Best 2h Weapons

Discussion in '49s (Vanilla)' started by Persuasive, Sep 24, 2019.

Share This Page

  1. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    You're missing half of my point. Executioner's Cleaver will have more damage than Glowing Brightwood Staff at 49 due to scaling.

    Tooltips in a vacuum don't illustrate the bigger picture.
     
  2. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Could you explain more about scaling, using EC and Brightwood Staff as examples?

    All I'm doing here is converting dps into average weapon damage per swing, which is Weapon DPS + (AP / 14) * [Weapon Speed]. If there's another coefficient for weapon speed, I don't know anything about it and could definitely be a game changer.
     
  3. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    My third example. AP increases dps at a flat rate. You get more weapon damage per dps for slower weapons.

    10 dps 1.0 sec = 10 a hit
    10 dps 2.0 sec = 20 a hit

    increase dps by 1

    11 dps 1.0 sec = 11 a hit
    11 dps 2.0 sec = 22 a hit

    1 dps increase makes the 1.0 second weapon hit 1 damage harder
    1 dps increase makes the 2.0 second weapon hit 2 damage harder

    Slower weapons damage scales better with attack power. Executioners cleaver will (by around 40-50) hit harder than glowing bright wood staff.

    Just put all your gear in the wowhead gear planner. You're missing the forest for the trees.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 1, 2019 ---
    I cherry picked the highest AP set I could find just to further illustrate my point

    https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pl...QGTu0HKYkITp_KJahOLQE1C0UxDEw3TzxDBLEQAywSMu8
    Glowing Brightwood Staff

    https://classic.wowhead.com/gear-pl...QGTu0HKYkITp_KJahOLQE1C0UxDEw3TzxDBLEQMtoSMu8
    Executioner's Cleaver

    Sorry if I'm coming of as pedantic. I really enjoy discussing this stuff with people who are actually trying to think why something is good rather than following copy/pasted guides.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Edit: The normalized weapon damage formula can be found here, and only applies to instant attacks, not white damage.

    So we definitely got our wires crossed in this thread, and I've added white damage to the original post as well, based on wowhead's calculator.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  5. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    okay this is how I know I that weapon dps really doesn't matter
    by your math nightblade is the best weapon in 39.

    this was common knowledge at 39 back in bc / wrath:
    anyone that says nightblade is the best weapon at 39 is dumb and should be made fun of

    Edit: was sauced when I posted this toned it down
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  6. Warglave

    Warglave Member

    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    83
    qft
     
  7. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Hi everyone, I updated the first post with a lot of revised and new information.

    For starters, I removed the non-normalized calculations and replaced them with normalized calculations. I also spent a lot of time trying to puzzle out why my figures were so different from what wowhead's gear planner was coming up with, and I realized that normalized damage values (the formula for which can be found here) were only applied to instant attacks, so things like Mortal Strike, Overpower and Whirlwind. Not white damage, which is what wowhead's calculator displays.

    With that in mind, I've included normalized damage for instant attacks, white damage, AND mortal strike damage (and crits!) to the first post. I hope it clears up some confusion and helps some people out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    edit: was wrong
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  9. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'm afraid you've lost me again.

    I'm operating under the assumption that base weapon damage is tooltip damage because that's what it says here.

    "Base weapon damage is a weapon's inherent damage, displayed in the weapon's tooltip."

    Another interesting resource I came across while reading up on all this was this page, where a guy discovers that the Classic beta was using Legion's normalization values instead of Vanilla's. He's got a bunch of his testing written out, which is similar to how I've done it and where I got the idea to include Mortal Strike values.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    ok then if thats how it works then I'm definitely wrong about instant attacks

    I got white hit scaling mixed up with it. I'm too hung up on shaman where white hits > all

    edit: I multibox four warriors / shaman and I've been glancing over their combat logs now that you got me interested. Somethings off but I don't have a big enough sample yet. You're closer to being right now than I was.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I have a hard time imagining anything beat PoD's weapon damage at 39, but now you got me curious to look into it... who knows, little math could end up saving people a few thousand gold LOL

    Edit: I did the math.

    39 Warrior with 500 AP

    Pendulum of Doom:
    242-305
    Normalized Weapon Damage (Whirlwind & Overpower)
    266-330 White Damage
    74.52 dps

    Nightblade:
    215-264 Normalized Weapon Damage
    196-246 White Damage
    79.04 dps

    Staff of Jordan:
    236-298 Normalized Weapon Damage
    250-312 White Damage
    76.05 dps

    Nothing else even comes remotely close, so there's no point in checking more.

    I could maybe see Nightblade with Fiery being useful for high-AP, low-crit sword builds against something like a disc. priest, since you don't have Mortal Strike in this bracket and they won't be dodging much for Overpower procs.

    Faster swings and more consistent rage generation + higher dps has its uses against targets you aren't jousting and are frequently rage-starved against, but for 95% of your gameplay I think people basically have it right with PoD and Crusader.

    Ironically, if you're an enh shaman, Staff of Jordan might be on par with or even more useful than PoD for the stats and spell damage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Horksuss

    Horksuss New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Stoneslayer vs Kang, which is better? Sword spec is betteer. Stoneslayer is slower but it has less max damage. Did they not normalize the instant attacks anyway resulting in Kang hitting harder with instant attacks?
     
  13. Strokes

    Strokes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Instant attacks are normalized so Kang's is better for MS / WW because its base damage is 4 higher than stoneslayer.

    Stoneslayer autos outscale Kang's at ~280 AP.

    You'll be around ~700ap with a balanced set - at ~700ap kang's will hit ~4 damage harder on instants, and stoneslayer will hit ~10 damage harder on auto attacks.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Smiffy

    Smiffy world BIS 39 warlock retail

    Messages:
    336
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Does The Jackhammer have any home in 40-49?

    I've picked one up for ridiculously cheap.
     
  15. Selaya

    Selaya <3 Head Admin

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    63
    why is pod not even on the shortlist
     
  16. Halfstep-NZ

    Halfstep-NZ Member

    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    73
    Trophy Points:
    28
    How's lumbering orge axe and pacifier match up using your math?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    There's just no conceivable advantage to using it in this bracket as far as I can tell. It's worse than EC in every metric.

    PoD
    ((650/14)*3.3) + [127-191] = 277-340
    Expected Mortal Strike Damage: 387-450
    Expected Mortal Strike Crit: 774-900
    Normal Attack Range: 296-360
    DPS: 82.09

    vs.

    Executioner's Cleaver
    ((696/14)*3.3) + [127-191] = 291-355
    Expected Mortal Strike Damage: 401-465
    Expected Mortal Strike Crit: 802-930
    Normal Attack Range: 315-380
    DPS: 91.48


    For Lumbering Ogre Axe (530 AP):
    230-283 Normalized Damage
    252-306 White Damage
    71.5 DPS

    Pacifier (536 AP):
    230-282 Normalized Damage
    256-309 White Damage
    70.71 DPS
     
  18. Selaya

    Selaya <3 Head Admin

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    392
    Trophy Points:
    63
    you guys are completely and totally missing the point of pod/pvp then

    bc the reason you use the pod is to oneshot guys with the proc ...
    3 additional dps won't win you games, but a doubleproc from pod will
     
  19. Warglave

    Warglave Member

    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    501
    Trophy Points:
    83
    DOES NOT COMPUTE
    ERROR
    ERROR
    ERROR
    REBOOT. SYSTEM FAILURE IMMINENT.
     
  20. OP
    Persuasive

    Persuasive Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    28
    If it has a high ppm I can see it being useful here, but I've never used one and figured with damage that high it was very low.

    I've also never heard anyone talk about the PoD procs being meta relevant, only its speed/top-end, since I don't play 39s lol
     

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)

Share This Page