@All twinks. New PTR changes.

Jadyn

Jadyn

39 Evangelist
As Drayner posted on the front page, some changes are finally coming in. There are a lot of people who are already talking about the "mechanical" changes, so I won't talk about that here.



My point is instead this: Blizzard cares.



Sure, some people might feel pretty pissed about all this. And they may not see much logic to some of the changes. Some of these changes might end up messing around with some of the balance. At 39 we're worried that dps might end up being a bit too strong, turning games into gibfests. Sure, that could be a problem, but it's still an improvement in that the fields are leveler now.



And regardless, Blizzard wouldn't have made all these changes if they didn't care at all about lower brackets. Which means maybe it's time to try communicating with them.
 
What's going to happen in mid brackets like 39 and 49 where the majority of twinks are going to have 200-400 less HP (Spellthread and Nethercleft) yet the damage enchants are the same?



They've just made the brackets worse, not better, by forcing people to give up the only item enhancement that helped compensate for TBC enchants on every single item that was enchantable.
 
all i can say is... WTF. if blizz goes through with most of these changes, i know me and a lot of other people will be pretty pissed. with current endgame disappointing at best, Twinking is the only thing keeping many people playing. if Boa shoulders/leg armor/prof buffs are nerfed, it could change Twinking is a huge way, and for the worse.
 
Eveill said:
What's going to happen in mid brackets like 39 and 49 where the majority of twinks are going to have 200-400 less HP (Spellthread and Nethercleft) yet the damage enchants are the same?



They've just made the brackets worse, not better, by forcing people to give up the only item enhancement that helped compensate for TBC enchants on every single item that was enchantable.
Click to expand...



spellthread gives 35 sp. this will be removed.





also, i'm not sure how this ruins twinking. for me, twinking is about fair play, and this will even the field even more.
 
The only legitimate complaints I've heard in the last 4 hours of listening to people in multiple guilds, vents, and forums, are twofold: it makes all their thousands of gold spent wasted, and it potentially changes balance between dmg and hp for the worse in some brackets.



Anything else generally comes under the heading of people not being able to dominate pugs, or disliking that they are going to be flat out weaker.



I'm posting this link in all of the forums I can. It's a link to a post I made basically @Blizzard, in hopes that they'll open communication with the twink community.





As I said in those other forums, yeah, I'm sure you guys think that's crazy talk. But look at what's happening right now. Basically, people are reacting to this change the same way any other community in the game does to a nerf to their favorite class or aspect of the game.



So how about rather than being reactionary like most of the class forums, lets show off our better community, and give them some real, calm, feedback. And then lets see if they respond. Because right now, I see Blizzard actually trying. And we all know they tend to mess up a couple times before they get things right. But they do get things right (or at least mostly right) in the end.



Here's the post in the ptr forum. What do you think?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=15443292115&postId=156188166851&sid=1#46
 
I really think blizzard doesn't care about twinks one bit.. They already stated that Twinking isn't a intended feature of the game, so they wont put any time or effort into the twinking scene to optimize it. If they change something in the end-game part of the game that influence the twinks, they don't care. But the thing is, if they dont support or see twinking as an actual part of the game, why do they allow low level BG's? It's just 100% useless to use a BG when you are planning to level all the way to 80.



What i think about the nerfs? Total shit(except the prof nerfs) The extra HP is just great for a more competitive feeling in the twink scene. In the old days, you nuked other twinks down in max 30 seconds (even healers) But now with the HP buffs we got alot more survivability that makes twinking alot more tactic based. So i really hope they wont nerf the healing+stam enchants. It requires alot more co-op and tactic to do arena/bg now. SHOUT OUT TO BLIZZ: KEEP YOUR DIRTY PAWS OF TWINKS!! THEY ARE FINE!!



Quote from Blizzard: "In a nutshell, it seems that much of your dissatisfaction comes from concerns about the Twinking play style, and our support for it. Unfortunately, at the moment, Twinking is not a play-style that we support at all, nor is it official. We recognize it as a player choice, and while, for the moment at least, we’ve opted not to put active obstacles in place to prevent it, we do not support it actively either.

If you opt to return to World of Warcraft, and want to see more active support for Twinking, then you may want to make a post on our Suggestions forum to that effect."
 
Druiddroid said:
also, i'm not sure how this ruins twinking. for me, twinking is about fair play, and this will even the field even more.
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Even the field as in if everyone's rolling hunters we'll all be equal?
 
Not sure why people say this will kill casters, sure 35 spell dmg is a nice drop in th bucket...but my Spriest will still roll around with 1850ish hp, 2250ish mana, 40mp5 in combat, and 100-140 spell power/shadow dmg depending on gear.



People seem to be forgetting that most of the stamina lose isnt affect hugaly by casters BUT by melee/hunters, imo its gonna be easier killing a hunter with only 2k over 3k neh?
 
Lets all just reroll hunters and we'll have the problem solved. Almost the same damage output only that the opponents will have less health.

They dont even need the gear to be overpowered.
 
Naturaltalnt said:
Not sure why people say this will kill casters, sure 35 spell dmg is a nice drop in th bucket...but my Spriest will still roll around with 1850ish hp, 2250ish mana, 40mp5 in combat, and 100-140 spell power/shadow dmg depending on gear.



People seem to be forgetting that most of the stamina lose isnt affect hugaly by casters BUT by melee/hunters, imo its gonna be easier killing a hunter with only 2k over 3k neh?
Click to expand...



If they nerf ALL enchants (looks like they will do so although it's not live yet)...

my hunter will lose maybe 600-700 HP and about 5 dps.

my mage will lose ALL his +spell enchants plus about 400 HP. Right now i hardly manage to kill a hunter, do you think i will be able to do so after the nerf? I very much doubt it. Priests might still do kinda ok though. But this whole thing will give us way shorter fights and even less class diversity.
 
Helmût said:
Even the field as in if everyone's rolling hunters we'll all be equal?
Click to expand...



there are plenty of ways to get away from hunters. you need to LoS or CC them. sometimes using an instant damage spell (like moonfire) on aspect of the cheetah works.



granted, i never kill hunters, but as a person with FC toons i still support what blizzard is doing on the PTR.
 
These nerfs seem to be hurting the casters more than the melee in all honesty. The loss of too much stam is going to hurt considerably. Yes melee is losing some too, but for the most part they will be dishing out more dps and burning clothies down even faster. It was that additional 400-600 hp that made them more competitive. Im for the majority of the nerfs but some of them dont seem to make much sense, its almost like they are trying to take away all advantages of being twinked.
 
I feel like, from playing the most bursty bracket already... 49s will just become pure glibfests. 1v1s between double DPS already last like.... 10 seconds.



Enhancement shamans will make a huge return in the 49s. They were on top of the chain pre-BC because everyone had lower health, making enhancement the 1 stop windfury sneeze and die chain.



19s - These changes will fix a lot of things in the bracket. However. as you continue up the chain of brackets, the situation looks worse and worse. Too much DPS and not enough health.
 
I'm not really sure what I make of all this yet. For me it's a little too soon to freak out, but I must admit I'm feeling rather slighted on the gold/time I invested into my 19 character. I'm pretty sure I'll do fine after the nerfs, but this is going to mean going through some of my gear and reenchanting items with enchants that do work on my gear. I suspect I'll probably have to get a libram for pants, and a new chest piece enchant. The thing that really bothers me is the fact that I get no mining bonus. I feel like I'm being punished for hitting 375+ mining. I'm honestly thinking I might just level the toon up to a bracket where I get my mining buff because that was a huge time and gold sink, and don't want to unlearn it and do it all over again so I can have a lower level of mining.



I guess I just don't really see the point in all the nerfing. Twinks will just adjust with slightly less powerful stats, but I don't think that's going to change much of anything.
 
Wait wait, what? BoAs and Profs aside - those were going eventually anyway - all casters are losing is some sp and 200hp max. 100hp once everyone gets const librams. If the AGM change goes through, anyone with AGM will end up with more hp than before. The classes that are losing a lot of hp are the ones with nethercleft, and that's all the hunters, rogues, and palys.



I don't know what you guys are talking about with casters losing all their spell power. Leg enchants atm are the only thing that seem to be on the table for being removed. Everything else is still there for almost everyone. So are we talking about what seems to be happening, or are we speculating on what might happen? Because if casters really were to lose all their sp enchants, then it makes sense that physical dps enchants would all go too. =P
 
you make a good point, jadyn.



with AGM and golden spellthread, a caster will GAIN 20 health if they get 100 hp to their leggings.
 
There will be issues though, since overall, people will lose hp more than dps. And the boas I have to admit did kinda make burst a bit weaker the last month or so, which was an improvement that is going to get reverted. =/



All I'm saying is lets wait and see, there's still a ton of time before the patch comes out.



Edit: and remember that at least they're not grandfathering anything this time. Because that would destroy twinking in the end.
 
i think that taking these changes on the PTR and translating that into "Blizzard cares" is a long shot at best.



this is not the first time that blizzard made changes that either directly or indirectly affected twinks. they've made it clear that they are not interested in sculpting the lower level pvp brackets into a directly supported part of the game.



i wouldn't take what they likely perceive as "bug fixes" as them suddenly being interested in making twinking any better or worse.



you can argue that the leg enchants were in the game so long that they are not a bug. but if that's so, why must we use them on BoE items and have someone 60+ apply them? clearly, they were intended for 60+ all along, regardless of required gear level. in the PTR it just looks like they're fixing this system to a "required level of use" and moving away from grandfathering by making the existing conditions be unmet by level and therefore not acknowledged in your character statistics.



keep in mind that all of these things we use on twinks, other people can use to exploit the leveling system. and they do. so, while it seems they are directly playing in our backyard, they really may not be. and, like always, we deal with the aftermath of class changes, bug fixes, and conditions which allow us to exceed our gear level.



but hey. at least by fixing the system, we can probably expect to not have any more of these conditions appear. seems with WotLK these conditions have been popping up all over the place.
 
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