below? Esp in view of all these epics with lots of int but no secondaries.

 

[Sploofin]

I can see why in bgs int > haste but for open world pvp & dungeons is haste of more value? - If so how much would you say? I haven't done very many quests. I tried for that mace from ashenvale - just got the regular blue one. Is there an epic weapon/shield I can farm like foamspittle or it just straight luck from quest rewards that turn epic?

Going from 17% haste @ 171 int, to 22.25% haste @ 159 int drops bolt dmg from 208 to 191. I was thinking a faster cast means more bolts, thus more dmg. No?

I'd probably value it 30% higher outside bgs, since that's approx the reduction you're getting at 29. For me personally though I'd always gear for bgs at the expense of dungeons (which are super easy, and Rsham is so op that you'll probably lead in dps even while healing) or world pvp (where you're mostly ganking levelers who are easily juked if they even have their interrupts on their bars).

discontinuer's hammer should be first on your list for weapon. shields would be shield of stockades, shield of talredis point, shield of uncurbed appetite. basically luck yeah, about 1/8 to go blue>purple. no easy boes that I know of. if you strike out on all of those, you'd start looking at greens and hoping for a double proc. worth grinding over time between bgs etc.

using numbers above for lightning bolt, not yours exactly but close:
208 at 20%, 1.67 cast over 20s=11.97 bolts=2,489 damage
191 at 25%, 1.60 cast over 20s=12.5 bolts=2,387 damage

you could argue that you wouldn't get the .97 on the first line, but 11 bolts v 12 is basically identical (2287 v. 2291), and that's a favorable break point for haste. and if you assume 12/12, the numbers are much more one-sided (2496 v. 2291).

the bottom line is that if you could trade 10% haste for 10% int, it would make sense to go after the haste. but because of the way scaling works in bgs (making your 10% essentially 7%) it's never going to be an even swap. and gaining large amounts of haste usually involves taking such a big hit to intellect (as in not using intellect rings/necks) that it just isn't worth stacking. Not to mention the fact that every point of int is worth much more than a single point of haste (and probably closer to 3-4x as valuable, but im guessing, not mathing here, and a lot of it is preference).

Could a 50 less powerfull heal (say a 390 fast heal vs a 340 fast heal) mean the difference of life or death because it was say .2 faster? There has to be situations where thats true but in your experiences how often does that happen? If hardly ever, then I see why int > haste. but if it happens often enough, could a legitimate argument be made for haste at the cost of some int?

possible for sure, but it's going to be pretty rare, as that's a super tight window. another way to look at it is that if you're healing for 50 more each time, and you've got 3 heals off, you're now 150 hp above where you would have been with the slightly faster heals (and you wouldn't have gotten a fourth cast on the .2s faster heal). that 150 probably buys you enough time to get off another heal, or at the very least buys you more than .2s if it was going to be a close call otherwise.

it's sorta the same situation--there will be break points where everything lines up and a clutch cast saves someone, but you'll be healing for less in every other situation, which is probably >98% of the time. sacrificing some power for faster casts would make more sense in endgame arena, but you're mostly going against levelers at 20, and there aren't many interrupts around either (so it doesn't make as much sense to say that faster casts are harder to interrupt/easier to juke with). also factor in that you've got some instants, and that if you're running into a fight and someone is at 5% hp you might just toss that instant as a buffer rather than start a cast you might not even get off.

haste is definitely legit, but i don't think there's much of an argument to gear for it at the expense of int. if you're hitting 185-190 int, i could see taking some haste over the last few points. i just wouldn't use the necks/rings that don't give any int at all.

food for thought ^^