are there any 29 classes with no gf is bis

[willix]

So since today's twinking is as good as it used to be, I assume you have games popping every 15-20 minutes every day of the week right? You also have weekly premades with several topnotch guilds I would imagine, right? I mean its cool that you still enjoy twinking and everything, and I'm sure its reasonably fun to kill people in the span of a couple globals, but there's a reason why you have to organize specific days to even get pops in various twink brackets. Most good players twinked because there was a very high skill cap at the top of the twinking hierarchy. With across the board nerfs to stamina due to the removal of Leg Armor Kits, higher damage per hit, and people being relegated to a single tree, twinking is nowhere NEAR of the level it used to be. Im not even sure why you would debate this when you dont have consistent games.

Your bar for 'twinking is gud' is 24/7 games? Have you not seen the current 19s, 24s, or 70s brackets? This post right here tells me that you're horribly out of touch with twinking. I find it funny that you would latch onto twinking at a time when it completely dependent on levelers to be viable. No, I'd much rather have to schedule games than deal with the headache of playing with incompetent people whom aren't the least bit interested in improving their game.

 

[Falaris]

Your bar for 'twinking is gud' is 24/7 games? Have you not seen the current 19s, 24s, or 70s brackets? This post right here tells me that you're horribly out of touch with twinking. I find it funny that you would latch onto twinking at a time when it completely dependent on levelers to be viable. No, I'd much rather have to schedule games than deal with the headache of playing with incompetent people whom aren't the least bit interested in improving their game.

You are the first person to mention XP-on characters. I never mentioned it, implied it, or even cared to discuss it. Also, we're talking about the 29 bracket here. 19's has always been active, and of all the twink brackets probably always will be active. How often do games pop here in 29s? Do you have games going nonstop? Do you have guild vs guild premades on pretty close to a daily basis? You say that I'm out of touch, yet you weren't even twinking at a time when games popped nonstop in the XP-off bracket?

Before you start getting all indignant at someone pointing out that games have died down you should probably get your facts straight. This doesn't even address imbalances attributed to lower health pools combined with higher damage abilities, nor does it address a dumbed down talent tree for twinks.

 

[Ohai]

I don't understand how this is even an argument. This bracket has seen better days in terms of skill, balance (in both gear and skills), and general activity.

 

[soskanky]

Two epic trolls butting heads. <3 falaris

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[willix]

You are the first person to mention XP-on characters. I never mentioned it, implied it, or even cared to discuss it. Also, we're talking about the 29 bracket here. 19's has always been active, and of all the twink brackets probably always will be active. How often do games pop here in 29s? Do you have games going nonstop? Do you have guild vs guild premades on pretty close to a daily basis? You say that I'm out of touch, yet you weren't even twinking at a time when games popped nonstop in the XP-off bracket?

Before you start getting all indignant at someone pointing out that games have died down you should probably get your facts straight. This doesn't even address imbalances attributed to lower health pools combined with higher damage abilities, nor does it address a dumbed down talent tree for twinks.

You mentioned twinking back when there were leg kits..... which was before 3.2 and bracket segregation. Coincidentally, this was also the time that most old tinkers think about when they 'remember the good times.' Also, HP pools are higher from the days where we had leg kits, and damage is about the same. Some classes don't do nearly as much damage as they used to, and some do more. Like I said, you don't even play the bracket, so your frame of reference is nonexistent or irrelevant. I'll let you decide which.

Oh, and the purpose of mentioning 19s, 24, and 70, wasn't to point out how they have always gotten games 24/7. It was to bring up the fact that twinking brackets which have 24/7 activity tend to also have a much lower general skill level and a lot of scrubs. Comparing old 29s to the current is pointless cuz I can guarantee the trend will follow.

 

[soskanky]

Old 29s had more skill than new 29s. And you neglected to answer a few of his questions.

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[willix]

Old 29s had more skill than new 29s.

Different environment, different tools, different everything. Baseless claim is baseless.

And you neglected to answer a few of his questions.

Which questions would those be?

 

[soskanky]

Different environment, different tools, different everything. Baseless claim is baseless.



Which questions would those be?

You left out the most important variable, the players. The very people who judge said skill. I have experienced all environments, all tools and everything else. I am a better judge of skill in comparison to most other people. Your argument would mean that nobody has the ability to judge said skill and that in itself is baseless.

As far as the second half of your quote, reading is not difficult.

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[willix]

You left out the most important variable, the players. The very people who judge said skill. I have experienced all environments, all tools and everything else. I am a better judge of skill in comparison to most other people. Your argument would mean that nobody has the ability to judge said skill and that in itself is baseless.

As far as the second half of your quote, reading is not difficult.

Skill 100% depends on the tools you have available. Part of those tools are your class abilities themselves, which have changed significantly since BC, which most people contend is the 'hayday of twinking.' You also forget that a lot of the people who currently play now........ played back then, myself included. Of all the classes I have now, the one that's the weakest (hardest to do well with, most skill required) is my warlock. Back then, it was the best class (easiest to do well with).

So while I agree that you're might be a good judge of skill, the fact remains that it's an entirely different environment. You're essentially comparing season 1 glads to season 11 glads, where both seasons took a remarkably different kind of skill with an entirely different set of tools and entirely different class viability. No one in their right mind would content that a S1 glad would automatically become a s11 gladiator just because he got glad in s1. Likewise, no one in their right mind would content that a great tinker from BC would automatically be a great tinker in Cata (soon to be MoP).

Before you can make the statement that tinkers back then were better than tinkers now, you'd have to get those old tinkers into this environment, which some of them (like Falaris here) flatly refuse to do. This makes the whole thing pointless. Of course you can cling to 'nostalgic greatness' as if no one can touch your former glory, but what's the point if you aren't going to prove yourself in a new environment?

Just a relic of the past, and rightfully so.


As for his other questions, they are pointless. We get activity based on willing participation WITHOUT the presence of XP on players to force frequent queue pops. 19s, 24s, and 70s currently get 24/7 participation and those brackets really aren't that great. So using things like 'we got constant activity' (which incidentally relied on non twinks) is an extremely bad metric to measure anything by. You can get instant pops as a horde 24 nearly any time of the day, do you honestly think that makes the bracket or the players in it any good?

Bringing up premades is pointless too. There are plenty of players who would be willing to engage in premades in this bracket, but it's next to impossible to get two teams together to agree on anything, it''s already been tried. And yes, I did play during the XP off days before Cata. It's wasn't any better than things are now. Those games were remarkably similar to the average 19s or 24s games that happen right now, so I can make a good guess as to where a lot of those players ended up.

 

[Falaris]

Not going to bother quoting the novel that is above me, but the statement " Likewise, no one in their right mind would content that a great tinker from BC would automatically be a great tinker in Cata (soon to be MoP).

is completely ignorant. Yes, most good players would feel that someone who was good in BC would also be good in Cata. Skill is skill. Would they IMMEDIATELY BE AS GOOD AS THEY WOULD BE BEFORE? Of course not. Skills atrophy over time. However, give a 'pro' 2-3 months or less to get reacclimated to a bracket and they would be just as good as they would be before they quit.

Ninety percent of the good twinks from various brackets have competent mains. Saying that they wouldnt be good on their twink when they go from 10 abilities to 15 abilities is just dumb.

Edit: if you feel that the premades pre cata are as bad as premade games today, youre just absolutely retarded. Since I have no idea who you are, and Ive been involved in the majority of the top tier premades of that era, I can safely say you just dont know what you are talking about, since you didnt participate in the very premades youre bashing now.

 

[soskanky]

Ill respond more to that garbage when I'm out of work. But you keep mentioning XP on players when he has not mentioned that. Constant 24 hour pops were happening after twinks were put into their own battlegroup. But how many times you claim to be an old school twink, YOU WERENT AROUND AND PLAYING THEN. Nobody even knew who you were before Cata. Of course you are going to argue that. Also its not the abilities, its how you utilize said abilities and manage your CDs. This isn't rocket science. Btw S11 glad is a terrible comparison with carries/pilots running rampant not to mention win trading. Will comment more later. Rampant multi tasking going on right


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[willix]

Not going to bother quoting the novel that is above me, but the statement " Likewise, no one in their right mind would content that a great tinker from BC would automatically be a great tinker in Cata (soon to be MoP).

is completely ignorant. Yes, most good players would feel that someone who was good in BC would also be good in Cata. Skill is skill. Would they IMMEDIATELY BE AS GOOD AS THEY WOULD BE BEFORE? Of course not. Skills atrophy over time. However, give a 'pro' 2-3 months or less to get reacclimated to a bracket and they would be just as good as they would be before they quit.

Ninety percent of the good twinks from various brackets have competent mains. Saying that they wouldnt be good on their twink when they go from 10 abilities to 15 abilities is just dumb.

Edit: if you feel that the premades pre cata are as bad as premade games today, youre just absolutely retarded. Since I have no idea who you are, and Ive been involved in the majority of the top tier premades of that era, I can safely say you just dont know what you are talking about, since you didnt participate in the very premades youre bashing now.

So why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Resub and come play some games, prove me wrong.

I can guarantee you the first words out of your mouth will be 'oh man this is way different.'

/facepalm at your ineptitude.

 

[Falaris]

So why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Resub and come play some games, prove me wrong.

I can guarantee you the first words out of your mouth will be 'oh man this is way different.'

/facepalm at your ineptitude.

1. I started a new job this week, I have more important things to do than play a dead bracket for a game that is like 10 years old

2. I have absolute zero to prove to a twink who claims to have been playing since BC yet I had never even heard of in any bracket.

3. For like the 4th time I HAVE PLAYED IN CATA. Damage to HP ratios are off the charts. Talent trees are dumbed down. Players like you, who were complete nobodies when most of the good twinks were still playing, are somehow considered 'good' now.

4. The twink who probably hasnt been good enough to be on the B team for premades Ive been in probably shouldnt be throwing around the word 'ineptiude' unless youre referencing yourself.


Good day.

 

[Ohai]

I think that anyone who played when everyone came to Reckoning, and played consistently thereafter, would disagree about the quality of players.

Players who were playing then were some of the best to play: Aid, TKO, Huargo, PB, Kuntekinte aka Skribblez aka Minow, Wbern, Falaris, Zakk aka Ent, Tungtwista, Soopermanjr, Somehow Nurffed/Kunz/Froz all seem like one player, Phatshots, Pizza, Lrig, Lloyd, Summa, Zelda, Zeiren, Magnetronic, Nitro, Sbdaddy, Faze, Tao, Phazz, Vallei, Symbolik (i think), Jeesus, Skanky, Bubbleboy, Puberty, Rottentomato, Mongro, Liithe, SPB, Useful, Tapout/Livingforce, Hook, Coco

That's just a list of players off the top of my head. Most of these players were very very exceptionally good. There are many good players left, but not even remotely close to the same tier of player. I'd say actually MB is filled with some pretty top flight former 39s, so there is that.

I know the response is a "Well challenge those guys to come back and PROVE IT" but they really don't have to, and I expect most of them don't want to.

 

[Falaris]

I think that anyone who played when everyone came to Reckoning, and played consistently thereafter, would disagree about the quality of players.

Players who were playing then were some of the best to play: Aid, TKO, Huargo, Kuntekinte aka Skribblez aka Minow, Wbern, Falaris, Zakk aka Ent, Tungtwista, Soopermanjr, Somehow Nurffed/Kunz/Froz all seem like one player, Phatshots, Pizza, Lrig, Lloyd, Summa, Zelda, Zeiren, Magnetronic, Nitro, Sbdaddy, Faze, Tao, Phazz, Vallei, Symbolik (i think), Jeesus, Skanky, Bubbleboy, Puberty, Rottentomato, Mongro, Liithe, SPB, Useful, Tapout/Livingforce, Hook, Coco

That's just a list of players off the top of my head. Most of these players were very very exceptionally good. There are many good players left, but not even remotely close to the same tier of player. I'd say actually MB is filled with some pretty top flight former 39s, so there is that.

I know the response is a "Well challenge those guys to come back and PROVE IT" but they really don't have to, and I expect most of them don't want to.

And even before that, Cyclone was really the place to be imo. Cyclone had 95% of the good players that went to Reckoning, but had players like Obliviate (who i hated but acknowledge was super pro) and Lloydganks, who understandably got bored with 29s. I still think the 29 Cyclone premades with MYT, Phoenix, and Detox were the best set of premades overall.

 

[soskanky]

Didn't Tao wipe up Obliviate

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[Falaris]

Didn't Tao wipe up Obliviate

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Tao beat him in a set of duels, but Humans with goggles should pretty much never lose 1v1 duels vs nonhumans. This was especially true when they dueled, back when perception was an activated ability and gave like a million stealth detection.

 

[willix]

1. I started a new job this week, I have more important things to do than play a dead bracket for a game that is like 10 years old

2. I have absolute zero to prove to a twink who claims to have been playing since BC yet I had never even heard of in any bracket.

3. For like the 4th time I HAVE PLAYED IN CATA. Damage to HP ratios are off the charts. Talent trees are dumbed down. Players like you, who were complete nobodies when most of the good twinks were still playing, are somehow considered 'good' now.

4. The twink who probably hasnt been good enough to be on the B team for premades Ive been in probably shouldnt be throwing around the word 'ineptiude' unless youre referencing yourself.


Good day.

'I have better things to do with my time than play a game a couple times a week for a game or two, like posting on a twinking site about how I used to be the king dick of 29s but I can't play now.'

Rofl. Yes, you are very inept. You shouldn't bother posting here if you're going to cling to excuses about how you're too good to play. Nothing you've said here convinces me that you're some badass ex 29 who deserves some street cred. Keep trolling dude, it's really painting a picture.

Players who were playing then were some of the best to play: Aid, TKO, Huargo, Kuntekinte aka Skribblez aka Minow, Wbern, Falaris, Zakk aka Ent, Tungtwista, Soopermanjr, Somehow Nurffed/Kunz/Froz all seem like one player, Phatshots, Pizza, Lrig, Lloyd, Summa, Zelda, Zeiren, Magnetronic, Nitro, Sbdaddy, Faze, Tao, Phazz, Vallei, Symbolik (i think), Jeesus, Skanky, Bubbleboy, Puberty, Rottentomato, Mongro, Liithe, SPB, Useful, Tapout/Livingforce, Hook, Coco

I've underlined all the players that are still playing 29s. Some of those folks on your list are pretty trashy, but hey, it's your list.

I know the response is a "Well challenge those guys to come back and PROVE IT" but they really don't have to, and I expect most of them don't want to.

No, the response is this: If you have zero interest in playing 29s, then you wouldn't be on a twinking website in a 29s thread talking about how bad the bracket is. So instead of talking out of your ass, resub, come play, and then maybe you'll earn the right to criticize.

 

[Falaris]

I'm not sure where in this thread Ive actually touted my own abilities on a rogue, so your statement of 'some badass ex 29 that deserves some street cred'. I mean Im sure im better than YOU, but as far as the top rogues, there are easily 4-5 29s that I considered more individually skilled than I. Obliviate, SPB, and Zak were easily the top 3 rogues that consistently played, and there were a couple lesser known twinks that I played with (I think I have a pretty good gauge of where rogues are in relation to skill, since I played in almost every competitive 29 twinking battlegroup) that were on par or close to those 3.

That being said, I've been on the A team for a good number of the top twink guilds in the history of 29s. The reason being is that most people that have played with/against me will attest Im one of the _smarter_ rogues/players in the 29 bracket. I've led a good number of premades comprising of some of the best players in the game, and have been an integral strategy component of several others. Being good as a twink/wow player in general goes well beyond your ability to efficiently hit your abilities.

 

[willix]

/yawn keep blabbing.