EU+US artefact grind is killing my soul

Millow said:
Hey, I've looked at your profile and I was wondering, would you favor for example, an 840 with a socket over an 845 without one ? What would be your minimum ilvl difference to prefer one over the other ?

Edit: How did you get the Rivermane sandals ? Thx
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I would say "always" use a socketed item over an item without a socket any day, but then again, if you have an 835 with a socket and can snatch up an 890 without a socket for a reasonable price, then that's up to you :p

I'm 99% sure I got Rivermane Sandals from the first boss in Nelth. You can get better from Mythic HFC, but I'm in no rush since Crafted BoE Legenary Boots will be on the Auction House sometime in the future.
 
Winterly said:
I would say "always" use a socketed item over an item without a socket any day, but then again, if you have an 835 with a socket and can snatch up an 890 without a socket for a reasonable price, then that's up to you :p
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All right, so let's say an 835 socketed Samnoh would be better in your opinion than an 840 non socketed ? I saw a few posts online but the answer wasn't always clear cut...
 
Millow said:
All right, so let's say an 835 socketed Samnoh would be better in your opinion than an 840 non socketed ? I saw a few posts online but the answer wasn't always clear cut...
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It all depends on the Piece + Stats you are after, Chest/Legs/Helm all provide more stats than other pieces therefore iLvl increase are much more important on these, where as with something like Bracers the stats will barely increase each iLvl. usually a socket IMO is around 5-15 iLvl increase. Socket is also important if your looking for specific stats, for EX boomy's want 50% haste, so you can fill in what your missing with sockets, or Warlocks/Hunters stack mastery and some pieces don't give it so they may grab a socketed version to continue stacking that stat.
 
Complicacy said:
I could possibly see your Sims as correct for an Artifact with both 810 Relics.
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So, as I suspected/suggested, for a stock Artifact without 810 relics, the BoE Mace is better. Thank you for the investigation, I really appreciate it that you took the time to do this. It's also so much simpler and straight forward to just buy a BoE than grind AP forever. As OP said, it is soul sucking to grind AP.
 
Complicacy said:
So I finally made an account due to this post, DO NOT GO BY SIMS.
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Because? ...

Your test was done with what artifact weapon (item level / rank)? That's is the most important question and you left it out. Because there is a h-u-g-e difference between a 750 / rank 1 layout and a 764+ / rank 18 one. And ofc the stronger your artifact weapon gets, the bigger the gap. Which you can try to compensate with a higher item level of your mace.

The sims were done with a rank 18 artifact i guess.
 
MyPerfection said:
Because? ...

Your test was done with what artifact weapon (item level / rank)? That's is the most important question and you left it out. Because there is a h-u-g-e difference between a 750 / rank 1 layout and a 764+ / rank 18 one. And ofc the stronger your artifact weapon gets, the bigger the gap. Which you can try to compensate with a higher item level of your mace.

The sims were done with a rank 18 artifact i guess.
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Understandable, I assumed people would think I am an average geared twink. My Artifact Weapon is at 16 & I have 2 Rare Relics (ilvl764 weapon) One being Moonfire & other being Sunfire, I have also progressed my traits to Moonfire/Sunfire instead of Echo Stars. Around 19 is where you really won't see the average twink progress past and 16-19 isn't really huge, at least for boomkins. I have no doubt 870+ BoE mace is the way to go as long as the relics are not obtainable for Boomkins, However a key point you stated one as you get stronger so does the Artifact weapon since most of the traits boost by a % instead of the set in stone stat increases with the BoE mace.

841 iLvl here is the twink I did the testing on: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Xwr/advanced

Edit: Just saw your post Millow and Thank You :) happy to know my investments helping others.
 
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Aelobin said:
Could you log out with your artifact on please, so I can check your traits/relics for further testing :)
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Sorry just seeing this now, Have just logged out with it equipped.
 
Complicacy said:
So I finally made an account due to this post, DO NOT GO BY SIMS. What possible fight goes for 3-5 mins as a twink? What specific traits are being tested? In my real world testing I've found an 845 Mace to be on par with the Artifact weapon, Yes of course there are specialty situations one may preform better than the other such as Mace providing more haste for quicker pulling, or if you have Starfall up 24/7 with tons of mobs actually staying inside of it then yes Mastery/Artifact weapon would be good or if Starsurge a lot. I find the only time I actually cast is on Bosses which I assume casting is Simd in everything. *Instanced pvp Artifact Weapon should always be better*

I could possibly see your Sims as correct for an Artifact with both 810 Relics.

Also would like to take this time to say I was the one who posted about the 810 Relics on WowEconomy... I really didn't expect a reaction like you guys had... it was common sense to me, expand testing on something no one in the thread has confirmed for them self/conditions & bring more knowledge about it so we can actually buy these things instead of them being vendored.

EDIT: Just would like to state my real world testing has not been extensive enough to give any serious recommendation. Just did back 2 back Nelth Lairs, 855 BoE pulled in 4k less DPS (416k) at the end (due to having to tag a single mob) but had higher DPS than artifact at nearly every other part.
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Hey hellortha! How's it going lol, alterscene here ;D
 
Complicacy said:
Sorry just seeing this now, Have just logged out with it equipped.
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Thanks. So I re-simmed using your gear and artifact. It's obviously up to you how much faith you do or don't put in sims. I personally think it's the closest thing we have to a definitive answer but I'll admit they haven't updated it for 7.2 yet.

Burst over 30 secs: 481k (AF), 424k (895 mace), 401k (870 mace)

Sustained over 1-3 mins: 330k (AF), 282k (895 mace), 266k (870 mace)

That's a huge dps loss, which was expected (imo) because of how powerful the AF traits/ability are. Of course it's possible that me and/or the sims are wrong but I doubt it would be out by that far.

In the end, use what you want, it doesn't matter to me :p
 
Hypno said:
Archeology made it so much easier and quicker. Otherwise id prolly give up.
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Not everyone is having luck with this. Did around 7-8 digsites and got about 500ap. Couldnt find any elites either
 
Aelobin said:
Thanks. So I re-simmed using your gear and artifact. It's obviously up to you how much faith you do or don't put in sims. I personally think it's the closest thing we have to a definitive answer but I'll admit they haven't updated it for 7.2 yet.

Burst over 30 secs: 481k (AF), 424k (895 mace), 401k (870 mace)

Sustained over 1-3 mins: 330k (AF), 282k (895 mace), 266k (870 mace)

That's a huge dps loss, which was expected (imo) because of how powerful the AF traits/ability are. Of course it's possible that me and/or the sims are wrong but I doubt it would be out by that far.

In the end, use what you want, it doesn't matter to me :p
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The closet thing we have to a definitive answer is the definitive answer... I've used both in real world situations. I've USED the artifact weapon and had NO dps increase. It's all fine that Sims say this magic number, but can you actually create the difference? I'd be happy to try whatever you guys can come up with that I'm not using in my rotations or whatever can account to create this dps difference, but for now I can say that in the real world you won't be losing DPS upgrading to a 850+ BoE wep.

Not trying to sound rude, just trying to say this is actual evidence not a theory.
1% dps difference, compared to 20-25% stated is huge.

AlterScene said:
Hey hellortha! How's it going lol, alterscene here ;D
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Hey Alterscene :) Doing good, finally joined up xD. How about you?
 
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Millow said:
My god, ilvl 841, even if I had the money I couldn't buy the gear you have, my low pop server is very disappointing gear wise...
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Yeah I started my first twink (Veng DH) on a new realm due to my original being full, I guess I was lucky it was as the realm I picked had tons of BoE stock. Started there with 13k & some battle pets and now have 4 twinks fully geared which paid for themselves estimated I spent around 4m+ on them total, just takes some dedication to farming with them.
 
Complicacy said:
Not trying to sound rude, just trying to say this is actual evidence not a theory.
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Apart from your word, I haven't seen anything that most would consider actual "evidence" :p What targets did you test on? How much dps did you do with each option? How many times did you test it? Got any useful screenshots or logs?

I feel like we're just arguing for the sake of arguing now though. I don't play boomkin and I doubt I ever will so I have no real investment in finding the answer. If you find the mace works best for you then use it and if you want to share that info with others on here then go for it, but similarly I'll share the info I have and then people can make their own decisions :)
 
Aelobin said:
Apart from your word, I haven't seen anything that most would consider actual "evidence" :p What targets did you test on? How much dps did you do with each option? How many times did you test it? Got any useful screenshots or logs?

I feel like we're just arguing for the sake of arguing now though. I don't play boomkin and I doubt I ever will so I have no real investment in finding the answer. If you find the mace works best for you then use it and if you want to share that info with others on here then go for it, but similarly I'll share the info I have and then people can make their own decisions :)
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I don't see why I would finally register just to lie, but no I don't have any screenshots did not think they would be necessary.

On my first post it lists I ran Neltharion's Lair twice (Exact same runs except St on one extra mob pulled on 855 BOE run after 2nd boss), my 855 Weapon pulled in 416k DPS which I put is 4k less so the Artifact Weapon achieved 420k DPS at the end of the run. I tested it twice after seeing this thread but have been testing it at places I farm and can't tell a difference except slower tagging speed at Goats with the Artifact.

I personally am not arguing for the sake, I want to clear this up for any potential twinks on the edge about this(Since AP farming takes DAYS, and hearing 20% dps loss instead of 1% can be a huge turn off) & be able to see if there is something I am doing wrong to not be seeing a more noticeable difference, also to say that Sims should be taken lightly, they are just theory's that you must test because no simulation will play exactly like real people or be bugged/not account for something.
 
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You would have lost the ability to use full moon with the mace right?

That would hamper your single target burst
 
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