5.4 Enchants Nerf - 80 Bracket Impact

[Oliks]

So far we've been able to use the cata/mop enchants without any penanlty, but with 5.4 comming a long and all enchants being scaled to a level appropriate amount it could have a turn for the worse, or better, depending on how you look at it..

Someone made this chart: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnBPvCvqWJ3udENtVlVmcjA4Q3ZQWmZKWHE3c201UXc#gid=11
If those numbers are correct, we're looking at:

Windsong from 1500proc to 150.
Synapse springs 480 to 192
Leatherworking bracers: from 500-700 depending to 50-70 depending
Tailoring on cloak: from 4k down to 400

And so on and so on..

What are you thoughts on this?
Also, feel free to point out other enchant nerfs etc, that could have a huge impact on the bracket

 

[Simple]

More nerfs please, 80 needs balancing

 

[Whatgoesup]

So far I'm really liking these changes. Lvl 80 PvP is rediculus and I stopped playing my 80's because of it. This will definiatly make the bracket somewhat more balanced and that would be great. It will diminish some of the solo'ing possibilies, but make it actually challeging again. Only thing I kinda dislike is that I probably won't be able to go to Pandaland anymore and gank 90's, but I prefer proper BG's over that Now this enchant nerf combined with removal of MoP items would be like heaven.

 

[adlib]

So far I'm really liking these changes. Lvl 80 PvP is rediculus and I stopped playing my 80's because of it. This will definiatly make the bracket somewhat more balanced and that would be great. It will diminish some of the solo'ing possibilies, but make it actually challeging again. Only thing I kinda dislike is that I probably won't be able to go to Pandaland anymore and gank 90's, but I prefer proper BG's over that Now this enchant nerf combined with removal of MoP items would be like heaven.

I'm so sick of PvP nerfs intruding on PvE space and vice-versa but I don't even take this as a PvP nerf. How much of an effect could it possibly have on burst?

Not being up to speed on all things involving the game, if they remove MoP items would everyone just level up to 84 instead?

 

[Whatgoesup]

I'm so sick of PvP nerfs intruding on PvE space and vice-versa but I don't even take this as a PvP nerf. How much of an effect could it possibly have on burst?

Not being up to speed on all things involving the game, if they remove MoP items would everyone just level up to 84 instead?

It has a big impact on burst. If you're passive stats are lower (and looking the current scaling, the stats will be a lot lower) you do less damage, thus less burst. Also, if weapon enchants like Dancing Steel always proc on start of combat (unless it's on an ICD), if that goes from 1650 agil/str to 165 agil/str, burst will be lower. All the enchant and gem scaling will amount to lower burst, and lower burst is better.

I personally think that it is fair if solo'ing is nerfed. It is rediculus that an 80 is able to solo a 25-man raid. It's fun, but pretty rediculus.

On the MoP removal note, I'm sure some people will go to 84, but most will probably stay 80, as will I. Also arena will be more balanced and I'm sure more people will queue arena again.

All in all I think that the enchant scaling will have more positive than negative effects.

 

[ReneQT]

This change pretty much makes blacksmithing or engi a better choice then tailoring with the embroidery nerf. Stacking str you could probably come pretty close to the bonus the enchant gives and have it passively..

 

[Oliks]

This change pretty much makes blacksmithing or engi a better choice then tailoring with the embroidery nerf. Stacking str you could probably come pretty close to the bonus the enchant gives and have it passively..

Gems get "nerfed" aswell

 

[ReneQT]

Blizzard just want to see the world burn...

On the plus side, if this change goes live with the resilience changes it'll make arena much more fun and less bursty. In BGs we scale up to 89 anyway so we'll still get the full gem/enchant bonuses.

I'm looking forward to some fun arena's in 5.4

 

[Splosion]

Patch change actually makes BS slightly better than other professions because of the nerfs.

However, 80 PvP is broken because of MoP gear, not gems/enchants. Unless that goes away, it's only going to be slightly less bursty. If every MoP item was made to be 85 or higher, we'd be back to cata damage and things would be (mostly) fine. Healer throughput and hybrids are still an issue though.

 

[twinkheaven]

I just tested out the PTR on my 84 and 80 twinks.....and I HATE what Blizz has done.
Do they know how much gold and time it took to gear them to be Godlike?

It's like having sex with a Victora's secret model everyday and then u have to resort to having sex with an ugly girl since God took the model away. Or driving a Nissan Skyline/Lambo everyday to eventually have to drive a civic.

For example burning primal diamond, now has the same stats as a CATA meta on a 84. If I wanted a frickin cata meta, i would have equipped a cata meta smh.
ALL that gold spent on leatherworking to get +500 strength on bracer and +200 strength on pants now goes to complete SHIT!.

Nessless to say my twinks still hit hard as f**k in PTR, but I feel as if i totally got jipped by Blizz from what I loved to do the most in game.

Is it time for me to go 85 on my 84s????Or should I quit the game in depression is the answer

 

[Aelobin]

Is it time for me to go 85 on my 84s????

85s are nerfed just as much.

 

[twinkheaven]

85s are nerfed just as much.

yeah i looked at the spreadsheet you posted.

However at least at 85 there are arenas and there wont be stupid OP 86/87's in BG's taking advantage of the scaling like they are right now in the 80 bracket with 81 and 82 at 220k+HP.

 

[twinkheaven]

Also the one thing I dont get is why is almost everyone on this board welcoming this change???

Twinks were made to be OVERPOWERED weren't they? Tazik at 70, BIS gear at all brackets, MOP blues at 80.
I feel like the enchant nerf is a huge blow to twinks alike. Sure it becomes "balanced", "less-bursty" but if I wanted that I'd go back on my 90. As a twink I loved getting BIS gear, best enchants, prioritizing and reforging gear to get the maximum bang for what I can make.

I dont get why Blizz is even touching leveling/enchant+gem nerf. It helps us level faster and there is a reason why heirlooms are so popular. If you nerf enchants, for those who have the funds to get good enchants now have to level with more work.

For christ's sake even 10+ years and Blizzard is still changing low level shit every patch, its annoying af.
And funny thing is shield slam is still stupid OP. I think i am going to quit for sure.

 

[Hapsen]

Also the one thing I dont get is why is almost everyone on this board welcoming this change???

Twinks were made to be OVERPOWERED weren't they? Tazik at 70, BIS gear at all brackets, MOP blues at 80.
I feel like the enchant nerf is a huge blow to twinks alike. Sure it becomes "balanced", "less-bursty" but if I wanted that I'd go back on my 90. As a twink I loved getting BIS gear, best enchants, prioritizing and reforging gear to get the maximum bang for what I can make.

I dont get why Blizz is even touching leveling/enchant+gem nerf. It helps us level faster and there is a reason why heirlooms are so popular. If you nerf enchants, for those who have the funds to get good enchants now have to level with more work.

For christ's sake even 10+ years and Blizzard is still changing low level shit every patch, its annoying af.
And funny thing is shield slam is still stupid OP. I think i am going to quit for sure.

1 the reason why they made this change is so that gear'd ppl wuld have less inpact compared to ungeared players in open bg's
2 once upon a time twinks were overpowered gearwise compared to the opponents they were facing, this changed quite a while back with xp in bg's, twinking became about maxing your toon and outplaying other max'd toons. -or pve stuff... ^^
3 when gearing a twink the only items and enchants you have your eyes on are the best ones, after 5.4 there will maby be some changes to what enchants and gems are bis but even then, they will be bis..

i understand that the loss of your stats is a bummer, i know "every one else is allso loosing them" is a kinda sad way of justifying it but you'r twink's will still be outgearing/enchanting/gemming non twinks.

EDIT: engrish

 

[Aelobin]

Twinks were made to be OVERPOWERED weren't they? Tazik at 70, BIS gear at all brackets, MOP blues at 80.
I feel like the enchant nerf is a huge blow to twinks alike. Sure it becomes "balanced", "less-bursty" but if I wanted that I'd go back on my 90. As a twink I loved getting BIS gear, best enchants, prioritizing and reforging gear to get the maximum bang for what I can make.

I dont get why Blizz is even touching leveling/enchant+gem nerf. It helps us level faster and there is a reason why heirlooms are so popular. If you nerf enchants, for those who have the funds to get good enchants now have to level with more work.

I twink because I like to think my time/effort/gold spent gearing isn't going to go to waste when the next tier of end-game content is released.

As for why they nerfed the enchants/professions: I think it's a lot more likely that it's for some unannounced/future character down-levelling feature rather than for balance. If it was for balance, the first thing they'd have fixed would've been the 409s. After that, it would've made more sense to increase the level/ilvl requirements for the enchants instead of making them accessible to all levels.

My predictions:
- They announce a new feature that allows you to temporarily reduce your character level (to play with friends or do old content)
- Mastery and reforging become available at lower levels (otherwise mastery stacked 90s would have a disadvantage when down-levelled)
- 409s get fixed (possibly in a 6.0 item squish)
- All gear gets scaled/capped in BGs and they merge the XP on/off queues again

 

[madhombre]

I just tested out the PTR on my 84 and 80 twinks.....and I HATE what Blizz has done.
Do they know how much gold and time it took to gear them to be Godlike?

It's like having sex with a Victora's secret model everyday and then u have to resort to having sex with an ugly girl since God took the model away. Or driving a Nissan Skyline/Lambo everyday to eventually have to drive a civic.

For example burning primal diamond, now has the same stats as a CATA meta on a 84. If I wanted a frickin cata meta, i would have equipped a cata meta smh.
ALL that gold spent on leatherworking to get +500 strength on bracer and +200 strength on pants now goes to complete SHIT!.

Nessless to say my twinks still hit hard as f**k in PTR, but I feel as if i totally got jipped by Blizz from what I loved to do the most in game.

Is it time for me to go 85 on my 84s????Or should I quit the game in depression is the answer

yes please

 

[Splosion]

I just tested out the PTR on my 84 and 80 twinks.....and I HATE what Blizz has done.
Do they know how much gold and time it took to gear them to be Godlike?

It's like having sex with a Victora's secret model everyday and then u have to resort to having sex with an ugly girl since God took the model away. Or driving a Nissan Skyline/Lambo everyday to eventually have to drive a civic.

The gold required to make MoP geared 80 twinks pales in comparison to the effort required to be BiS in cataclysm. I liked using my shadowmourne. We asked for the gear to be nerfed in the beta, but they hit enchants instead.

Tbh I'm more annoyed about the leatherworking change than losing enchants (which cost next to nothing to get anyway).

 

[madhombre]

now we only need 65% base resilience and we could give 80s pvp a try again

 

[wuvluv]

Aelo, Splosion. Do you guys think solo'ing ICC 25 will still be possible next patch on blood dk/prot pally? Just wondering because I was going to make a prot pally 80 twink to do this sort of thing as I find it fun. Thanks.

 

[Oliks]

Aelo, Splosion. Do you guys think solo'ing ICC 25 will still be possible next patch on blood dk/prot pally? Just wondering because I was going to make a prot pally 80 twink to do this sort of thing as I find it fun. Thanks.

Blood deathknights are the best soloing class now that the extreme vengeance buff was removed.
Also, you can tag people like "@ name" without the space.

Aelobin Splosion