84's are probably just better (PvP)

[Jonqui]

I doubt many 80's will level to 84 the main 84's will be new players to the bracket.. 80's know that 84's have little to no respect and many 80's that are still playing in the bracket want to maintain some of the respect they have..
Plus not everyone is willing to give up so easily..
All they need to do for brackets is for exp off make it so the lvl you stop at is the ONLY lvl you play.. but I know that'd be a huge thing and a lot will have to be done for every bracket and it'd never happen

 

[Sixpence]

If you can get a conflag off on a geared 80 with off heals or a res stack healer, it prob won't be able to do the job because their health won't be below 30%

I've literally globalled every single healer hero I've come across, not the shitty 20k HP players, proper twinks who consider themselves good, disc priests are probably the easiest, the sheer damage from an 84 is disgusting.

I'd be happy to queue into you in 2's if you would like a demonstration of what 84's are capable of, it doesn't matter if a WoG is 50% of your HP, you will get 1 shot by the Chaos Bolt. Amaya is right, that's about where Chaos Bolt damage sits.

As it stands I think 85 is probably going to become a superior bracket for PvP purposes.

The 85 bracket is fantastic right now, it's a shame that Cataclysmic gear is being moved around, but I hope it comes back really cheap. The bracket has so much potential and it's only being held back by gear missing and arena queues being bugged for XP locked players.

Ultimately however, the battle chest goes up to level 80 only, if there is a shift and everyone goes to 84, it will just widen the gap between a twink and a battle chest player. Shrug. They are just queue fodder anyway.

 

[Jonqui]

I've literally globalled every single healer hero I've come across, not the shitty 20k HP players, proper twinks who consider themselves good, disc priests are probably the easiest, the sheer damage from an 84 is disgusting.

I'd be happy to queue into you in 2's if you would like a demonstration of what 84's are capable of, it doesn't matter if a WoG is 50% of your HP, you will get 1 shot by the Chaos Bolt. Amaya is right, that's about where Chaos Bolt damage sits.

Well just because a healer may have something to around 40k+ hp some also don't use much resilience.. Idk why but many stack int or they just have a load of cata gear so they still take a great amount of damage..

And I was unaware that 84's could que for 2's unless they had a team prior to lvling past 80, and in 2's I doubt you'd be able to get a chaos bolt off, due to CC, LoS etc. , the cast time is too ridiculous. Only reason people get it off in bg's is because they're not focused and can cast freely.

 

[masteradr]

84 are op at this lvl especialy spriests if decently geared and played correctly 100+killing blows ftw

 

[Amaya]

80 warrior vs 84 warrior for FC purposes. Big difference in EHV, but the 80 warrior gains more from heals and shields. 81% resil + 12k HPS is pretty lulzy, I don't know if anyone could down that 1v1 outside of a 1 shot. That turns 100,000 DPS into 19k. I'd venture that most PvP geared DPS could only sustain around 50k on a dummies, let alone 100k. Doing enough to bypass Second Wind healing would take a lot. Should be unkillable 1v1 against other melee.

Base Health	Resil	Effective Health	Second Wind	Effective HPS	Effective Colossus Value
75,537	0.8149	408,088	2,266	12,243	40,519
232,997	0.5852	561,709	6,990	16,851	18,081

 

[CatdogFx]

80 warrior vs 84 warrior for FC purposes. Big difference in EHV, but the 80 warrior gains more from heals and shields. 81% resil + 12k HPS is pretty lulzy, I don't know if anyone could down that 1v1 outside of a 1 shot. That turns 100,000 DPS into 19k. I'd venture that most PvP geared DPS could only sustain around 50k on a dummies, let alone 100k. Doing enough to bypass Second Wind healing would take a lot. Should be unkillable 1v1 against other melee.

Base Health	Resil	Effective Health	Second Wind	Effective HPS	Effective Colossus Value
75,537	0.8149	408,088	2,266	12,243	40,519
232,997	0.5852	561,709	6,990	16,851	18,081

I bow down to your effort in calculating all of this but with all this talk about 84s being so much better, are you suggesting ppl roll 84 and forget 80?

 

[Sixpence]

I bow down to your effort in calculating all of this but with all this talk about 84s being so much better, are you suggesting ppl roll 84 and forget 80?

Yes, 80's for nostalgia but 84 for being competitive later when the switch occurs.

81% resil + 12k HPS is pretty lulzy, I don't know if anyone could down that 1v1 outside of a 1 shot. That turns 100,000 DPS into 19k. I'd venture that most PvP geared DPS could only sustain around 50k on a dummies, let alone 100k. Doing enough to bypass Second Wind healing would take a lot. Should be unkillable 1v1 against other melee.

You're messing up some effective stats and actual stats. 50k dps is pretty reasonable for sustained damage(assuming the player fighting the warrior has no burst, no last push to finish the warrior, just a pure stream of damage) from any class/spec combination. 81% resi and 12k effective HPS does sound fun. Talking in actual stats, that makes the opposing player do 9.5k dps to you, you're only healing for 2.26k per second wind tick. Assuming the warrior was a target dummy, anything can kill you.

A prot warrior isn't a target dummy, obviously, they're probably one of the most annoying(not hard, just time consuming) to get past short cooldown abilities and whittle to 30%, then finish off with one last bump. But it will happen, a warrior can't lock you down infinitely, it's not s7/8 anymore. But it's not reasonable to imply "the ultimate 1v1 class", they are definitely one of the strongest non-hybrids at surviving solo though, which I agree.

show me a good 84 twink and ill accept the fact that they are better.

Ðärklördx @ Frostmourne - Community - World of Warcraft

He's missing a second profession and some pieces could probably be changed, but he's undefeated in 2's besides both members leaving XP locked for one queue.

 

[Amaya]

I really shouldn't post when half asleep.

The gist of the 80 prot v 84 prot is that in some ways the 80 is better. The 80 gains more of an effect from heals and shields.
In that regard 80 healers might be better and actually 80 hybrids might be better as well seeing that the value of self heals and shields skyrockets with resil.

Offensively though, only a pure PvE geared 80 will be superior to an 84 (at least for plate classes). A near max resil TG Fury warrior has around 230k effective HP vs an 84's 290k and has more crit, but has less mastery, base damage, and PvP Power. As soon as an 80 starts trading resil for damage, their EHV plummets rendering them as the most extreme cases of glass cannons seen in WoW. We're talking having less than half an 84's EHV for a little more of their damage.

80s though are hands down superior for PvE purposes. 80 Mages remain the top dps in the game (possibly even without Combustion faggotry, Arcane can burst for over 150k without being BiS) and 80 tanks are essentially immune to melee damage.

Funny thing is that with baseline resil added, 80s would probably dominate 84s easily if MoP items were removed from the bracket. 84 Tauren Warrior restricted to Cata gear and enchants has just 125,000 HP and 208k effective health. By comparison 40k HP and 75% resil is achievable at 80 (or higher) which is 160,000 effective health in addition to having massively higher superior stats.

There are three things that could happen to reestablish 80's dominance in the bracket.

1) Removal of MoP gear for those under 85 (not likely)
2) Seperate brackets for 60,70,80 (not likely)
3) Blizzard implements their level buff crap into PvP (likely) (scales lower levels up to higher levels...if this leaves secondary stats alone 80s could have 84 spellpower/AP values and health while maintaining insane amounts of resil)

 

[Jonqui]

As much as I enjoy all these posts and the activity of the bracket, but I hate the fact that we're all promoting the idea of lvling to 84. Many people dislike 84's, and for every 84 that joins it almost seems that 2 80's quit, or go back to endgame content.

Like I said I love all the ideas and such but it kills me that we're trying to encourage lvling to 84, or at least we're making it sound like that.

 

[Amaya]

I am vehemently against 84s.

Here is my battletag. #amaya1706. Add me. If you ever catch me on an 84 in an xp off BG you can call me on it and call me out as being a lying bitch ass motherfucker.

This started as an evaluation of 80s v 84 and as I dug into what 84s can do I discovered that the popular claim of 80>84 was no longer true. If anything this is just a warning. Sadly I will not be doing any new 80s other than possibly a paladin because of these discoveries. If I even bother to resub and do that much. I don't see much of a reason to spend time and effort on gearing up a character when some faggot can just level to 84 drop 50k on BoEs and outperform me.

I WANT 80s to be better. With 70s looking like complete shit do to resil stacking and 85 still missing Cataclysmic gear there is no other PvP in WoW that interests me and this is the ONLY video game that interests me at all anymore. So if 80 dies off then I'm done with WoW and gaming in general until the next TES comes out.

 

[Amaya]

Just go look at the 80's thread on the US forums. It has gems like:

48% resil makes them blow.... hope to have 65%+ in full bis

I agree 84s are easy to beat for geared/skilled twinks

but I hate getting into a BG to have an 84 just pick off everyone around me

like yeah I can kill them 1v1 with 100% confidence, but nobody else can on the team, so it doesn't even matter

Either people refuse to face reality or (as I believe) there are virtually no good 84s active. Maybe the community can actually successfully police itself and prevent such a shift.

 

[Exentricity]

I doubt many 80's will level to 84 the main 84's will be new players to the bracket.. 80's know that 84's have little to no respect and many 80's that are still playing in the bracket want to maintain some of the respect they have..

Been playing 80 since ruthless season in cataclysm, don't care about respect or how i'm seen on any of my characters, respect doesn't stop me getting 1 shotted from an 84 boomer so if i can't beat em, i join em.

Parts @ Frostwhisper - Community - World of Warcraft
Exentricity @ Frostwhisper - Community - World of Warcraft
Rooster @ Frostwhisper - Community - World of Warcraft

 

[Ellipse]

I personally don't see the fun in just rolling everything unless I'm farming HKs. I prefer the challenge. :3

 

[Amaya]

I leveled my warlock to 85 recently and was about 85-90% BiS at 84. You have enough mastery to heal for 33%+ with Ember Tap and Chaos Bolt routinely crits for 150k+ on 40% resil. It's horribly broken.

 

[Exentricity]

I leveled my warlock to 85 recently and was about 85-90% BiS at 84. You have enough mastery to heal for 33%+ with Ember Tap and Chaos Bolt routinely crits for 150k+ on 40% resil. It's horribly broken.

I understand that the damage is broken, but levelling to 84 to reach maximum potential is nothing to be ashamed of, 80 is far from balanced, fire mages doing 150k dps and resto shamans with almost 90% damage reduction.,

 

[Leadtank]

When my 90 warrior was 84 i was only 3/6 BiS new MoP gear. Didn't have the weapon. I did have the BoA resil pvp trink (wish I had the shorter CD one rather than the BoA.) I could take on 2 84 6/6s and win. also, 5+ 80s full BiS. I'd die to the 80's but they all died too. Warriors aren't that hard. I'm sure that in the really big fights, without a pocket healer (never had one anyway since they didn't agree with healing an 84), Second Wind really didn't carry me at all. Funny thing is, I lost health faster with it going off rather than when above 35%. Don't ask how that worked, idk

I did have quite a big pool of mastery (I know, probably not the best idea. But the chance of a 2nd attack every time I hit you for 55% damage sounded AMAZING to me).

 

[Jonqui]

I've switched my 80 warlock from Destro to aff, much better at 80 imo (doesn't matter if you die, they do too). Much like Amaya said I'm getting much more results with full PvE, ICC 4 set, than in Pvp gear. Biggest thing I think that pulls a lot of 80's down when playing against 84's, is hit cap.. Unless you're a shadow priest, but even they have problems. PvE wise I pull about 120k, and when doing bg's I down 84's extremely quick, but I have problems with 84 hunters (pet carries hard). I've done premades with many 80's, we were able to get a horde premade with a group of 84's... We demolished them, skill difference and coordination diff. When it's just me and I have a pocket heals Ømfgäñîmål @ Tichondrius - Community - World of Warcraft I don't die and I don't think I've ever seen him 1 shot yet by an 84 and normally he comes out of a game with 0 deaths, example of a well geared and well played 80. Here's an example where 80's come out on top again.

 

[apologyze]

LOL 84s are a joke i shit all over their fuckin face