Best in Slot Player vs. Player

I would like to thank everyone for the suggestions and Esotra for pointing out what my intent was using the blue tinket over the epic one.

I have made the changes suggested and tried to improve everything as much as i could.



Seems great that it's the comunity it self that is building up the list !



Edit : Xavizi doing that might work till you find some healer who somehow manage to heal thru the initial burst wile you are taking 10 k frostbolts as a rogue, this is why i did not insert it.
 
I was just pointing it out If this is a proper guide of gear, Maybe you should add different sets of gear. Lots of mages use alot of pve gear so do rogues. I was just pointing it out as the majority do use full Pve



P.s In arenas I atculy use 4 piece brutal.
 
Good job but Chardev's are far from BiS, least the ones I checked (disc/rogue), there is no point in using pve wrists as disc since there is no socket gain, and rogue backstab specc is meant to be full pve gear or at least close to it. Just some examples but overall gj
 
Good job but Chardev's are far from BiS, least the ones I checked (disc/rogue), there is no point in using pve wrists as disc since there is no socket gain, and rogue backstab specc is meant to be full pve gear or at least close to it. Just some examples but overall gj

Well the gear obviously comes out to people, i do as well go in full Player vs. Environment gear in arena but i do as well get nearly one shot if a mage get's a frostbolt off, so in facts having some resilience is a good thing.

I'v said it few times already, i honestly did my best and i hope that the comunity will help me improve those chardevs who are a beginning and not the ultimate stage, if you have improvements i could add or things i could change just say.
 
pritty sure counting as the disc chardev is as shadow spec and using a half shadow half disc set this needs some work!
 
since everbody has engi, i think everybody should use lightning generator, cause the stats of this trinket are op as hell
 
btw. should enchant the gloves of holy paladin gear with 20 hit, otherwise you aren't capped



why are the most chardevs equiped with battlemaster? battlemaster is much worse than other trinkets
 
hunter oh bis is the kara dag, 3 slots. instead of the battlemaster trink, you shld get the sunwell one from muru, or the dragonspine trophy from gron.
 
btw. should enchant the gloves of holy paladin gear with 20 hit, otherwise you aren't capped



why are the most chardevs equiped with battlemaster? battlemaster is much worse than other trinkets

depending on how u spec( if ur good ) you get around 20% hit in pvp gear anyway from spirit









hunter oh bis is the kara dag, 3 slots. instead of the battlemaster trink, you shld get the sunwell one from muru, or the dragonspine trophy from gron.



dst for sure i would say over sliver
 
for feral druids, im pretty sure sunwell t2.5 is alot better then the gear you used, as it doesnt sacrafice agi for int and has the correct sockets!





sunwell t2.5 melee leather (for rogues)
 
depending on how u spec( if ur good ) you get around 20% hit in pvp gear anyway from spirit



Yea i agree, but there are other talents which are much better than the 100% spirit = hit talent, putting only 1 point in that talent, allows you to gain other nice stuff and you can also get hitcap with only 50% spirit = hit.



How do you get 20% hit? As healpala, you dont wear the spirit items, you wear the haste items, cause you need haste. Youre making something wrong
 
I found many inconsistencies w/ BiS Frost twinking and your chardev. I'm sure it's just oversight or difference of opinion, but here you go:



1. Most PVP cases have Leggings of the Tempest (PVE Set Legs) over the Leggings of Calamity. Granted, the legs you used (Calamity) have 2 extra gem slots. HOWEVER, You lose the 5% bonus to Frostbolt which is very likely much better than 40 intellect. That said, the bonus also scales with your stats. The last feature that the Tempest legs bring is hit rating. You forgot to make up for hit rating when you removed the gear that doesn't have it.



TL;DR: Leggings of the Tempest > Leggings of Calamity



2. Using the downgraded Battlemaster's trinket is probably not worth the time. As a frost mage, you are spending the majority of your time kiting while trying to get off casts/lances and keeping shields up. For this reason, your actual heath pool isn't quite as important as other peoples. Especially considering how you have 2 Ice Blocks which can be used to prevent damage, buy time, etc. If you're using it for the intellect, there are many better trinkets than have just as much or more. The most popular trinket is the Skull of Gul'dan.



TL;DR: Skull of Gul'dan / Shifting Naaru Silver > Battlemaster's Perseverance





3. I've seen some Frost Mage's gem haste, but I don't see it as often anymore since the gcd change. While some haste is nice in order to get faster Frostbolts out, I'd much rather stack intellect + use the Skull of Gul'dan in order to put put maximum pressure on the opponent. Also, at the moment, your haste level leaves you just short of being able to cast 3 frostbolts during a deep freeze (w/ icy veins up). Keep in mind that you need 10% haste to get 2 FB's and an instant during a deep freeze and 50% haste to do so w/ 3 FB's and an instant.



TL;DR: Intellect > Haste gems for Frost w/ the proper trinket.



More on gems and survivability: The main reason I really wouldn't gem haste is that your mana pool is basically your health pool as a Frost Mage. You need lots of mana to soak damage with Ice Barrier, Mana Shield, Mage Ward, you need it to emergency root (Cone of Cold) and obviously you need it to kill someone. While Mage Armor does generate a good amount of mana, gemming Intellect not only raises your mana pool significantly, it also slightly raises the amount you absorb w/ spells and the amount of damage you do.



4. Maybe it's personal preference, but I, like a lot of others prefer the Tattered Cape of Antonidas over the Volanthius Shroud. It gives more Intellect, Stam, and Haste which are going to be your most important stats once you've soft capped crit @ 28.33%.



TL;DR: Tattered Cape of Antonidas > Volanthius Shroud if gemming offensively.





5. There's absolutely no benefit to taking Reactive Barrier unless you simply can't cast Ice Barrier yourself on time. Maybe there's a small mana benefit, but I'd rather spend those points adding more chills or lengthening ice lance's range. If you really have mana issues, either move haste to intellect as mentioned, or move a point into Frost Mage Replenishment.



TL;DR: Almost any other talent is better than Reactive Barrier. It's simply a pointless talent for any good frost mage.



6. You completely forgot about hit rating and spell penetration. Not using the Leggings of the Tempest forces you to gem for more hit rating and for some odd reason you used the Brutal Gladiator's Endgame isn't of the Grimoire. I realize that you lose 16 stamina and 6 intellect by using the Grimoire, but since you're a magical damage dealer and you absolutely must have Spell Penetration, it's most definitely worth it. Otherwise you're losing 40 of whatever stat you gem for.



TL;DR: Remember to gem for hit rating/spell penetration. Brutal Gladiator's Grimoire is better than the Endgame given that you need spell penetration.





Here's an updated CharDev with all the differences, if you don't agree, that's fine, but this is the setup that I've seen most mages running with nowadays.



Frost Mage BiS (Skull & Resilience Build)
  • You'll notice that the mana pool has increased from 15.7k to 16.6k even though I've gained 70 resilience. The haste level has fallen alot, but with the one use ability of the Skull along w/ Icy Veins, you can pump out damage very quickly. The build has also gained enough spell penetration to be effective, hit rating to hit level 70's and enough intellect to make the set bonus from the PVE piece to be quite nice.

Frost Mage BiS (Skull & Intellect Build)
  • You'll notice here the real benefits of gemming for Intellect instead of haste. I've matched resilience to your build, yet I have almost 2k ore mana, and buffs aren't even applied. The build also has 100 more spell power and over 100 more intellect. It is missing 70 stamina (700 HP) but as I've mentioned, you have to look at your HP as your base health and then your shields as you real health, you just need to know that your shields can be dispelled.

Last but not least:









Consider glyphing for Evocation instead of Polymorph in certain situations. For example, if you're in 2's with a Sub Rogue, you can simply have him blind to remove dots if neccesary. Not that it should be, given that you have no dots outside of Frostfire Bolt glyphed. He does sure, but unless you're target switching, you're fine and if you do, that's what blind is for. Granted, Polymorph will be better in some situations, but Evocation is better any time you can CC without worrying about dots on your target.



Also, you can take the extra talent points and place them in either Piercing Chill, Permafrost, or Ice Shards. Permafrost is good because it heals your pet a bit and slows the enemy a little more. Piercing Chill can be nice if you're a frequent BG'er or tend to have multiple targets around alot. Ice Shards is best if you spam Ice Lance very often.



Speaking of Ice Lance, I'd suggest using the Frostfire Bolt glyph in most situations. It adds a whopping 15% more damage to the cast. Granted, you'll only be using this instantly, but in a burst situation where you're putting out 2-3 frostbolts on a frozen target with an instant to finish them off, Frostfire can hit WAAAY harder than Ice Lance. Using the Ice Lance glyph will be better for overall damage due to the fact that we're often forced to Lance spam, but that damage usually isn't what wins us a match. That said, if playing with a class that gives you 5% crit (Sub Rogue, Feral Druid, Warrior) you can remove the Frostbolt glyph given that you'll already be hitting the soft cap for all spells if you've geared properly.

For those of you wondering, the crit soft cap for Frost Mages is 33.33% for spells. This percent guarantees a crit on a frozen target (crit suppresssion notwithstanding).



The reason this rating is so important is that in Arena, most of our burst comes when we deep freeze a target and/or shatter them. This is one of the reasons that many frost mages will take burst stats/pieces over other stats/pieces which would have a greater benefit overall. A Frost Mage isn't the one to do the most damage most of the time. Instead, he's the guy who controls the enemy team and sets up kill sequences with Deep Freezes, Shatters and more.







I haven't looked at the rest of the profiles, but I'll note what I can later. I do want to note that it's quite obvious that for many of the profiles you simply took a screen shot of someone's armory. Keep in mind that there is no real BiS Player vs. Player for every situation. Arena and BG's are completely different scenarios and therefore require different gear. Likewise, players don't have the same playstyle and therfore require different gems, enchants etc. I think the point of a BiS list is to give the most common setup for each class/spec. That said, many of these setups are not the most common. For example, almost every caster I know uses or has Skull of Gul'dan. Alot less people use any sort of Battlemaster's trinkets, especially the lower leveled ones. Yet you have them as BiS for alot of classes. Please keep in mind that this will be read by alot of people, so instead of copying and pasting a profile, it is more beneficial for the community that more research is put into each one.



EDIT: More on DK's



1. Borderland Paingrips are most certainly BiS compared to the stock PVP gloves. This is true for a few reasons. First, they have two sockets which allow you to gain more resilience or strength depending on the situation. Second, You do not have to worry about losing a 4 piece bonus of the hands bonus since the DK set was created as an afterthought by blizzard.



TL;DR: Borderland Paingrips > Brutal Gladtiator's Gauntlets



2. You should atleast mention Dreadboots of the Legion. I know that you don't like them because you lose 16 stamina, 10 crit and only gain 10 resilience if gemming for resilience, but if you're gemming for strength, they are a massive upgrade.



TL;DR: Dreadboots of the Legion > Guardian's Plate Greaves when gemming offensively



3. The Unstoppable Aggresor's Ring is better in any situation where you want more Strength. As a DK, strength scales very well, much better than equivalent attack power. Given that you only lose 19 resilience rating, this ring is a better alternative if you have a healer. It's also most definitely BiS for Unholy given that they have 20% more base strength. It plays very well for Frost too when Pillar of Frost is up. This is one of the reasons that many twink DK's like Synapse Springs so much, because their buffs and class abilities enhance strength by large margins.



TL;DR: Unstoppable Agressor's Ring > Sin'dorei Band of Triumph w/ a healer present



4. Brutal Gladiator's Chopper/Cleaver allows for larger crits for Frost DK's. This is minor change and can go either way given that the Axe has a lower bottom end, but a higher top end.



5. Unless you really need 15 stamina, using the Tuskarr's Vitality enchant as a Frost DK is pointless. The movement speed increase would only be useful if you ran in Blood or Frost presence, which you would only do is rare situations. 32 attack power is definitely better than 15 stamina for more people.



By making the changes mentioned, outside of the boots which are variable, you gain almost 60 strength and 74 attack power. You only lose 20 resilience, and 100 hp.



All in all, I can see why you chose the Sin'dorei Band and the Greaves over the pieces I mentioned. The gloves on the other hand are quite obviously better in almost any situation. Also, you should mention that most talented Dual-Wield Frost DKs have two off hand weapons, one with Swordshattering, one with Razorice. Given that you can switch them any time you want, a skilled player will be able to see that there is a disarmer present and switch before it happens. Razorice adds 10% more damage to frost attacks once applied.
 
I haven't looked at the rest of the profiles, but I'll note what I can later. I do want to note that it's quite obvious that for many of the profiles you simply took a screen shot of someone's armory. Keep in mind that there is no real BiS Player vs. Player for every situation. Arena and BG's are completely different scenarios and therefore require different gear. Likewise, players don't have the same playstyle and therfore require different gems, enchants etc. I think the point of a BiS list is to give the most common setup for each class/spec. That said, many of these setups are not the most common. For example, almost every caster I know uses or has Skull of Gul'dan. Alot less people use any sort of Battlemaster's trinkets, especially the lower leveled ones. Yet you have them as BiS for alot of classes. Please keep in mind that this will be read by alot of people, so instead of copying and pasting a profile, it is more beneficial for the community that more research is put into each one.

The reason why i have done this is because the previous thread got removed. Therefore the necessity of having a new list, being said that i do not have the knowledge on every class / situation but only an overview i did look up for the most known players taking the profile and changing a few things as removing buffs given by professions and or moving a few things here or there. My intent was to give a base to work and model out, i wanted the 70's comunity to actually work out something togheter and not just me spending countless days making up the mats for every class, which would have probably turned me insane.

And the response so far has been very positive.

So thank you for partecipating, i really hope so see more people sharing toughts and working out something that everyone can apreciate and feel proud of.
 
The quote mentioned was not meant to be a criticism, just started rambling, sorry
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. I know that the thread was deleted and know that you're trying to help. I will make a list of BiS trinkets other than Battlemaster's types and continue to take a look at each class that I have a decent knowledge base on. That said, as you can see by my notes on Frost Mage and Death Knight, there are many pieces which can go either way.



Specific things I've noticed so far:



Borderland Paingrips are BiS for almost any strength user.

Some warriors use the PVE bonus, others don't. As you can see, you lose alot of stamina by doing so.

Skull of Gul'dan is BiS for almost every caster, Memento of Tyrande for almost every healer. This is especially true for casters with DoTs and healers with mana troubles.



Trinkets:

(Links coming soon)



AP Users:

Figurine - Shadowsong Panther (Equiv to Beserker's Call) - Best on use in game atm

Sonic Booster (81 stam, 430 ap proc) - Great for stamina boost + AP proc

Blackened Naaru Silver (54 Haste, 120-160 AP avg) - BiS in terms of damage output



Casters:

Skull of Gul'dan (47 Intellect, 25 Hit Rating, 175 Haste on use) - Best for DoT classes, Frost Mage, etc

Quagmirran's Eye - Less useful but similar to the Skull, can be nice for intro twink Frost Mage

Shifting Naaru Silver (54 haste, 320 Spell power on use) - Best if a Haste on use won't be that great, good 2nd trinket for Human

Noise Machine (54 Intellect, 1k Shield proc)



Healers:

Memento of Tyrande (53 Intellect, 160 spirit proc)

Glimmering Naaru Silver (54 Intellect, 2k mana return)



More:

Gnomish Lightning Generator: (81 crit rating, 1-2k bolt on use)



That said, most twinks that haven't run SWP will use either Sonic Booster or Noise Machine w/ GLG if Human. BiS tends to go like this: Skull for almost all casters, unless Haste isn't a great priority or will gcd cap you, then Shifting Naaru Silver. Blackened Naaru Silver for most AP users, with the Figurine being a great alternative if you want an on use. Alot of AP users will migrate towards Battlemasters and or the Sonic Booster as well. Gnomish Lightning Generator is a great trinket if you don't like the alternatives, especially if you highly value crit. Healers almost always use the Memento over the GNS, GNS is channeled with an extremely long cooldown.



One last thing to note: Some warriors will use the Steely Naaru Silver as their trinket. It's essentially a Battlemaster's trinket, but has a much longer cooldown. The reason they'll use it is because it gives 54 expertise, and Warriors absolutely need to be soft capped w/ expertise. That said, it's completely legit to gem for expertise and use a different Battlemaster's trinket or preferably the Blackened Naaru Silver/Figurine.



As far as the Battlemaster's trinket go, they can be useful, but I mainly see AP users, specifically melee that don't have good damage reduction cooldowns using them. Don't get me wrong, they can be clutch when it comes to surviving, but given the usefulness of the other trinkets out there, especially with regards to specific class mechanics (Frost Mage haste, large on use damage moments, etc) there are just better alternatives. The old Battlemaster's trinkets were much more useful, mostly because they just gave way more stats and were actually competitve when it comes to damage output. Nowadays, none are actually competitive with their DPS counter-parts, atleast when it comes to putting out damage/healing. If you really want a stop gap to dying, and/or you're a flag carrier, go ahead. However, if you just want some extra leeway, I'd recommend the Sonic Booster for AP users instead. It gives alot of Stamina and a decent AP proc. Granted, its not as much static AP, but in most cases you're trying to put out max damage in a small window of time.
 

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