Best in Slot: PVE - UPDATED 5.3

I would suggest at the very minimum that you make some changes to the unholy chardev. Despite one being put forward, expertise isn't worth it for unholy (there's a similar argument for frost at 70), thus you can make use of better trinkets available to the spec. Madness of the betrayer/DST/Tsunami talisman all offer a more useful set of stats, however they may not have as useful an uptime as the Shard.



Whilst I'm at it, the retribution best glyph is the one that provides 10 expertise when using Seal of Truth/Righteous. Since these are the primary PvE seal, you can remove the expertise gems/enchants from the gear, as 16 is all the expertise you need as retribution. You could also drop out the boot enchant for icewalker, to gain enough hit and then swap the cape for the better crafted one, the Cloak of Darkness.



For protection, the paladin could also use the axe from MgT heroic, as 2.6 speed weapons are just better for threat, and it's the highest ilevel one with a socket (most stamina). failing that, one of the brutal 2.6 speed weapons works just as well. The traditional fast tanking weapons aren't of much use to anyone these days, as most of the attacks that benefitted from it were normalised, or the defense stats simply didn't exist (Back in tbc days Tempest of Chaos was BiS for protection paladins)



You've missed quite a bit out of race perks, but it's minor, since min-maxing here is much less important than it is in the #1 guilds.



All of this is meant as helpful, It's a nice thread overall.
 
Splosion said:
I would suggest at the very minimum that you make some changes to the unholy chardev. Despite one being put forward, expertise isn't worth it for unholy (there's a similar argument for frost at 70), thus you can make use of better trinkets available to the spec. Madness of the betrayer/DST/Tsunami talisman all offer a more useful set of stats, however they may not have as useful an uptime as the Shard.



Whilst I'm at it, the retribution best glyph is the one that provides 10 expertise when using Seal of Truth/Righteous. Since these are the primary PvE seal, you can remove the expertise gems/enchants from the gear, as 16 is all the expertise you need as retribution. You could also drop out the boot enchant for icewalker, to gain enough hit and then swap the cape for the better crafted one, the Cloak of Darkness.



For protection, the paladin could also use the axe from MgT heroic, as 2.6 speed weapons are just better for threat, and it's the highest ilevel one with a socket (most stamina). failing that, one of the brutal 2.6 speed weapons works just as well. The traditional fast tanking weapons aren't of much use to anyone these days, as most of the attacks that benefitted from it were normalised, or the defense stats simply didn't exist (Back in tbc days Tempest of Chaos was BiS for protection paladins)



You've missed quite a bit out of race perks, but it's minor, since min-maxing here is much less important than it is in the #1 guilds.



All of this is meant as helpful, It's a nice thread overall.
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Many of these chardevs are copies from nesylas which i have improved upon and STILL improving on.

I have totally ignored specc and glyphs.

Race perks were just the major ones.



Thank you for the positive critique.
 
Would it be better to switch Gronnstalker Spaulders to Mantle of the Golden Forest?



Since Mantle has 11 agi, 27 stam, 115 armor & 4 crit more than Gronn, whereas Gronn has 34 more haste.



both have 2 gemslots. You would lose the 4 piece bonus though.
 
Zephinism said:
Would it be better to switch Gronnstalker Spaulders to Mantle of the Golden Forest?



Since Mantle has 11 agi, 27 stam, 115 armor & 4 crit more than Gronn, whereas Gronn has 34 more haste.



both have 2 gemslots. You would lose the 4 piece bonus though.
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Losing 10% more dmg done to steady shot but gaining 11 agility? I think not.
 
I would like to add something to this thread, how people will take it i do not know, but sacrificing large amounts or "off stats" like haste for smaller amounts of "Attack Power" and "Spell Power" does not acctually increase one's dps by a lot. infact it probably works out at a DPS loss if you do.



I know that from simple dummy tests on my rogue Boró, that haste for example is quite an important stat. eventually i will re-edit this post with simulations to show exactly what i mean. however, for now, i would like to give an example of that i mean. the chest "Harness of Carnal Instinct" vs. "Bladed Chaos Tunic"...its 15 agility (%0.87 crit) + 28 critical strike rating (1.26%) vs. 38 critical stike (1.72) + 30 haste rating (1.90).



The difference is clear, the "Harness of Carnal Instinct" give more crit (2.13% crit), whereas the "Bladed Chaos Tunic" give slightly less crit (1.72%) but also gives 1.90% haste. what must now be taken into account is what haste acctually does for rogues...Haste does still increase mellee weapon speed, however, it now has a new benifit; it increases our energy regen. this means we will have energy faster to spam Sinister Strikes more and get more evicerates off within a certain amount of time. it will also increase our overall mellee damage because we will be hitting faster for a larger percentage of the time.



If you have a full BiS rogue, please test this out. get the haste trinket from Gruul's lair get double glaives, gem upto the expertise cap (which should mean you will loose 80 attack power) however you will gain a lot of haste.



Hopefully people will read this and bare in mind when they are choosing or triyng to creat "bis lists". its not just as simple as stacking the primary stats.



Thanks Boró.
 
hacksaw said:
I would like to add something to this thread, how people will take it i do not know, but sacrificing large amounts or "off stats" like haste for smaller amounts of "Attack Power" and "Spell Power" does not acctually increase one's dps by a lot. infact it probably works out at a DPS loss if you do.



I know that from simple dummy tests on my rogue Boró, that haste for example is quite an important stat. eventually i will re-edit this post with simulations to show exactly what i mean. however, for now, i would like to give an example of that i mean. the chest "Harness of Carnal Instinct" vs. "Bladed Chaos Tunic"...its 15 agility (%0.87 crit) + 28 critical strike rating (1.26%) vs. 38 critical stike (1.72) + 30 haste rating (1.90).



The difference is clear, the "Harness of Carnal Instinct" give more crit (2.13% crit), whereas the "Bladed Chaos Tunic" give slightly less crit (1.72%) but also gives 1.90% haste. what must now be taken into account is what haste acctually does for rogues...Haste does still increase mellee weapon speed, however, it now has a new benifit; it increases our energy regen. this means we will have energy faster to spam Sinister Strikes more and get more evicerates off within a certain amount of time. it will also increase our overall mellee damage because we will be hitting faster for a larger percentage of the time.



If you have a full BiS rogue, please test this out. get the haste trinket from Gruul's lair get double glaives, gem upto the expertise cap (which should mean you will loose 80 attack power) however you will gain a lot of haste.



Hopefully people will read this and bare in mind when they are choosing or triyng to creat "bis lists". its not just as simple as stacking the primary stats.



Thanks Boró.
Click to expand...



44 attack power vs. 30 haste



Lets start gemming full haste? Seems legit!
 
im not saying all stack haste. what im saying is, these "secondary stats still play a vital roll in each classes DPS/Healing. what im basically saying is, there is a balance which must be found , bare in mind it will be different for each class.
 
lets all gem spirit yo yo yo yo
 
hacksaw said:
im not saying all stack haste. what im saying is, these "secondary stats still play a vital roll in each classes DPS/Healing. what im basically saying is, there is a balance which must be found , bare in mind it will be different for each class.
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Thing is, with the exception of linear stats, 70s in SWP gear are around the useful caps for those stats. Sure haste is good, but if the rogue (subtlety in usual context) has enough haste that their energy regen + the energy from recuperate is capping them, why not stack more AP/crit?
 
Regarding the Arcane Mage chardev. It is a tough one whether to take 2 set tier 5 for the additional 5% AB damage.



I assumed from the chardev the profs would be Engineering and I would take Tailoring for cloak enchant.



If we switch in place of Tier 5 the Sunfire Robe and Amice of the Convoker, gemming and enchanting identically, you gain (self buffed) 33 SP, 390 mana, 4.57% haste and 1.51% crit.



If you weight all of those together (especially the 4.57% haste), along with fractionally more regen from Mage Armor via increased mana pool, I would say it is a close call. Bearing in mind AB up time is probably not 100% spam in a raid situation.



Thoughts?
 
mrdoobry said:
Regarding the Arcane Mage chardev. It is a tough one whether to take 2 set tier 5 for the additional 5% AB damage.



I assumed from the chardev the profs would be Engineering and I would take Tailoring for cloak enchant.



If we switch in place of Tier 5 the Sunfire Robe and Amice of the Convoker, gemming and enchanting identically, you gain (self buffed) 33 SP, 390 mana, 4.57% haste and 1.51% crit.



If you weight all of those together (especially the 4.57% haste), along with fractionally more regen from Mage Armor via increased mana pool, I would say it is a close call. Bearing in mind AB up time is probably not 100% spam in a raid situation.



Thoughts?
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AB is basicly 99% ^^
 
Spiritflow said:
What are they going to cast? Frostbolt?
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AM on proc to reset mana stacks? Or is being BiS with full raid buffs mean you can spam hasted AB for 2 mins none-stop inbetween evocation CD's? If that is the case I need to get BiS on mine.
<
 
mrdoobry said:
AM on proc to reset mana stacks? Or is being BiS with full raid buffs mean you can spam hasted AB for 2 mins none-stop inbetween evocation CD's? If that is the case I need to get BiS on mine.
<
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If you and your raid know how to coordinate things, yes, a BiS arcane mage can spam AB for the duration of pretty much any fight in SWP.
 
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