Botters allowed to partipate in the 2015 Twink Cup?
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Puempeekstoh
Legend
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Pvv
Grandfathered
Love that picture!
Freestylex
Legend
Haha yeah it really is crazy. 2 classes have interupts, 1 class has a dispel, literally any mechanical movement within the game that could provide an insight into somebodies skill level has been eliminated right off the bat. I love reading the posts here about how these people who believe they've got some god complex because they've got simple game knowledge.
Literally the only thing that could make a good player stand out from a bad player at 19 due to its limited access to abilities, cc, dispels, ect. is positioning.
If they truly believe they're that much farther ahead of everyone else due to their ability to perform what everyone over 2200 at end-game already does on a daily basis they're idiots.
:^)
diddleme
Grandfathered
Loving this thread. Makes me laugh when people call out the best to try to ban them from competitive play. Personally if they use bots I couldn't care less. The people that want the money from the cup aren't the people we want in our bracket anyway. SR and HARVEST would still participate without the money reward to prove they are the best. Also if anyone against botting is pro-consumables I'm just saying botting seems like something you would do since a "twink should use everything they can to get an edge over the competition".
Straight up the good players aren't using bots for one reason. They want someone to come give them a challenge so they can better themselves. Grow up. Drop the topic. Rise to the challenge. If they "bot" beat them and show us you can outplay them even when they "cheat".
Straight up the good players aren't using bots for one reason. They want someone to come give them a challenge so they can better themselves. Grow up. Drop the topic. Rise to the challenge. If they "bot" beat them and show us you can outplay them even when they "cheat".
#Idiote
Legend
frfr!!
Snack
Salty
You oppinion about Pizza is biased as well tho
He was asking how to make it return flags even faster tho... Isn't that going a bit far if he only wanted it to be believable? :3
Allybomaye
Banned
Account sharing is also against Blizzard's TOU.. It seems some people never learn from their mistakes.
I've noticed that your gameplay has gotten significantly worse since you started playing on Srgntpizza's account.. But that's to be expected given that you can no longer use bot features.
Have a nice day!
/cheers
Painaid
The Immortal
Both excellent points, Snack. I was writing my response late last night so didn't catch that part about "making it look less bot like" (???). Darkchewie, you do realize what you said is completely contradictory to what Pizza's apparent motive was, right? If he wanted the bot to look less bot-like, why would he be asking questions to make the flag bot return flags even FASTER? That would actually defeat your raised premise and make the bot look even MORE bot-like than before. Your logic isn't coherent at all here, man.
ANYWHO, it seems the majority of arguments have been laid out and mostly rehash is occurring now. That's fine. The only goal Drayner and I had was in putting forth this cogent argument and inform the community about things that are likely occurring behind their backs.
So the community can decide to do nothing and be complacent, or they can choose to take some sort of action. Regardless, the community should now understand that botting IS a serious problem and whether you believe or do not believe certain 19s were botting to gain a competitive advantage, be it through flag pick-up bots, advanced combat routines, etc, is not fully relevant. Now that the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, this problem is likely to resurface by the time the TC begins.
Further, the community understands that the "top" 19 Twinks, whether you like it or not, are going to be using mouse/keybind macros to give them further competitive advantages through flag capping, jumps, etc. If you truly believe that there is some sort of "Honor Code" amongst these players not to do it, then you truly are ignorant. They have both their egos and $7,000 on the line. How much more motive do they need to withhold such information and use it to their own personal advantage? Seriously. Think about it.
There's no way to police this latter sort of action and it's not technically against Blizzard ToS since it's really impossible to prove in most cases. Thus, the only solution I can see is to educate twinks on this and let them decide whether they wish to do the same thing so that they can "fight on equal footing" with the top twinks who are content to keep these strats hidden.
Despite Darkchewie's sentiment that Pizza, in the last cup, tried his hardest to teach other teams "strats" and help them improve (whatever that means), it's puzzling that nothing was ever brought up on these forums, during all this time, on such simple improvements that every twink could make regarding upgrading from the stone-age technology of "scrolling" to actual keyboard/mice keybinds on Razer/Logitech keyboards which are 10x more efficient and effective. Why didn't they do this?
Perhaps they conveniently forgot. Or perhaps it was because they wished to keep this technology/advantage to themselves. Because you can be damn sure the "best" scrollers and flag returners will be using this technology at the least, or flag returning bots at the worst.
And instead of being informed of this 2+ year old technology, as well as the community's lack of awareness of advanced combat routines, etc, you'll think that everything that was done because of pure "skill" only.
Regarding my potential biases: Yes, I do not like Pizza; I do not trust him. I have made that mistake before and been burned by it on more than one occasion. Other Guild Leaders in the past can attest that Pizza has done other unsavory things all in an effort to give him and his guild a competitive advantage.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." This idiom explains why Drayner and I felt we had a moral imperative to bring this knowledge to the community.
Some members in this thread, such as Darkchewie and Conq have called me out, trying to explain that Pizza has changed since those times. This is indeed possible and that this is all just a misunderstanding. But the evidence shows that Pizza was actively looking for a flag return bot, and wanted to find a way to "cap flags as fast as possible" shows intent to gain an unfair competitive advantage in WSG. That much is certain. With that evidence, I am forced to fall back on the aforementioned idiom. That no, while Pizza may have new front that has fooled many of you new-age twinks who don't remember the old Pizza, the Pizza of today still hasn't changed one bit--and he is just like he always had been. But with so many new twinks coming onto the scene and old ones retiring, it was fairly easy for him to create a new false identity.
Darkchewie: You are just as biased as I am, yet in the opposite camp. I could easily say you have the wool covering your own eyes. But that isn't all. You could stand to benefit from Pizza's actions since you are in the same guild as him.
Conq: You are a bit different. You are newer to the scene and you have made, from my own personal interactions with you, a sincere and bona fide attempt to establish a new guild and help improve this community. For that, I admire your actions. But by saying I am being naive for not thinking Pizza can change is logically fallacious. Because you, too, are new to the scene (from my perspective) and thus you, too, are blind to the actions Pizza has made in the past. Thus, you are just as biased as I am, though once again in the opposite camp.
Your attempt to find a middle-ground, by trying to detect bots by "having someone see how fast one returns flags" are not adequate countermeasures and your posts in this thread show your lack of knowledge in botting in general. You are the perfect sort of target that individuals like Pizza can take advantage of becuase you have blind faith and little to no knowledge of the sorts of things that Pizza may or may not be doing.
And to those claiming SR is all about competition and fair play and having competitive matches: I can't help but cringe at these arguments. From my view, SR only cares so much as it makes them look good. Need I go back and demonstrate times Pizza used that exact same false pretense when WT and GuP were premading back in WotLK. How I had discussions with Pizza to have premades "every weekend" in an effort to help revitalize the 19 Twink competitive scene. And then, after just one match on the first weekend which WT won when we were playing subs, Pizza claims that they can't play anymore.
Why was this? Because Pizza got what he wanted. He got a win to secure his own ego and he had no interest in risking a loss in the future. For him, it wasn't about being for the greater good of the bracket. It was about him. In short, he blatantly lied to me to get what he personally wanted. Like Conq here, I blindly believed that Pizza wanted what was best for the community. Only to be betrayed later when I realized that was never Pizza's intentions at all.
Again, you can say he has changed. That's all fine and dandy and I won't argue it further. I've said what needed to be said. But the evidence showing he has been using a flag pick-up bot, that he has not made in-roads to get players up to speed on the latest advancements in flag capping, etc shows the contrary. You're free to believe what you want to believe. But you're playing with fire.
So why bother going to all these lengths to make this post?
Contrary to Chewie's beliefs, it's not out of retaliation or vindication. As I said, this would not even be an issue if Pizza hadn't decided it was a good idea to post on the HonorBuddy forums and incriminate himself for using auto flag pick-up bots in WSG. That said, I have been duped by Pizza before, and I would hate to see it happen yet again to the new twinks of this bracket.
Furthermore, and most importantly, when I first started playing 19 Twinks in BC, I was under the impression that 19 Twinking (on a competitive level) was the purest form of competition because it was so easy to get everyone on a competitive playing field:
- Everyone has the same gear.
- Everyone has the same spells.
- Everyone can use the same consumables, etc.
It was this idea of a level playing field that drew me in the most to competitive 19s. Because when all else is even, all that's left is strategy and skill to determine who is the best. Thus, it abhors me when I see some individuals covertly working to undermine this competitive equality by finding other ways to gain an illegal competitive advantage. That's not what 19 twinking is about and it goes against the spirit of competition and fair-play.
When I made those jump videos back in the day, I knew full well that these jumps would eventually become mainstream for all twinks to learn and have access to. But I thought that was a great idea. I shouldn't keep this knowledge to just myself and my guildies. Every twink should have the opportunity to learn.
Even though I don't play 19s competitively anymore, I still want to see them flourish. And I'd like to see them flourish under the same sort of level/equal playing field as I had envisioned when I first started getting involved in the 19 competitive scene. Right now, I don't see that happening. Information about the evolution of scroll clicking, jump macros, and botting has been kept close to the vest by only a select few individuals in this bracket in an attempt to suppress the majority of the twinking populace. Where is the fair play in that? Where is the sense of competition in that? Where is the honor in that?
Those are the kinds of questions I would like to leave you with. Whether the community wants to do anything about it is their choice. And if you decide not to do anything, at least you got to have some fun reading some nice, juicy drama, which is yet another great past time of 19s.
Painaid
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danny glover
Officially Retired
painaid is way smarter than you guys
danny glover
Officially Retired
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Allybomaye
Banned
It has been made clear these last few days that bots are also capable of returning flags faster and therefore have an impact on the 19 twink community given that certain community members are posting on botting forums about the Ultimate Flag Assist plugin because they "want it to return the flags as fast as possible".
/cheers
IbTc
Guest
sr should ask cipe to stay away from the forums, he makes them look stupid every time
Cipe
Legend
Been in Italy for the past few days. Didn't think there would be an outbreak in such a short amount of time.
Can't read 115 posts when I'm drunk. Sorrrrrry
Everyone is so salty on TI nowadays. Only solution seems to be report the cheaters or send blizzard an email to their bot-prevention email address.
Guilty
Thanks for the sparknotes.
Who are you?
Can't read 115 posts when I'm drunk. Sorrrrrry
Everyone is so salty on TI nowadays. Only solution seems to be report the cheaters or send blizzard an email to their bot-prevention email address.
lol, you haven't read a single post have you.
Guilty
Thanks for the sparknotes.
sr should ask cipe to stay away from the forums, he makes them look stupid every time
Who are you?
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danny glover
Officially Retired
Can't read 115 posts when I'm drunk. Sorrrrrry
Only valid excuse, you get a pass.
i wish panaid knew his facts before he posted
nothing in your rambling do you have a single cold hard fact, i think in my skimming you even threw some questions out there. you don't know half of what you're saying
didn't you go to law school or something?
oh wait, this isn't the court room like you said several pages ago, I guess that means you can continue making logical fallacies on the twink forums then.
i'll just leave this here; https://www.thebuddyforum.com/thebu...59-ultimate-flag-assistant-miss-flag-orb.html
i think you said something about this 'technology being 2+ years old'. it's 4 months old. i guess that trumps your entire point you were trying to make about him 'securing a win in the past and for the future'.
seriously dude, not hard to look shit up.
nothing in your rambling do you have a single cold hard fact, i think in my skimming you even threw some questions out there. you don't know half of what you're saying
didn't you go to law school or something?
oh wait, this isn't the court room like you said several pages ago, I guess that means you can continue making logical fallacies on the twink forums then.
i'll just leave this here; https://www.thebuddyforum.com/thebu...59-ultimate-flag-assistant-miss-flag-orb.html
i think you said something about this 'technology being 2+ years old'. it's 4 months old. i guess that trumps your entire point you were trying to make about him 'securing a win in the past and for the future'.
seriously dude, not hard to look shit up.
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Dramatized
Legend
this close thread lol
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