5.4 Enchants - updated for level 1s

[Chubtohd]

LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmLBeAEVn0CgdHRWWWtFdWIyeC14YnFVc2pJaUFOR0E#gid=0

I took the Google Doc that everyone has been looking at and removed all the columns except the 1-60 one. Then I removed all the inferior enchants (i.e. taking out a +5 stamina one if a +9 stamina one exists).

I've been getting a lot of questions about what enchants are going to be BiS and that's tough to answer. I think because for the first time we really have build options now: do you want to stam stack? do you want to avoidance stack? do you want to go glass cannon? do you want balance?

However, in my experience there is a stat priority to level 1 enchants and because of this, some choices are made easier

1) Haste - Speeds up auto attacks, speeds up spell cast, increase resource regen for Monks, Rogues, and Hunters (technically Warriors too).

2) Hit - we lose the OP nature of Pyrium Weapon Chain since it scales down, so we need to find it in other places

3) Expertise - Just as important as hit...because even if our attacks do hit, in the past we've not had any expertise to push dodge/parry off the combat table. This is probably the single greatest thing that comes for us in 5.4

So, my stat priority for 5.4 looks like this for PVE:

Caster: Haste till cast time is at GCD (1.5 sec) > Hit > Int > Spell Power = Crit
Melee: Haste till auto attack is 1 sec > Expertise > Hit > Primary Stat > Crit

PVP is pretty straightforward in my opinion:

PVP Power = PVP Resilience > Hit = Expertise > Stamina > Haste > Primary Stat > Crit

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This only leaves Weapon Enchants. I think some are worthless where others are impressive. I think it'll take a bunch of testing once the patch hits and we'll need a lot of community input to figure it out.

What are your thoughts going into 5.4?

 

[Subtleisity]

idk, I kind of disagree with your PVP priorities. Ever since patch 5.3 resilience has became a lot less useful due to the fact that it doesn't scale like it did before. You're also totally under-rating the usefulness of Critical Strike and Haste. Personally, my priorities go like this for PVP

Hit/Expertise > Crit > Primary Stat > Haste > PVP Power/Resilience > Stamina

 

[yunuss]

Well, we'll need some time to rearrange stat priorities. Chubs just tried to explain his theory.

The thing with the google doc here is that those cells painted in red = "unuseable due to level requirement, but might work on heirlooms" confuses me a lot, I mean if they won't work, or people are not sure if they'll work, how could they write down their scaled down valuations?

 

[yunuss]

Quoting from my post on 19s forum;

As for weapon enchants, Elemental Force makes sense because:

1. It ignores armor, meaning it'll damage plate wearers finely.
2. It has 10 RPPM, which is too much higher proc rate than other weapon enchants
3. When you dual wield it, it goes up to 20 RPPM, making it proc like every 3 seconds.

Now facts:
RPPM is weapon speed and instant attack independent.

And a blue post said:

• This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen).

I think it means, original weapon speed isn't important, but with more haste, we get more procs.

Meaning, 2x Elemental Force and a haste approach will be really good. I mean, really kickass.

 

[yunuss]

And Chubs you might as well remove pure mastery enchants because they will absolutely have no effect on us.

 

[BoudThe1Twink]

Yunuss, I don't want to be rude, but it REALLY isn't necessary making a new thread every time you want to ask/tell someone about something that is already in a thread, and TRIPLEposting is something I've never seen before Remember there are search & edit buttons!

 

[Chubtohd]

idk, I kind of disagree with your PVP priorities. Ever since patch 5.3 resilience has became a lot less useful due to the fact that it doesn't scale like it did before. You're also totally under-rating the usefulness of Critical Strike and Haste. Personally, my priorities go like this for PVP

Hit/Expertise > Crit > Primary Stat > Haste > PVP Power/Resilience > Stamina

While I don't PVP a lot on my level 1, I assumed that the reason Power/Resilience weren't thought about (much like Expertise) is that we couldn't get enough to make it work for us. With the enchants available we can get 32 PVP Resilience (41 for Shaman/Warrior/Pally) and 34 PVP Power in addition to gear. My assumption that stacking it gets us past the scaling issue. But yunuss is right, it'll have to be tested.

I'm curious though, why you'd put haste below Primary Stat? It seems you put the same value on it that I did as far as priority, but haste has been shown at least on the glove enchant to be greater than primary stat (10 haste > 15 agi).

Again, these are just my thoughts...I'm sure I'm wrong somewhere

Meaning, 2x Elemental Force and a haste approach will be really good. I mean, really kickass

The only problem with on hit mechanic procs is that you have to hit On low levels 2x EF will be sick...not sure of their effectiveness on higher levels. I plan on testing out EF or Fiery on MH and Mongoose or Black Magic (That haste proc is insane)on my OH.

The thing with the google doc here is that those cells painted in red = "unuseable due to level requirement, but might work on heirlooms" confuses me a lot, I mean if they won't work, or people are not sure if they'll work, how could they write down their scaled down valuations?

It is my understanding that the scaling of enchants takes care of the level requirement. It doesn't work with profession only enchants (i.e. Fur Lining that LW get at a certain skill level, Inscription only shoulder enchants, etc..), but does work for everything else (like Armor Kits) ... but again, that can change.

And Chubs you might as well remove pure mastery enchants because they will absolutely have no effect on us.

yup, you are right. fixing it now

 

[Subtleisity]

I'm curious though, why you'd put haste below Primary Stat? It seems you put the same value on it that I did as far as priority, but haste has been shown at least on the glove enchant to be greater than primary stat (10 haste > 15 agi).

Without your Primary Stat, haste is kind of pointless. It's better if you could hit for 70 every one and a half seconds than if you're hitting for 40 damage each second

 

[Chubtohd]

Depends really. If you've got proc per minute enchants (and you should) on your weapons, your damage comes from them rather than your melee hits. Haste is going to increase them. To use your numbers (albeit hypothetical ones) in the same time period they come out really close:

If you hit for 70 every 1.5 sec, in 3 seconds you do 140 damage
If you hit for 40 every 1 sec, in 3 seconds you do 120 damage

Over the course of a minute, 2800 vs 2400 dmg.

Even though its close (even closer with additional weapon procs), your scenario still wins out.

However, 15 agi over 10 haste on gloves does not yield you an extra 30 dmg hit. In fact, I'd doubt you could get 30 raw damage by stacking a primary stat over every possible haste enchant. I may be wrong and don't want to do the math (it's too nice of a day outside), but it would surprise me. So the narrower that margin is, the more haste wins out.

If you hit for 50 every 1.5 sec, in 3 sec you do 100 dmg
If you hit for 40 every 1 sec, in 3 sec you do 120 dmg + extra procs

That's my reasoning anyway

 

[yunuss]

Yunuss, I don't want to be rude, but it REALLY isn't necessary making a new thread every time you want to ask/tell someone about something that is already in a thread, and TRIPLEposting is something I've never seen before Remember there is are search & edit buttons!

Hi Boud.

I try to find what I want first, if I can not, I make a topic, which is never bad for this almost dead subforum. It actually gives some sense of living. Beneficial in some way.
And,
Starting your sentence with "I don't want to be rude" always means you are making your way to be rude. So spare me your pretended kindness, nobody needs it.

For posting 3 times, read my posts, they are all about different issues, which came to my mind one after another. Should it bother you? No.
But if you want to flame, its an opportunity for you.

For me(been a level 1 twink for 4 years and following TI longer than that) there are numerous posts you've made I found ignorant. But I let it all pass because of your enthusiasm to level 1 twinking since we are a small community and we should keep it together. Still though, I wouldn't let your passive aggressive behaviour go unanswered. Keep your thoughts to yourself as long as it doesn't contribute to this community.

Take care.

 

[Chubtohd]

Quoting from my post on 19s forum;

As for weapon enchants, Elemental Force makes sense because:

1. It ignores armor, meaning it'll damage plate wearers finely.
2. It has 10 RPPM, which is too much higher proc rate than other weapon enchants
3. When you dual wield it, it goes up to 20 RPPM, making it proc like every 3 seconds.

Now facts:
RPPM is weapon speed and instant attack independent.

And a blue post said:

• This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen).

I think it means, original weapon speed isn't important, but with more haste, we get more procs.

Meaning, 2x Elemental Force and a haste approach will be really good. I mean, really kickass.

To bring us back to the topic (let's keep personal feelings to PM's )

I'm thinking that there are 2 possibilities for MH enchants for Rogues:

1) Fiery (PPM) - since it's affected by weapon speed and haste, then you should use the slow BoAs
2) Elemental Force (RPPM) - since it's not affected by weapon speed and only haste, then would using a faster BoA (even over Thrash Blade) be better?

For OH enchants, I'm thinking now that there are several possibilities:

1) Hit - never a bad thing
2) Fiery or EF (especially against low level pvp)
3) Hurricane - this I think will be better than Mongoose and Black Magic

a) Mongoose is 1.2 PPM, in the OH it really would suck.​

b) Black Magic is a chance on hit ... which again in the OH is meh​

c) Hurricane can proc off of a bandage tick, the Draenei racial, or dmg.​

d) That extra 68 haste for 10 sec should make a dagger with EF go crazy on procs

​

While I don't play my Rogue much anymore, I'm thinking that the 1.7 BoA dagger or even possibly the Arcane Forged Dirk (1.6) with EF in your main hand and then Thrash Blade with Hurricane in your OH could be sick

 

[yunuss]

So, there are pros and cons of both of those types of procs. We’re trying a new system for these enchants. This new system, nicknamed Real PPM, aims to give the random nature of procs, the scaling with haste, and the ability for us to balance them assuming a standard proc frequency. Here’s the short version of how you can expect them to function:

--Windsong is 2 Real PPM, and Elemental Force is 10 Real PPM.
--Come patch 5.1, Dancing Steel and Jade Spirit will be 2 Real PPM, River's Song will be 4 Real PPM, and Colossus will be 6 Real PPM
--Regardless of how you’re attacking or healing, slow or fast, with DoTs or direct heals, whatever, you can expect to get the same proc frequency, on average.
--Dual wielding and having both weapons enchanted with the same enchant will double the frequency of procs that you get.
--This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen).
--Simple as that. Whether you’re an Affliction Warlock dealing very frequent DoT ticks and Malefic Grasp ticks, or a Holy Paladin casting purely Holy Lights, or a Combat Rogue quickly attacking and using specials, or an Enhancement Shaman attacking with slow melee attacks and spells, or a Shadow Priest channeling Mind Sear on fifty Onyxian Whelps, you’ll get 2*Haste Windsong procs or 10*Haste Elemental Force procs per enchant per minute.
--We’re excited to see how this proc system works out. If it works well, we may start using it for more types of procs. Feedback about how it feels is most welcome.

Here are even more nitty gritty details, if you’re interested:

--It can proc from any damage/healing event. It keeps track of the last time it had a chance to proc for that enchant.
--It calculates the difference in time since the last chance to proc. It uses that time to determine the chance for that event to trigger a proc.
--For example, if you have 22% Haste, it was 1.4sec since the last chance to proc, and you’ve got Windsong, then the chance to proc is 2(ppm) * 1.22(haste) * 1.4(time since last chance) / 60 (sec per min) = 5.693%.
--The ‘time since the last chance to proc’ is capped at 10sec, so that your first attack of a fight isn’t a guaranteed proc.

1- Fiery on MH hits for 40 and is 6 ppm(its not rppm so it won't keep track of the time since last chance to proc), I didn't understand why you thought fiery weapon over EF, just a slow 1h weapon will probably not boost its ppm to 10, haste % will affect both fiery weapon and EF so I'd choose EF in any equation.

2- Weapon speed will not effect proc rate whatsoever. so pick your favourite weapon and enchant with EF

3- Hurricane has 1 PPM so it'll be somewhat boring to wait for its ticking, instead, second EF in OH doubles your chance to proc EF to 20 RPPM. But hit for OH makes sense, gonna do some math.

4- I will get 19 hit rating from my gloves+boots, that should be enough for dueling level 15s.
5- After that hit cap, I'll be having 8 expertise on bracer, then I will stack haste.
6- Even if we stack primary stats and crit/haste our normal damage(white or SS damage) will be relatively lower than frequent EF procs. So my main focus will be letting it proc as often as it can.

 

[Chubtohd]

1- Fiery on MH hits for 40 and is 6 ppm(its not rppm so it won't keep track of the time since last chance to proc), I didn't understand why you thought fiery weapon over EF, just a slow 1h weapon will probably not boost its ppm to 10, haste % will affect both fiery weapon and EF so I'd choose EF in any equation.

2- Weapon speed will not effect proc rate whatsoever. so pick your favourite weapon and enchant with EF

3- Hurricane has 1 PPM so it'll be somewhat boring to wait for its ticking, instead, second EF in OH doubles your chance to proc EF to 20 RPPM. But hit for OH makes sense, gonna do some math.

4- I will get 19 hit rating from my gloves+boots, that should be enough for dueling level 15s.
5- After that hit cap, I'll be having 8 expertise on bracer, then I will stack haste.
6- Even if we stack primary stats and crit/haste our normal damage(white or SS damage) will be relatively lower than frequent EF procs. So my main focus will be letting it proc as often as it can.

1- Fiery is just on the list as another dmg on proc enchant ... obviously EF is better, but I put fiery there for ppl who thought EF was to expensive. I was however looking at Dancing Steel mats instead of the 3 essence EF costs. So yeah, take it for what it's worth

2- Weapon speed will affect how many chances you have to hit in that minute though. Since we can't really hit cap on higher levels the more swings you get in a minute, the greater the chance of landing them = the greater the chance of getting a proc. So faster would be better

3- Hurricane has a dual proc mechanic. It can proc off of melee hits and any type of spell or instance that your health goes up. The melee hit has no ICD, and the 1.2 PPM then is affected by haste (so off it's own procs) and does not share the 45sec ICD off of spells. The spell mechanic is interesting because unlike every other enchant you don't have to wait for a hit to get it to proc. The draenei heal, bandage, potion, even the Troll battle regen can make it do it's thing. That was my thinking anyway ... 68 haste would make your EF go crazy

6- I agree - Procs > Raw Dmg ... I think ppl tend to forget that the way lvl 19s or lvl 90s work has little bearing on the way lvl 1s work. So hit and haste are always our best DPS stats to get our weapons to proc

 

[BoudThe1Twink]

Hi Boud.

I try to find what I want first, if I can not, I make a topic, which is never bad for this almost dead subforum. It actually gives some sense of living. Beneficial in some way.
And,
Starting your sentence with "I don't want to be rude" always means you are making your way to be rude. So spare me your pretended kindness, nobody needs it.

For posting 3 times, read my posts, they are all about different issues, which came to my mind one after another. Should it bother you? No.
But if you want to flame, its an opportunity for you.

For me(been a level 1 twink for 4 years and following TI longer than that) there are numerous posts you've made I found ignorant. But I let it all pass because of your enthusiasm to level 1 twinking since we are a small community and we should keep it together. Still though, I wouldn't let your passive aggressive behaviour go unanswered. Keep your thoughts to yourself as long as it doesn't contribute to this community.

Take care.

Hi Yunuss.

"Starting your sentence with "I don't want to be rude" always means you are making your way to be rude. So spare me your pretended kindness, nobody needs it." What's all this about? I wasn't trying to be rude in any way, but looking over my post it looked quite rude. Since I know there are loads of butthurt people out there,(if you call that flaming, you go in my list of butthurt people) I threw that in there.
I was trying to help out, it looks a lot cleaner & it's an easier read & easier to go over everything you said if you keep it in one post.

I really don't get why you're bragging about your level one experience, tell me what to improve on, don't keep it to yourself. That way we all grow, see?

If you want to reply, please do it in PM.

 

[yunuss]

Alright no point in keeping this conversation going boud, now I know there's an edit button thanks to you do you also have something to say about enchants?

I stated EF is gonna be OP, that's only a theory for now, what do you think?
Which way will you start enchanting your twink? Please share with us

 

[Penny]

So what about the pieces other than weapons. What are you all going with for those?

 

[Chubtohd]

from my understanding of other twinks ... they'll be trying to stack a specific stat

Haste, Dodge, Crit seem to be favorites atm

 

[Caldalt]

New favorite set.
Greater Inscription of Warding - 11 dodge\stamina
Enchant Cloak - Stealth - 8 agility\dodge
Enchant Chest - Greater Dodge - 8 dodge
Enchant Bracer - Major Stamina - 15 stamina
Glove Reinforcements - 18 Stamina
Scorched Leg Armor - 41 AP and 17 Critical Strike
Enchant Boots - Surefooted - 8 Critical Stike and Hit
Enchant Ring - Agility (if I level warlock and do enchanting or on monk idk)
Enchant Weapon - Mongoose - 90 agility and 22 haste proc

That's going to be my enchanted gear for my favorite set most likely, seems pretty balanced and may change I didn't do too much of the math for it but it seems like it will be balanced for health\dodge\crit etc, for crit and dodge capped and a bit of health ;p

 

[BoudThe1Twink]

Copied out of my notepad document for Boud(rogue).

1 agi - 2.25crit chance
1crit rating - 1.8crit chance

Gear:

4agi
2crit

22.93% crit chance naked.

With the 4agi, 2crit: 35.41%



100% crit set:

Cloak - 9haste - mats
Feet - 8crit and hit - mats
Hands - 15agi - got
Wrists - 10haste - mats
Legs - 22stam, 8agi - Need Pristine Hide 1x
Chest - 14stam - mats
Shoulders(PvP) - 15AP, 6 PvP resilience - Got it


Stam set:

Shoulders - 14stam - mats
Cloak - 8stam - got it
Chest - 14stam - mats
Wrist - 15stam - mats
Hands - 18stam - Need 4x Heavy Knothide leather
Feet - 7stam & movement speed - 3/8 Large Prismatic Shards, 0/8 Primal Earth
Legs - 22stam, 8agility - Need Pristine Hide 1x


Just put this together, and if anyone's wondering, the "Mats" means that I've got the mats for them, and the rest is obvious. I'll play around with weapon enchants, so they're not listed here.

 

[Whatgoesup]

I'm so happy I still have a leather agil head loom with a stam and dodge chant on it