EU+US 70 Tanking, stam vs damage reduction

[Chey]

What started this was the BFA patch notes where frenz regen works off total health and iron fur is based of agility. Made an agil/stam set to check out numbers.

Was never suggesting to go full stam.
As a cata PVPer I can see Versa is the exact same principal as resil was, the more efficient stat obviously.
What I was talking about was the overhealing in 10+ groups due to the bis gear most run. As Zoke says this is mainly because of multiple healers, my thought was to use the extra stam to make use of that o/h.
eg: Two healers heal the tank at same time or within second or two, first tops tank second is wasted.
Of course rather than working like this the o/h could also just remain the same but more inefficient.

Another thought was Sheer from illidan where it halves your health, both the BiS geared DK tanks died to this in the last BT I did. Perhaps a l2p issue or because of the wider raid damage taken (in 10+) heals are more spread.
Saber slash from mother was another fight where more stam on tanks could be beneficial, Also (edit: see below) Supremus Where threat is directed to highest HP... could be wrong memory is fuzzy sometimes.
Brutallus is also another fight where with stacks higher hp is beneficial.

Basically not suggesting stam is new bis, but for the raid groups most of us do and with the amount of over healing done I think there is a place for more than the suggested 32-33k optimal tank stamina threshold.


Edit: taken from wow head
"description of Supremus' Hateful Strike ability at the top of this page is inaccurate. It suggests that Hateful Strikes are performed on the player holding second highest threat, when really they are performed on the player with the most HP, regardless of threat."

 

[Shinela]

Another thought was Sheer from illidan where it halves your health, both the BiS geared DK tanks died to this in the last BT I did. Perhaps a l2p issue or because of the wider raid damage taken (in 10+) heals are more spread.
Saber slash from mother was another fight where more stam on tanks could be beneficial, Also first boss BT (name escapes me) Where threat is directed to highest HP... could be wrong memory is fuzzy sometimes.
Brutallus is also another fight where with stacks higher hp is beneficial.

Basically not suggesting stam is new bis, but for the raid groups most of us do and with the amount of over healing done I think there is a place for more than the suggested 32-33k optimal tank stamina threshold.

Shear - This is all the players their fault, not the gear. (Sorry :c )
You can basically avoid getting Shear ever by using the right ability right before it happens. DK's have to use Death Strike before it, Druids use Ironfur, Monks use Ironskin, Paladins use Shield of the Righteous and Warriors use Shield Block.
When you have these abilities up, you don't get anything from Shear.

Saber Lash is better blocked. If your tanks die to it, stack 2 or maybe even 3 tanks on top of each other. I can solo tank it in my current gear with well timed Cooldowns, but it's very unreliable so going 2 tanks is always safer.

The boss you're talking about is the second boss; Supremus. Yes, I guess that works there. But we just kind of go "If you're melee, just prepare to die." I guess an offtank with a lot of HP could take that role, sure, because it targets the player with the highest HP.

Brutallus.. Nah, too many hits in short term. You're just asking to oom your healers there if you go stam :s

I agree with the fact that stam isn't always completely terrible. I'm convinced myself that there's a more stamina-oriented protpaladin build out there with their amazing healing ability. DK's their minimum heal isn't really worth much. Guardians... I don't play them, actually. So.. I can't judge there. BM I don't enjoy enough to comment on unbiased :s
For warriors, stamina doesn't really help you with anything except Last Stand, which basically says "Heal me even more" xD

 

[Chey]

haha yeh edited just before I sore your post after.
Doesn't saber lash hit the 3 closest targets and they share the hit? 33.333%?
If it is dodged or parried by one do the other two than share the hit? 50%?


Edit: Um wowhead says the ability has been removed......
Dose she maybe no longer use saber lash?

Edit 2: Just actually read what shear dose... knew it had to be mitigated but never realized if you did then it dose not do anything. Have always used survival instincts and just assumed it countered the effect, don't I feel silly [emoji13]

 

[Dreams]

Doesn't saber lash hit the 3 closest targets and they share the hit? 33.333%?
If it is dodged or parried by one do the other two than share the hit? 50%?
Edit: Um wowhead says the ability has been removed......
Dose she maybe no longer use saber lash?

Not exactly the 3 closest, but kind of. It hits the tank (current aggro holder) and then 2 other targets close to the tank. Meaning if your melee dps are standing behind Shahraz and your tank is standing alone in front of her, only your tank will get hit.
She still uses the ability. Maybe it says it has been removed because you're looking at the old version. Before BT TW it was significantly more powerful.

 

[Chey]

Not exactly the 3 closest, but kind of. It hits the tank (current aggro holder) and then 2 other targets close to the tank. Meaning if your melee dps are standing behind Shahraz and your tank is standing alone in front of her, only your tank will get hit.
She still uses the ability. Maybe it says it has been removed because you're looking at the old version. Before BT TW it was significantly more powerful.

Hmm interesting, only had the chance to do a handful of raids since coming back from cata (was resto back then) and so used to shred positioning requirement have never noticed this.

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=22947/mother-shahraz#abilities

 

[Dreams]

Mother Shahraz

I guess they forgot to add the new version to the wowhead ability list.
It shows in the dungeon journal:

 

[Zoke]

Another thought was Sheer from illidan where it halves your health, both the BiS geared DK tanks died to this in the last BT I did. Perhaps a l2p issue or because of the wider raid damage taken (in 10+) heals are more spread.

let me stop you for a sec: spook died from sheer +crits. i did not. i died because no one killed my beholder on demonphase.

also, the fact that in normal raid groups the healers are over healing, is nothing to do with the tanks. the tanks should not gear differently to accommodate the healers. rather: the healers should coordinate better with eachother so the dont overlap.
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I agree with the fact that stam isn't always completely terrible. I'm convinced myself that there's a more stamina-oriented protpaladin build out there with their amazing healing ability. DK's their minimum heal isn't really worth much. Guardians... I don't play them, actually. So.. I can't judge there. BM I don't enjoy enough to comment on unbiased :s
For warriors, stamina doesn't really help you with anything except Last Stand, which basically says "Heal me even more" xD

prot pal can get away with stacking stam higher due to light of the protector.

dk's self heals go up as their str (and ilvl) does, so stam stacking isnt great there. but haste/str/vers stacking is

i know of 2 or 3 brewmasters who run 65k health successfully. i also know of a really good brewmaster who runs 35k heath and 40% crit too.

and as shinela tells me, with warriors you want x% of vers and then all in on haste as long as you have "enough" stamina for the encounter your gearing for. used to be sharaz, now its brutallus i think.

 

[Fx]

You'll always have enough stam on any tank spec if you use all the stam enchants. Don't need to waste gems on that.

 

[Chey]

let me stop you for a sec: spook died from sheer +crits. i did not. i died because no one killed my beholder.

Yeh sorry mate, I didn't think you died to sheer. Thought about that after, the point is mute anyway bcuz of my failed understanding of the spell.

also, the fact that in normal raid groups the healers are over healing, is nothing to do with the tanks. the tanks should not gear differently to accommodate the healers. rather: the healers should coordinate better with eachother so the dont overlap.

We both know that's not going to happen.

prot pal can get away with stacking stam higher due to light of the protector.

It also scales with Versa.

i know of 2 or 3 brewmasters who run 65k health successfully. i also know of a really good brewmaster who runs 35k heath and 40% crit too.

Clear stagger can not have enough up time to warrant 65k hp, they will still be mana sponges. As you know how stagger works it just makes them really easy to heal but still inefficient.

Was just a thought to utilize the overhealing, was not at all suggesting to stack stam. Just simply an observation.

 

[Zoke]

i know it scales with vers =) thats why my prot pal has 38% vers

edit: also for brewmasters, they have almost no magic mitigation at all, so more stam might work out decently, but still 65k doesnt leave any room for secondaries

 

[Blackberryy]

small amounts of over healing don't hurt a raid in the slightest, if none of the healers are going oom and noone dies there is 0 problems. The only problem i see in any of the raids we do is positioning, either a healer over extends into somewhere they shouldn't be and a dps or tank moves to far out of where they should be and in that second of overlapping to try and get everyone topped back up is the biggest culprit. There are healers in our raid group that need to work on healing drastically, but we also only have 2-3 healers for 15 + players at times which makes it hard to assign groups for healers effectively. In my experience, ~30k hp and 25% vers is ideal for tanks. It doesn't seem that haste or crit play a massive role in anything over those 2 stats. Healers i find stack to much of there main stat as well, where as i believe a good balance of crit and haste works ideally. Just my 2 cents

 

[Dreams]

In my experience, ~30k hp and 25% vers is ideal for tanks. It doesn't seem that haste or crit play a massive role in anything over those 2 stats.

Haste plays a big role in survivability for warrior and DK tanks, at least.

 

[Zoke]

20%vers*** more than that costs too much of either gems or enchants that could be used on your best secondary/ hitting the stam you need

 

[Dreams]

/thread

 

[Awze]

@Onlydreams

??????????????????????????

 

[Dreams]

yyyyyyyikes

 

[Aelobin]

First of all that would be impossible since the highest ilvl reachable at level 70 is 170. But I think, and I could be wrong, that the reduction hardcaps at 80%. Perhaps @Aelobin could verify that.

Late response but the damage reduction cap is 98% (or it was when I last played 80 twinks at least).

 

[Stale]

Heck if I had the chance to be in a group of overhealers I'd just go full strength and crit gear and hope i don't get one-shot somewhere.

 

[Alistania]

I'm currently working on a spreadsheet to where you can interchange gems and enchants and see what your totals are. I'm close to a releasable version. Feel free to PM me in game and I can add you to it if you want to take a look at it.

Also, if you're good with spreadsheets I would greatly appreciate input, I'm learning this as I go.

The sheet should be good for all twinks lvl 60-80.