5.4 Enchants Nerf - 80 Bracket Impact

[wuvluv]

Sounds good [MENTION=2477]Oliks[/MENTION]



Dk it is.. assuming the enchants don't murder soloing TOO much.. right?

Losing 450~ strength to bracers is a lot of parry along with other enchants but is it going to be too much? I'd like to see [MENTION=772]Aelobin[/MENTION] [MENTION=9944]Splosion[/MENTION] do a PTR solo vid on the 5.4 PTR

 

[Oliks]

Sounds good Oliks



Dk it is.. assuming the enchants don't murder soloing TOO much.. right?

Losing 450~ strength to bracers is a lot of parry along with other enchants but is it going to be too much? I'd like to see Aelobin Splosion do a PTR solo vid on the 5.4 PTR

Yes 500str is a lot of parry and i doubt deathknights will be able to cap avoidance without that and the LW leg enchant..
But i don't really know a lot about soloing on deathknights since i've never done.

But, 5.4 also opens up for new enchants aswell which people seem to forget, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[wuvluv]

Yes 500str is a lot of parry and i doubt deathknights will be able to cap avoidance without that and the LW leg enchant..
But i don't really know a lot about soloing on deathknights since i've never done.

But, 5.4 also opens up for new enchants aswell which people seem to forget, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I think by regemming dodge instead of strength they can still meet the avoidance cap. But i'm not sure about the dps check needed.. but 500 str .. how much parry is that even? I don't think they should touch profession enchants :/..


Riposte is a new passive ability learned by Blood Death Knights at level 76. When the Death Knight dodges or parries any attack, they gain 75% of their Parry and Dodge as additional bonus to Critical Strike for 20 seconds.

Nevermind. Dks aren't going to have any problems soloing.

 

[Splosion]

Blood deathknights are the best soloing class now that the extreme vengeance buff was removed.

Since when? If I point you at the herald videos Aelo & I have done (3man, 2man), you'll notice how we didn't need a healer with paladins. Dranah was even able to straight dps whilst I was tanking on the 3man, whilst having to spam when Aelo was. Dks are still great, but paladins are leagues ahead at 80, thanks to not scaling that much from weapon damage, and scaling way faster with haste.

I think by regemming dodge instead of strength they can still meet the avoidance cap. But i'm not sure about the dps check needed.. but 500 str .. how much parry is that even? I don't think they should touch profession enchants :/.

Strength is still by far the best stat for avoidance at level 80. Leatherworking was in the region of 10% str from bracer enchant, plus another 7% from leg enchant. Avoidance stacking was never really my thing though. Pretty sure the only boss a paladin would need it for would be yogg0 25man, but GL getting past p2 (I've yet to try some ideas, but they're ideas at best)

25M bosses in ICC will still be possible in 5.4, leatherworking is nothing compared to the MoP items. If I'm going to miss anything with the changes it's going to be the stamina from leatherworking. Alchemy is still nearly as good, and chances are the best alternative will be Engineering (for tinkers) or BSmithing for the stats.

 

[Oliks]

Since when? If I point you at the herald videos Aelo & I have done (3man, 2man), you'll notice how we didn't need a healer with paladins. Dranah was even able to straight dps whilst I was tanking on the 3man, whilst having to spam when Aelo was. Dks are still great, but paladins are leagues ahead at 80, thanks to not scaling that much from weapon damage, and scaling way faster with haste.
.

Are paladins able to cap avoidance?
If not i'd still say blood Dks are the best at soloing, since they can kill anything that doesn't use spells.
If paladins can' cap it, then i take it back.

Also, i talked about soloing and you linked 2man and 3man clips.

 

[Splosion]

Are paladins able to cap avoidance?
If not i'd still say blood Dks are the best at soloing, since they can kill anything that doesn't use spells.
If paladins can' cap it, then i take it back.

Also, i talked about soloing and you linked 2man and 3man clips.

2man and 3man clips referenced the survival of a dk vs a paladin.

Could take Aelo's Saurfang 25H kill vs mine. One of us required avoidance cap for that boss, the other didn't. Take a guess (for a moment) which class that was.

Referring to avoidance cap, Which notable bosses that don't use spells also don't use unavoidable melee attacks (Algalon, XT, Lich King, Festergut, etc etc). If you're talking about patchwerk (which is likely the only example of such a boss), he's a huge joke with just the gear leap, so I don't see how that's really a valid point. Avoidance has realistically only been used for gimmicky fights (Only bosses I've ever considered it on were yogg0 25, XT-002 25man (hardmode post berserk), and BQL 25H (which requires tactics a paladin isn't even capable of). Every other boss I've done since the bug was "fixed" (separate issue again), has been with ~60% avoidance, maybe 80% if I'm using str enchants.

The only thing that potentially makes DKs better than paladins currently (thanks to haste scaling and paladin survival being extremely strong) is control undead when used with a plague scientist. Talking about bypassing enrage timers is a little...silly imho, but if it's the only way to kill a boss, then so be it.

 

[wuvluv]

2man and 3man clips referenced the survival of a dk vs a paladin.

Could take Aelo's Saurfang 25H kill vs mine. One of us required avoidance cap for that boss, the other didn't. Take a guess (for a moment) which class that was.

Referring to avoidance cap, Which notable bosses that don't use spells also don't use unavoidable melee attacks (Algalon, XT, Lich King, Festergut, etc etc). If you're talking about patchwerk (which is likely the only example of such a boss), he's a huge joke with just the gear leap, so I don't see how that's really a valid point. Avoidance has realistically only been used for gimmicky fights (Only bosses I've ever considered it on were yogg0 25, XT-002 25man (hardmode post berserk), and BQL 25H (which requires tactics a paladin isn't even capable of). Every other boss I've done since the bug was "fixed" (separate issue again), has been with ~60% avoidance, maybe 80% if I'm using str enchants.

The only thing that potentially makes DKs better than paladins currently (thanks to haste scaling and paladin survival being extremely strong) is control undead when used with a plague scientist. Talking about bypassing enrage timers is a little...silly imho, but if it's the only way to kill a boss, then so be it.

What's your thoughts on riposte next patch? Will that not give DKs far, far superior damage over pallys? (100% crit 24/7)?

 

[Aelobin]

I'd say Paladins are stronger than DKs atm because they scale insanely well with vengeance (Sacred Shield / Seal of Insight) and their highest damage ability has its cooldown reset by avoidance. The only time DKs come out on top is when the boss has a tight enrage timer and lacks a decent number of melee adds with it (espcially in ICC due to the plague scientist buff), or niche fights that require a pet or 124% avoidance.

Riposte won't have much of an effect unless you're in avoidance stacked gear (which I rarely used) since the crit chance is based on dodge/parry rating and not % (so str->parry has no effect).

Haven't tested any 80 soloing on the PTR (kinda losing interest in WoW and much prefer soloing at 85 anyway). The enchant nerfs and vengeance cap (30% of max health in 10man, 50% in 25man) will ofc lower the amount of stuff we can solo but I think both classes should still be able to get avoidance capped vs a WotLK boss (109%).

 

[wuvluv]

I'd say Paladins are stronger than DKs atm because they scale insanely well with vengeance (Sacred Shield / Seal of Insight) and their highest damage ability has its cooldown reset by avoidance. The only time DKs come out on top is when the boss has a tight enrage timer and lacks a decent number of melee adds with it (espcially in ICC due to the plague scientist buff), or niche fights that require a pet or 124% avoidance.

Riposte won't have much of an effect unless you're in avoidance stacked gear (which I rarely used) since the crit chance is based on dodge/parry rating and not % (so str->parry has no effect).

Haven't tested any 80 soloing on the PTR (kinda losing interest in WoW and much prefer soloing at 85 anyway). The enchant nerfs and vengeance cap (30% of max health in 10man, 50% in 25man) will ofc lower the amount of stuff we can solo but I think both classes should still be able to get avoidance capped vs a WotLK boss (109%).

Ah, so it isn't % its rather rating. That's unfortunate but also a good thing. I also didn't know they are nerfing vengeance again. Hmm.. decisions decisions. Can't decide whether I want to roll prot pally or dk.'

I hope the enchant nerfs don't make soloing higher level stuff impossible, although it's starting to look like it is going to. Vengeance cap will hurt pallys survivability a lot I assume.

 

[Splosion]

It's still plenty, since you can get close to 140k hp inside ICC even without the stamina enchants, which means ~50k or near to that vengeance. Anything past that and you're getting nearly 1shotted anyways. Saurfang 25HC will probably be possible, but will require more avoidance and a large amount of aoe (I usually try and avoid AoE on that boss because lolvengeance).

 

[Garden]

The gold required to make MoP geared 80 twinks pales in comparison to the effort required to be BiS in cataclysm. I liked using my shadowmourne. We asked for the gear to be nerfed in the beta, but they hit enchants instead.

Tbh I'm more annoyed about the leatherworking change than losing enchants (which cost next to nothing to get anyway).

I think I spent about 10k to level LWing on my 80 twink...it was also a LOT of effort buying stuff from both ally and horde AH and hitting the neutral AH numerous times a day to get the materials I needed. My skinner was on a different server and I really really didn't want to do that again. So I spent HOURS obtaining all the leather to get lwing near maxed, and then 6 months of DMF +5 to get to max.

I have waited to change profs on my 85 twink...I took an 85 tradeskill mule and twinked it out...it has maxed enchanting and JCing, and most Cata JC recipes which I don't want to give up without a huge gain. I'll see how 5.4 affects what I have atm. (This is for an 85 DK twink)

 

[Tap]

I think I spent about 10k to level LWing on my 80 twink...it was also a LOT of effort buying stuff from both ally and horde AH and hitting the neutral AH numerous times a day to get the materials I needed. My skinner was on a different server and I really really didn't want to do that again. So I spent HOURS obtaining all the leather to get lwing near maxed, and then 6 months of DMF +5 to get to max.

I have waited to change profs on my 85 twink...I took an 85 tradeskill mule and twinked it out...it has maxed enchanting and JCing, and most Cata JC recipes which I don't want to give up without a huge gain. I'll see how 5.4 affects what I have atm. (This is for an 85 DK twink)

LW is probably the hardest prof to lvl of all. I remember there being so little knothide leather on ah, and the few that were was severely overpriced I had to go farm it myself. Then when MoP hit I had fun paying the outrageous prices for exotic leather and magnificent hides.

 

[Hapsen]

LW is probably the hardest prof to lvl of all. I remember there being so little knothide leather on ah, and the few that were was severely overpriced I had to go farm it myself. Then when MoP hit I had fun paying the outrageous prices for exotic leather and magnificent hides.

its so easy to farm yourself..

 

[adlib]

LW is probably the hardest prof to lvl of all. I remember there being so little knothide leather on ah, and the few that were was severely overpriced I had to go farm it myself. Then when MoP hit I had fun paying the outrageous prices for exotic leather and magnificent hides.

You can farm 15 stacks of knothide per hour in Karazhan and hit reset timers.

 

[Lil Throwed]

Sorry all. The exact opposite is happening in the lower brackets. Way more damage than we all need.